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Bodemeister heading to Turkey

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  • #41
    Originally posted by skydy View Post
    How does a stallion "garnish a book of mares"?
    With parsley, of course!

    (I'll show myself out).

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by Mara View Post

      With parsley, of course!

      (I'll show myself out).
      www.laurienberenson.com

      Comment


      • #43
        Will agree with the observation there is a lack of genetic diversity in the breed. Maybe they should send some similarly bred stallions overseas, especially if they have younger offspring better then they were....oh...wait....that’s what you were complaining about...
        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #44
          Originally posted by LaurieB View Post


          are you insinuating that the entire industry is based on the 38 stallions with books of 100+ mares? Not the case. the majority of the industry is composed of stallions supporting smaller books. How they make money, I don't know.

          Findeight; perhaps back at the turn of the century when Lexington first became a TB-town it was selected for those reasons. Currently, land and farm prices are quite extravagant if you are looking to move there and have property and the buildings t support a working equine business. Looking at several million in pocket change for a good operation to support a business. but if you're looking to be the backyard person with a few horses, small barn and 11-20 acres you can find it for 500,000 - 1 million depending on how fancy you want it. House prices on no land are pretty expensive in Lexington ands taxes are right up there with some of the costliest in the country. Over $5000 property tax on a house that sits on .28 acres.... yea... that's affordable.

          Comment


          • #45
            Suppose that depends on what county or within what city limits you are in.
            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
              Looking at several million in pocket change for a good operation to support a business. but if you're looking to be the backyard person with a few horses, small barn and 11-20 acres you can find it for 500,000 - 1 million depending on how fancy you want it.
              Ummm... you can double or triple that in this area. 11 acres like that for $500,000? That is not even close to reality here - it would be an extreme bargain. My BO sold the neighboring property with a big arena, 32 stall barn with barn apartment, 3 bedroom house and cross-fenced 10 acres as a fixer upper (functional but needed work and upgrades) for 2.1 million. A fixer upper. And that was 5 years ago. Prices have only gone up since. New owners fixed some things - and now it would easily be another million and it would not be on the market for long.

              So yeah - the Lexington area sounds a helluva lot cheaper than the east side of Puget Sound.


              Comment


              • #47
                Me in blue...

                Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
                I couldn't care less what Winstar does or what their business model is.

                Ummm... yes, you do. You have made that very clear.

                I wasn't upset about anything LaurieB. Go back to my original post in this thread. I simply posted that Bode was sent to Turkey. And ya'all jumped on my like sharks in a minnow pond.

                ??? You jump on everyone else. You sneer. You lecture. You revel in your "expertise" and usually treat the input of others with contempt and disdain. When most of your posts are in that vein, suggesting that your post about Bodemeister being sent to Turkey was simply an innocent observation is a bit hard to digest...

                Comment


                • #48
                  I pay 2700 a year in property taxes about 80 mi north of Lex. on a “ landominium” ( which is a condo including the land it sits on and out 10’). 5k on a house sitting on 1/4 acre sounds lovely. Where are you comparing with that to make it seem expensive?
                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
                    Daredevil, while a beautiful stallion, only booked 21 mares in 2019.
                    I will confess that MEGO when the long list of stallions made its appearance but this particular stallion caught my attention with the use of 'beautiful' attached to him.

                    Me? I'm a neophyte, I admit it, and yeah, looks can and do catch my attention.

                    However, if i was looking for a boy to meet my girl, beauty would have nothing to do with my selection... I'd be more interested in pedigree, conformation, temperament, movement (in no particular order).

                    Still waiting for the answer to the Bodemeister question (and yes, his get often catch my attention on the track because they are quite fancy looking).. but fancy isn't what the track is looking for - that's the after-care market.
                    Maybe the reason I love animals so much is because the only time they have broken my heart is when they've crossed that rainbow bridge

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                      are you insinuating that the entire industry is based on the 38 stallions with books of 100+ mares? Not the case. the majority of the industry is composed of stallions supporting smaller books. How they make money, I don't know.

                      Findeight; perhaps back at the turn of the century when Lexington first became a TB-town it was selected for those reasons. Currently, land and farm prices are quite extravagant if you are looking to move there and have property and the buildings t support a working equine business. Looking at several million in pocket change for a good operation to support a business. but if you're looking to be the backyard person with a few horses, small barn and 11-20 acres you can find it for 500,000 - 1 million depending on how fancy you want it. House prices on no land are pretty expensive in Lexington ands taxes are right up there with some of the costliest in the country. Over $5000 property tax on a house that sits on .28 acres.... yea... that's affordable.

                      I don't know why you continue to make things up and insist that they are right when the facts are so readily available.

                      1,134 U.S. stallions bred mares in 2019. (fact)
                      The estimated foal crop for 2020 is ~20,000 foals (fact)
                      The top TB 68 stallions, each of whom who bred at least 120 mares bred 10,021 mares total (fact)
                      The top 68 stallions (6%) will produce more than 50% of the 2020 foal crop (fact)

                      Unlike you, I will cite my sources:
                      https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...wn-3-5-in-2019

                      http://www.jockeyclub.com/default.as...RMB&letter=all


                      Fwiw, my husband and I have lived in 4 states and 5 towns/cities over the last 40 years. The Lexington area is by far the most affordable with regard to property value and taxes.
                      www.laurienberenson.com

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
                        ...

                        Findeight; perhaps back at the turn of the century when Lexington first became a TB-town it was selected for those reason....
                        Didn't think it had changed so dramatically since the turn of the century 19 years ago...

                        ETA when I say Lexington, not referring to the Lex city limits or evenexclusively Fayette County. Just the surrounding area outside those lines where residents still say they live in the Lexington area because thats where they work and shop and non locals will understand where they are.

                        Many farms, mega sized or small, are located outside of those lines in Midway, Georgetown, Versailles, Paris and others considered “ Lexington”, Would think a well connected, long time area resident would be aware of that.
                        Last edited by findeight; Oct. 27, 2019, 05:56 PM.
                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                          The fact of the matter is that the entire industry is truly supported by those small book stallions; even in KY.
                          I want to revisit this quote. Snaffle, can you please elaborate on why you believe this to be true? Because that is not my experience AT ALL.

                          I send my cheap mares to small book stallions, because those are generally the only ones I can afford. The breeding farms have allowed me to breed to these small book stallions for a fraction of their already-low advertised fees. On more than one occasion, they have completely waived the fee for me "just because." No one makes money off the endeavor, except maybe the vet, who charges me just as much for all the necessary pre- & post-breeding work as they do for blue hen going to a top 5 stallion. My horses live at home, I haul them to the shed myself, and I don't have anything worth consigning later on down the road.

                          I am always blown away that I still get treated like royalty when everyone knows darn well that they're not making a dime off of me. If it wasn't for the successful stallions on their rosters, these farms wouldn't be able to accommodate someone like me or offer their generosity. Yet they do, and do so for no good reason other than love of their horses and the sport.

                          It's a little harder for someone like me now that I'm back in MD because all of the breeding farms are struggling just as much as me. They don't have generosity to spare like they do in KY, by no fault of their own. We are supporting the industry by participation, but most of us aren't contributing revenue to speak of.
                          Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                            are you insinuating that the entire industry is based on the 38 stallions with books of 100+ mares? Not the case. the majority of the industry is composed of stallions supporting smaller books. How they make money, I don't know.

                            Findeight; perhaps back at the turn of the century when Lexington first became a TB-town it was selected for those reasons. Currently, land and farm prices are quite extravagant if you are looking to move there and have property and the buildings t support a working equine business. Looking at several million in pocket change for a good operation to support a business. but if you're looking to be the backyard person with a few horses, small barn and 11-20 acres you can find it for 500,000 - 1 million depending on how fancy you want it. House prices on no land are pretty expensive in Lexington ands taxes are right up there with some of the costliest in the country. Over $5000 property tax on a house that sits on .28 acres.... yea... that's affordable.
                            Good lord, if you could ever make a statement that even made a little sense. If stallions in KY only bred 30 and 40 mare books, they'd all be out of business. Of course, its the stallions breeding over 100 mares that is supporting the entire industry. Stallions breed small books for 2 reasons....they have little or no commercial value and these farms literally give seasons away to keep them working, or they have fertility issues. Not many have fertility issues.

                            This is exactly why the JC is wanted to limit stallion books. A small percentage of stallions is breeding the majority of the mares. Its those stallions that are making 90% of the stud fee revenue. The other farms cant pay their bills with whats left, and the JC wants to keep those farms floating.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              I don't understand the economic value of breeding a 'cheap mare to a free stallion'. What happens to the off spring? Is there a market for what seems a worthless foal? I must be misunderstanding the conversation.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
                                I don't understand the economic value of breeding a 'cheap mare to a free stallion'. What happens to the off spring? Is there a market for what seems a worthless foal? I must be misunderstanding the conversation.
                                One of my “cheap” mares is a graded stakes producing dam of 9 winners. She also happens to be full sister to a serious G1 horse and former world recorder holder who was retired to stud but died before he sired any foals and was subsequently forgotten.

                                I bought her for, wait for it, a whole $200. Why did I get her for that price? Because most of her foals are average quality turf runners— useful horses with nowhere to run.

                                It’s not that these horses are all “useless.” It’s that the sport has become so damn competitive and expensive that no one wants to buy anything that isn’t the absolute top of the market.
                                Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by Texarkana View Post

                                  One of my “cheap” mares is a graded stakes producing dam of 9 winners. She also happens to be full sister to a serious G1 horse and former world recorder holder who was retired to stud but died before he sired any foals and was subsequently forgotten.

                                  I bought her for, wait for it, a whole $200. Why did I get her for that price? Because most of her foals are average quality turf runners— useful horses with nowhere to run.

                                  It’s not that these horses are all “useless.” It’s that the sport has become so damn competitive and expensive that no one wants to buy anything that isn’t the absolute top of the market.
                                  Ahhhhhh, I knew I was missing something! 🙂 Thanks.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
                                    I don't understand the economic value of breeding a 'cheap mare to a free stallion'. What happens to the off spring? Is there a market for what seems a worthless foal? I must be misunderstanding the conversation.
                                    Commercially you are absolutely correct but that description at some point in their lives could be asserted against John Henry and California Chrome. Many years ago, the winner of the Travers was a horse named Jatski by an unraced sire out of an unraced mare.

                                    Racing brings out the dreamers in all of us.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
                                      I don't understand the economic value of breeding a 'cheap mare to a free stallion'. What happens to the off spring? Is there a market for what seems a worthless foal? I must be misunderstanding the conversation.
                                      Value is a relative thing. In theory, the TB market decides which mares are cheap and which are expensive--but it also rewards a very narrow selection of horses. There are plenty of good producing mares that don't have much market value (could be due to age, or conformation, or fertility issues, etc) A top farm's cull can be a smaller breeder's prize mare.

                                      As for a free stallion, stud owners want to fill books. They also want to see offspring on the track. Late in the year, a stallion whose book isn't filled can often be had at a very reduced rate--because another foal with a good owner is another shot for the stallion to produce a winner. And again, the market is deciding which horses are popular and which aren't. There are many good stallions whose books aren't full because they aren't the flavor of the month. A friend of mine got a free season to a nice horse at a top farm a few months ago because it was the stallion's fourth year and his offspring had been slow to get to the track. Now those 2yos are running and my friend looks like a genius.
                                      www.laurienberenson.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by LaurieB View Post

                                        Value is a relative thing. In theory, the TB market decides which mares are cheap and which are expensive--but it also rewards a very narrow selection of horses. There are plenty of good producing mares that don't have much market value (could be due to age, or conformation, or fertility issues, etc) A top farm's cull can be a smaller breeder's prize mare.

                                        As for a free stallion, stud owners want to fill books. They also want to see offspring on the track. Late in the year, a stallion whose book isn't filled can often be had at a very reduced rate--because another foal with a good owner is another shot for the stallion to produce a winner. And again, the market is deciding which horses are popular and which aren't. There are many good stallions whose books aren't full because they aren't the flavor of the month. A friend of mine got a free season to a nice horse at a top farm a few months ago because it was the stallion's fourth year and his offspring had been slow to get to the track. Now those 2yos are running and my friend looks like a genius.
                                        Very interesting (and informative) thanks! When I read the post I thought "wait, what?" It makes sense that it's really not a cheap mare nor a free stallion.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
                                          I don't understand the economic value of breeding a 'cheap mare to a free stallion'. What happens to the off spring? Is there a market for what seems a worthless foal? I must be misunderstanding the conversation.
                                          State bred incentives also give value to "the low end." I know an Indiana breeder who breeds a lot of cheap mares to IN stallions operating on quantity over quality. Those horses grow up to run as in-state claimers, earning incentives for owner and breeder. It isn't much per-horse, but for a crop of 20+ it adds up. And every now and then one will be good enough for stakes company.

                                          I don't agree with that business model, personally. But it happens.
                                          A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.
                                          ? Albert Einstein

                                          ~AJ~

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