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Ortiz Brothers

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  • Ortiz Brothers

    Did anyone see this video? Wait until the top 3 turn for home and look what happens. How did this not get caught by the stewards? How is this tolerated? You can obviously see elder Ortiz intentionally steering Carom in to Paco's horse on the final turn Not once, but multiple times.

    that was downright dirty and just plain dangerous
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ture=emb_title

  • #2
    Unfortunately this is not the first time.
    www.laurienberenson.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Classy comment from the trainer and co-owner of the second place finisher in response to the article on Paulick Report:

      As a trainer and co-owner (my son Nick) of Shazier all we can do is move on, Its horse racing and Saturday we fell on the short end of the stick.
      My dream was win that race just because the love and respect that I have for Allen Jerkens.
      The Ortiz brothers are amazing jockeys and gentlemen in every way.
      Shazier ran a great race and came out the race healthy, that’s what the important thing is here.
      Congratulations to Todd and Jose.


      https://www.paulickreport.com/news/t...ok-for-racing/
      www.laurienberenson.com

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by LaurieB View Post
        Classy comment from the trainer and co-owner of the second place finisher in response to the article on Paulick Report:

        [/COLOR]

        https://www.paulickreport.com/news/t...ok-for-racing/
        Yes very classy. Have to say; if I was Paco Lopez, Mr Ortiz would be pulling my riding whip out of his face after the finish.

        I understand Paco's horse eventually beat Ortiz on his mount after the interference which is likely why stewards did not react but there is no question in my mind that type of behavior put 2 horses in jeopardy and cost Paco's horse a potential win.

        Paco's horse is pretty classy. Despite the intense interference from the Ortiz horse; Paco's horse held his ground and barely bobbled. They should all be luck Paco's horse didn't end up in the rail. scary,.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

          Yes very classy. Have to say; if I was Paco Lopez, Mr Ortiz would be pulling my riding whip out of his face after the finish.

          I understand Paco's horse eventually beat Ortiz on his mount after the interference which is likely why stewards did not react but there is no question in my mind that type of behavior put 2 horses in jeopardy and cost Paco's horse a potential win.

          Paco's horse is pretty classy. Despite the intense interference from the Ortiz horse; Paco's horse held his ground and barely bobbled. They should all be luck Paco's horse didn't end up in the rail. scary,.
          You have to watch the head-on view. How do you know the stewards did not react? I guarantee they looked very closely at the event and will probably discuss whether or not they will hold a hearing and possibly discipline Irad, if they have not done so already. They meet regularly to review issues and hold hearings. They raced Sunday, and are dark today and were dark yesterday. Tomorrow is New Years Day and they are racing. It’s possible they’ve already called him in and nobody knows about it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

            You have to watch the head-on view. How do you know the stewards did not react? I guarantee they looked very closely at the event and will probably discuss whether or not they will hold a hearing and possibly discipline Irad, if they have not done so already. They meet regularly to review issues and hold hearings. They raced Sunday, and are dark today and were dark yesterday. Tomorrow is New Years Day and they are racing. It’s possible they’ve already called him in and nobody knows about it.
            The stewards should have put up the inquiry sign right after the race. They could have chosen to not taken any action at that time, but that’s how the ball should get rolling.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by punchy View Post

              The stewards should have put up the inquiry sign right after the race. They could have chosen to not taken any action at that time, but that’s how the ball should get rolling.
              No, it’s not. The stewards can review any action on or off the track regarding a licensee.

              Comment


              • #8
                I haven't heard an update but the action did not effect the outcome of the race. They could still sanction him later.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  I was expecting something to come from it as far as sanctions. Not to change the outcome of the race but to maintain the integrity of the sport and enforce the safety aspect. There was little regard for either horse's safety that day.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
                    I was expecting something to come from it as far as sanctions. Not to change the outcome of the race but to maintain the integrity of the sport and enforce the safety aspect. There was little regard for either horse's safety that day.
                    The incident happened barely a week ago with a holiday bundled in that week...

                    Post-race reviews may take a few weeks to actually be published if action is taken.
                    When you start to observe, you become more effective... your movements soften, you see more, you are more available to becoming a team member. Be an Observer first, a Handler second.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post

                      The incident happened barely a week ago with a holiday bundled in that week...

                      Post-race reviews may take a few weeks to actually be published if action is taken.
                      I wasn't saying I was expecting something to come from it immediately. Most post-race decisions like this often take some time.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                        Yes very classy. Have to say; if I was Paco Lopez, Mr Ortiz would be pulling my riding whip out of his face after the finish.,.
                        It's a good thing that you aren't a jockey or otherwise involved in racing. Violence solves nothing and certainly doesn't help the sport.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by skydy View Post

                          It's a good thing that you aren't a jockey or otherwise involved in racing. Violence solves nothing and certainly doesn't help the sport.
                          Well, feeding your stick to another jockey right after the race would certainly not require much replay of the race, contemplation or review of the complete situation before setting you down.
                          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I watched the replay multiple times, and I didn't see a jockey intentionally steer a horse into another horse. I saw a tired horse not in the bridle under a lot of right handed whip pressure lugging into towards the rail because he was *done.* If I were going to criticize the jock, it would be for either 1.) not switching his whip hand to straighten the horse up a little or 2.) continuing to pressure a tired horse.

                            But that's just my smurfy opinion.

                            What do the actual racetrackers think?
                            Last edited by McGurk; Jan. 7, 2020, 10:14 AM.
                            The plural of anecdote is not data.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think he tugged the horse pretty hard to maintain his position. Whether or not that was necessary is irrelevant, but he did not seem to come in on the inside horse. BUT I have not seen the head on, which would show a lane change by either horse, so I'm not completely vested in my position. The jockey's JOB is to get the best possible finish for the owner. Keeping a horse boxed in that you know is going to finish in front of you is part of that JOB. If anything, the inside rider was aggressively trying to go outside the front runner.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post
                                I think he tugged the horse pretty hard to maintain his position. Whether or not that was necessary is irrelevant, but he did not seem to come in on the inside horse. BUT I have not seen the head on, which would show a lane change by either horse, so I'm not completely vested in my position. The jockey's JOB is to get the best possible finish for the owner. Keeping a horse boxed in that you know is going to finish in front of you is part of that JOB. If anything, the inside rider was aggressively trying to go outside the front runner.
                                I watched the head on multiple times on my RTN subscription. The only thing that bothered me about Irad was that finishing the turn he was hanging on the inside pretty hard. Makes me wonder if Lopez turned Irad's horse trying to get out of the box he had allowed himself to be trapped in but that was not determinable in the head on views. Also if one follows the harrow tracks, Irad's horse pretty much stayed in line and Lopez was the one who came out a couple of paths in the stretch. It was rough race riding, but I feel that Irad was trying to keep the other horse boxed in to improve his chances of holding second. Just my opinion.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I finally watched the video... and from some posts here I was expecting a full on Head Play/Broker's Tip brawl.
                                  Not even close.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                                    No, it’s not. The stewards can review any action on or off the track regarding a licensee.
                                    If they had put up the inquiry sign tho, they could have spoken to the riders on the phone right after the race and established a record. Waiting to investigate means the rider’s memories aren’t fresh, they have an opportunity to manufacture their responses, and their attorneys will be standing next to them when they talk to the stewards.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by punchy View Post

                                      If they had put up the inquiry sign tho, they could have spoken to the riders on the phone right after the race and established a record. Waiting to investigate means the rider’s memories aren’t fresh, they have an opportunity to manufacture their responses, and their attorneys will be standing next to them when they talk to the stewards.
                                      There was no reason to delay in making the race official since there would be no change in order of finish. No point in making everyone stand around unnecessarily waiting for the trophy presentation that usually happens with a stakes race plus holding up millions of dollars in payouts. They had video, they watch the replays before talking to the riders, and they would always hold a hearing before suspending a rider, so the rider always has a chance to be represented. These riders are professionals and they had their explanations decided before they pulled up. And do you know for a fact that they did not call down to the clerk of scales and have the riders on the phone as soon as they weighed out? That is what usually happens when the stewards see questionable riding.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by McGurk View Post
                                        I watched the replay multiple times, and I didn't see a jockey intentionally steer a horse into another horse. I saw a tired horse not in the bridle under a lot of right handed whip pressure lugging into towards the rail because he was *done.* If I were going to criticize the jock, it would be for either 1.) not switching his whip hand to straighten the horse up a little or 2.) continuing to pressure a tired horse.

                                        But that's just my smurfy opinion.

                                        What do the actual racetrackers think?
                                        Are you blind? You see the jockey on the horse 7 looks at horse 1 (at 1:53) and PULLS his horse's head right into #1 horse. The jockey of #7 LEANS into horse #1. This was intentional and it could have ended up in a nasty accident.

                                        "Common sense is so rare nowadays, it should be classified as a super power."-Craig Bear Laubscher

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