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Daredevil and Super Saver to Turkey

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    Original Poster

    #21
    Originally posted by JJ'sLuckyTrain View Post
    Breeding to race is quite liberating.

    I can see why Daredevil left -- he covered 20 mares in 2019 down from well over a hundred a year the previous years. And his offspring are not showing up yet. But Super Saver?

    And LaurieB is right, the real losers in this are the folks with weanlings by these stallions that are bound for the sales. And those with mares carrying their foals.
    The number of mares bred to stallions in their third and fourth years has always dropped off pretty dramatically. Breeders who didn't jump in early then usually wait to see how the horses' offspring will run. Top sire Into Mischief had something like 100 foals in his first four crops. Then they came out running and put him on the map.

    But the flight to new stallions has become even more frantic recently. Now even second year horses are shied away from. This revolving door philosophy has stallions in and out of Kentucky before they even have a fair chance to prove themselves. It used to be that I would go see all the new stallions every year, maybe 10-15. Now there are twice that many and, for most of them, I don't bother. Because chances are, they won't be here long.
    www.laurienberenson.com

    Comment


      #22
      Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
      I wonder if our current, worsening predisposition for only valuing offspring from top 5 sires and unproven sires will ultimately be the decline of the dominance of the American TB worldwide.
      Had another thought. American TBs are really only available to US based mares. To get access to top quality producing studs, countries like these can either ship the mares to the stud at 7-10k each way plus additional quarantine and testing requirements or buy/lease the stud and ship him to them. Pretty obvious choice there. IMO.
      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

      Comment


        #23
        Dramedy is off to Saudia Arabia. We should just make a "Stallions/Mares exported" thread.

        https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...n-saudi-arabia

        Comment


          #24
          Originally posted by Vivace View Post
          Dramedy is off to Saudia Arabia. We should just make a "Stallions/Mares exported" thread.

          https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...n-saudi-arabia
          Just read that article on BH- he is a half to Bluegrass Cat- ALSO sold/exported. He may not have been in KY, but he started there! Great looking horse.
          When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
          www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
          http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by halo View Post
            Not just Kentucky....Uncaptured disappeared from Ocala Stud's roster.

            With how many millions and millions of dollars Super Saver made , I have to wonder what does a horse have to do to stay home? Is the business so brutal now that you have to squeeze every single dollar out of a horse? I guess I answered my own question.
            Honorable Dillon disappeared from NY this fall as well. Ownership wont disclose where he went.

            Comment


              #26
              Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

              Honorable Dillon disappeared from NY this fall as well. Ownership wont disclose where he went.
              Why should they? No requirement to disclose private sales via public announcement in any breed. Unless you are suggesting he was kidnapped or smuggled out of the country it’s nobody’s business.
              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by findeight View Post

                Why should they? No requirement to disclose private sales via public announcement in any breed. Unless you are suggesting he was kidnapped or smuggled out of the country it’s nobody’s business.
                I'm not going to argue with you. I just posted that HD was sold and ownership did not disclose where he went. That is all. Carry on.

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                  I'm not going to argue with you. I just posted that HD was sold and ownership did not disclose where he went. That is all. Carry on.
                  No, you said he "disappeared," as in POOF gone. People in the breeding business buy and sell horses constantly. It never stops. That is how they get money to run their businesses. Their product is "horse" and to obtain money to pay operating expenses, the product needs to be converted into currency that is acceptable in the marketplace. Do you have the slightest understanding of running a business? You are all cloak and dagger whenever a horse gets sold, as if it happens on the black market or it's illegal. People sell horses. People buy horses. It's not immoral or unethical. Good grief, we'd all be in prison if it were.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                    No, you said he "disappeared," as in POOF gone. People in the breeding business buy and sell horses constantly. It never stops. That is how they get money to run their businesses. Their product is "horse" and to obtain money to pay operating expenses, the product needs to be converted into currency that is acceptable in the marketplace. Do you have the slightest understanding of running a business? You are all cloak and dagger whenever a horse gets sold, as if it happens on the black market or it's illegal. People sell horses. People buy horses. It's not immoral or unethical. Good grief, we'd all be in prison if it were.
                    he did disappear. no one really knows were he actually went. i make a living off of buying and selling horses. carry on.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Honorable Dillion was sent to Uruguay

                      Comment


                        #31
                        Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
                        i make a living off of buying and selling horses. carry on.
                        Really? Didn't you have a long complaint on Off Topic about your job recently? It doesn't sound like a barn job.

                        https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f...work-coworkers

                        "I work for a very large corporation at one of their plants. While we are a large corporation; we have a very tight knit group at the plant and it has always been this way. I am a female and in my mid 30's. I have worked here for 15 years and have been a long term employee through many changes."

                        Comment


                          #32
                          Originally posted by LaurieB View Post

                          I feel worse for the breeders who just bred to one of those stallions earlier this year. Super Saver bred 136 mares in 2019. That's a lot of people looking at pregnant mares and knowing they'll be trying to sell offspring of a horse who's long gone.
                          This exact thing happened to me when I bred my mare to Declaration of War for a 2019 foal. Coolmore sold him to Japan, and I was instantly a bit stressed. My goal is to breed the best turf horses I can, keep the fillies and sell the colts. I have one mare so far, so I am a little, itty bitty breeder. But, you have to start somewhere!

                          So, right away when the sale became known, I was hoping for a filly! Of course, she had a colt. It all ended up just fine in the end, and I did not take the bath I thought I would. I think that is, at least in part, because Dec of War has really done very well as a sire (with excellent U.S. and worldwide results), even though he is no longer in the U.S. But, I did go with a first time stallion (Oscar Performance) that I am very excited about for the next go round, and one I think will stay in Kentucky for the long haul. I hope I'm right! Even if I'm not, I'm excited to see what he will produce.

                          In the end, this is the nature of the game. And, as long as it is done ethically and without bringing harm to any horse, I do not begrudge anyone making money on a horse - that's the business.
                          Last edited by nelson; Dec. 3, 2019, 01:04 PM. Reason: Clarification

                          Comment


                            #33
                            Originally posted by nelson View Post

                            This exact thing happened to me when I bred my mare to Declaration of War for a 2019 foal. Coolmore sold him to Japan, and I was instantly a bit stressed. My goal is to breed the best turf horses I can, keep the fillies and sell the colts. I have one mare so far, so I am a little, itty bitty breeder. But, you have to start somewhere!

                            So, right away when the sale became known, I was hoping for a filly! Of course, she had a colt. It all ended up just fine in the end, and I did not take the bath I thought I would. I think that is, at least in part, because Dec of War has really done very well as a sire (with excellent U.S. and worldwide results), even though he is no longer in the U.S. But, I did go with a first time stallion (Oscar Performance) that I am very excited about for the next go round, and one I think will stay in Kentucky for the long haul. I hope I'm right! Even if I'm not, I'm excited to see what he will produce.

                            In the end, this is the nature of the game. And, as long as it is done ethically and without bringing harm to any horse, I do not begrudge anyone making money on a horse - that's the business.
                            I thought Declaration of War was only in Japan for the 2019 season?

                            ETA to your last point - if no one were making any profit, there wouldn't be a horse business! This is one thing the Chromies refuse to even consider, much less get a grip on. Taylor Made isn't a petting zoo. There's the KHP and Old Friends if they want that experience (both venues are more than worth the trip).
                            Last edited by Mara; Dec. 3, 2019, 01:53 PM.

                            Comment


                              #34
                              I'm ignorant.

                              Why would a stallion being exported potentially lower the value of a foal? And why more so a colt than a filly?

                              Comment


                                #35
                                And here goes another one...

                                https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...to-south-korea

                                These are relatively nice horses, who are siring some winners. The rest of the world sure likes our "seconds"....
                                When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
                                www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
                                http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

                                Comment


                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                                  Really? Didn't you have a long complaint on Off Topic about your job recently? It doesn't sound like a barn job.

                                  https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f...work-coworkers

                                  "I work for a very large corporation at one of their plants. While we are a large corporation; we have a very tight knit group at the plant and it has always been this way. I am a female and in my mid 30's. I have worked here for 15 years and have been a long term employee through many changes."
                                  Just because I have a day job doesn't mean I don't make most of my living off of another endeavor. No different than many in the TB industry. carry on.

                                  Comment

                                    Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by endlessclimb View Post
                                    I'm ignorant.

                                    Why would a stallion being exported potentially lower the value of a foal? And why more so a colt than a filly?
                                    A significant part of the TB foal crop is sold (and sometimes sold again) before the horse is old enough to race. And perception has a big effect on commercial value.

                                    A stallion that is struggling but still being supported by its farm (with mares, advertising, and a stall in the stallion barn) has a chance to turn things around. A stallion that's sold out of the country is, to all appearances, a horse whose own farm has given up on it. Potential buyers (of weanlings and yearlings) usually then follow suit.

                                    As for colt v. filly, many people who breed to race keep their fillies (who can later be added to their broodmare band, or will have residual value at a sale) and sell the colts. Colts are generally more popular with buyers anyway (because everyone is hoping to buy a KY Derby horse.) That part is just personal preference.
                                    www.laurienberenson.com

                                    Comment

                                      Original Poster

                                      #38
                                      Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                                      Just because I have a day job doesn't mean I don't make most of my living off of another endeavor. No different than many in the TB industry. carry on.
                                      You do know we are carrying on quite happily with or without your permission, right?
                                      www.laurienberenson.com

                                      Comment


                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by LaurieB View Post

                                        You do know we are carrying on quite happily with or without your permission, right?
                                        actually I do, thanks for asking. cheers.

                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                                          Just because I have a day job doesn't mean I don't make most of my living off of another endeavor. No different than many in the TB industry. carry on.
                                          But it's not buying and selling horses, is it? You are stressed at work, you want your own place, and you want a better car. And all this pretending you do has to make it worse, since you probably are not tracking what you say on one thread or another. Nobody on here is living a charmed life. It's hard work, and people come and go, and horses come and go, and money comes and goes. I don't think anyone in the horse business will call it anything other than blood, sweat and tears and uncountable hours in the barn and in the saddle, and usually less money coming in than going out. Most of us do it for love and loose screws, not because it's hugely profitable. Even me - Miss 40% - did not win a race all year (but it's not over yet and if I win one it will put me at 50% i still have hope!!!).
                                          Last edited by Palm Beach; Dec. 3, 2019, 05:30 PM.

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