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Bodemeister heading to Turkey

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  • Bodemeister heading to Turkey

    Winstar has sold Bode to Turkey. with the current climate over there with the unrest; not sure how I feel about this. Tizway is also heading there.

  • #2
    These horses are not given a lot of time to prove themselves, are
    they?
    "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism" https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/c...lies/smile.gif

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
      Winstar has sold Bode to Turkey. with the current climate over there with the unrest; not sure how I feel about this. Tizway is also heading there.
      Well then, WHY DIDN'T YOU BUY HIM????!!!!!!!

      You are so quick to criticize how everyone else runs their business and you never ever ever put your money where you mouth is.
      "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

      Comment


      • #4
        Have you been to Turkey? Know any average citizen Turks? Familiar with their breeding industry and where the breeding farms are located? Were you or your advisers and agents planning on booking some mares to these stallions here in Kentucky to support them staying here?
        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

          Well then, WHY DIDN'T YOU BUY HIM????!!!!!!!

          You are so quick to criticize how everyone else runs their business and you never ever ever put your money where you mouth is.
          what a stupid post.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by findeight View Post
            Have you been to Turkey? Know any average citizen Turks? Familiar with their breeding industry and where the breeding farms are located? Were you or your advisers and agents planning on booking some mares to these stallions here in Kentucky to support them staying here?
            no but I know someone born and raised and holds a Syrian passport. that area of the world is not pretty, lots of unrest. It says a lot when Turkey is trying to ethnically cleanse Christians from existence in Syria. The farm that Bodemeister has been sold to is beautiful and all of their stallions are well cared for; it wasn't implying that he wasn't going to anything less. Perhaps I was planning to book some mares to him? I am sure others were as well and now they have to rethink their options. You couldn't pay me to go to Turkey or any part of that region. regardless of people book mares to Bodemeister (there have been plenty of mares bred to him in recent years) this is typical Winstar Farm.

            Their business model doesn't circulate around their stallions who have stood in their barns a long time. Their business model is to invest in young, retired-early colts who won a few good ones and breed them to large books for a few seasons after building up the hype. If they work out, they work out. If not, any losses are cut (likely no losses) and they are quickly replaced by the new shiny object. Which is fine, I cant blame them for wanting to operate like that, but Winstar has developed a reputation in recent years and that is their own doing, not mine. Need to remember that the stallions standing in their barns the longest are the result of the hard work of the team involved with Winstar before its current regime. This was before Winstar began turning over stallions like hot potatoes and standing so many of them. There was a time when the majority of the stalls in Winstar's barn were empty but what was in the barn was the real deal.

            And I don't think Bodemeister wasn't working out, I think he had demand as a sire but Winstar had already made their money on him and took the deal and ran. I am sure he didn't go cheap. Audible and Yoshida are joining their roster for 2020 and the stall space is needed. there is the old adage that "money talks" and for Winstar it certainly does. The last time I was at Winstar there was plenty of whispers about Tiznow staying in the states but then he had a better crop on the track and his demand slowly creeped back. But for a few years, Tiznow was in a bit of a slump and it was well noted.

            And props to those foreigners who find a stallion they like and are willing to dump large sums of money to get them. They know what they want, what will work in their programs and they go after it.

            To each their own on how they do business. Winstar is in its own field as to how their conduct theirs. My post was simply about Bodemeister being sold to Turkey. Nothing more. Carry on.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post
              These horses are not given a lot of time to prove themselves, are
              they?
              no, and that is how Winstar operates. Pretty crazy sometimes~!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                no but I know someone born and raised and holds a Syrian passport. that area of the world is not pretty, lots of unrest. It says a lot when Turkey is trying to ethnically cleanse Christians from existence in Syria. The farm that Bodemeister has been sold to is beautiful and all of their stallions are well cared for; it wasn't implying that he wasn't going to anything less. Perhaps I was planning to book some mares to him? I am sure others were as well and now they have to rethink their options. You couldn't pay me to go to Turkey or any part of that region. regardless of people book mares to Bodemeister (there have been plenty of mares bred to him in recent years) this is typical Winstar Farm.

                Their business model doesn't circulate around their stallions who have stood in their barns a long time. Their business model is to invest in young, retired-early colts who won a few good ones and breed them to large books for a few seasons after building up the hype. If they work out, they work out. If not, any losses are cut (likely no losses) and they are quickly replaced by the new shiny object. Which is fine, I cant blame them for wanting to operate like that, but Winstar has developed a reputation in recent years and that is their own doing, not mine. Need to remember that the stallions standing in their barns the longest are the result of the hard work of the team involved with Winstar before its current regime. This was before Winstar began turning over stallions like hot potatoes and standing so many of them. There was a time when the majority of the stalls in Winstar's barn were empty but what was in the barn was the real deal.

                And I don't think Bodemeister wasn't working out, I think he had demand as a sire but Winstar had already made their money on him and took the deal and ran. I am sure he didn't go cheap. Audible and Yoshida are joining their roster for 2020 and the stall space is needed. there is the old adage that "money talks" and for Winstar it certainly does. The last time I was at Winstar there was plenty of whispers about Tiznow staying in the states but then he had a better crop on the track and his demand slowly creeped back. But for a few years, Tiznow was in a bit of a slump and it was well noted.

                And props to those foreigners who find a stallion they like and are willing to dump large sums of money to get them. They know what they want, what will work in their programs and they go after it.

                To each their own on how they do business. Winstar is in its own field as to how their conduct theirs. My post was simply about Bodemeister being sold to Turkey. Nothing more. Carry on.

                snaffle, as always your post is 75% lecturing us on stuff that everyone already knows and 25% untrue.

                To repeat what you said above in reply to another poster: what a stupid post.

                www.laurienberenson.com

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by LaurieB View Post


                  snaffle, as always your post is 75% lecturing us on stuff that everyone already knows and 25% untrue.

                  To repeat what you said above in reply to another poster: what a stupid post.
                  then if you didn't want to be lectured on things you already knew then don't ask me to clarify. My post simply stated Bodemeister heading to Turkey with no other inclination, facts, questioning etc. Your cohorts were the ones who asked me questions as if I was insinuating something different. Which I was not at all. Lord Help Us asked that these stallions are not given a lot of time to prove themselves? Hence my explanation of how Winstar operates; which is very true. No, Winstar does not give their stallions a lot of time to prove themselves. But other farms are following in similar footsteps of their corporate way of doing business. They're not the only ones. Get a grip.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I lived in Turkey for over a year, in 2015-2016. I stayed in Tutunciftlik, right outside of Izmit (no, not Izmir) in Kocaeli.

                    Comparing Syria to the majority of Turkey is like saying all of San Francisco is equal to Compton. Or all of Chicago is like Cabrini Green. You seriously need to get out more, snaffle1987. For god's sake, they were this.stinking.close to joining the EU just a few years ago...

                    If anyone has any questions on the living conditions in the vast majority of Turkey, feel free to ask.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                      then if you didn't want to be lectured on things you already knew then don't ask me to clarify. My post simply stated Bodemeister heading to Turkey with no other inclination, facts, questioning etc. Your cohorts were the ones who asked me questions as if I was insinuating something different. Which I was not at all. Lord Help Us asked that these stallions are not given a lot of time to prove themselves? Hence my explanation of how Winstar operates; which is very true. No, Winstar does not give their stallions a lot of time to prove themselves. But other farms are following in similar footsteps of their corporate way of doing business. They're not the only ones. Get a grip.
                      What a stupid post. You have such a hard time understanding that the racing and breeding businesses are - surprise - businesses. And need to operate like businesses. Maybe because you are not actually involved in the racing or breeding businesses.
                      ​​​​​​.
                      "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                        then if you didn't want to be lectured on things you already knew then don't ask me to clarify. My post simply stated Bodemeister heading to Turkey with no other inclination, facts, questioning etc. Your cohorts were the ones who asked me questions as if I was insinuating something different. Which I was not at all. Lord Help Us asked that these stallions are not given a lot of time to prove themselves? Hence my explanation of how Winstar operates; which is very true. No, Winstar does not give their stallions a lot of time to prove themselves. But other farms are following in similar footsteps of their corporate way of doing business. They're not the only ones. Get a grip.
                        Please go back and read through the replies to your original post.

                        Nobody is asking you to clarify anything. Mostly because we know better.

                        My grip is fine. Thank you.
                        www.laurienberenson.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LaurieB View Post

                          Please go back and read through the replies to your original post.

                          Nobody is asking you to clarify anything. Mostly because we know better.

                          My grip is fine. Thank you.
                          I believe that she felt that Find Eights question require her to "clarify".
                          When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
                          www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
                          http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I thought F8's questions were rhetorical. Sorry.

                            But I'll join in this clarification game.

                            Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                            no but I know someone born and raised and holds a Syrian passport. that area of the world is not pretty, lots of unrest. It says a lot when Turkey is trying to ethnically cleanse Christians from existence in Syria. The farm that Bodemeister has been sold to is beautiful and all of their stallions are well cared for; it wasn't implying that he wasn't going to anything less. Perhaps I was planning to book some mares to him? I am sure others were as well and now they have to rethink their options. You couldn't pay me to go to Turkey or any part of that region. regardless of people book mares to Bodemeister (there have been plenty of mares bred to him in recent years) this is typical Winstar Farm.

                            Their business model doesn't circulate around their stallions who have stood in their barns a long time.
                            This is patently untrue. WinStar's top stallions are More Than Ready, Distorted Humor, Speightstown, and Tiznow, all of whom have stood at the farm for more than a decade.

                            Their business model is to invest in young, retired-early colts who won a few good ones...
                            Their tried and true stallions are aging so they are looking for upcoming replacements. That only makes sense. It's good business management. Of course they are looking for young blood. Retired early? You think that's something they look for? What a joke.

                            ...and breed them to large books for a few seasons after building up the hype. So you're complaining that they advertise their stallions?

                            If they work out, they work out. If not, any losses are cut (likely no losses) and they are quickly replaced by the new shiny object.
                            Because every successful business sticks with their failures.


                            Which is fine, I cant blame them for wanting to operate like that, but Winstar has developed a reputation in recent years and that is their own doing, not mine.
                            A reputation for what? And among whom? This is another of your fantasies.

                            Need to remember that the stallions standing in their barns the longest are the result of the hard work of the team involved with Winstar before its current regime.
                            Nope, also untrue. Distorted Humor--whose first crop had yet to hit the racetrack--came with the farm when they bought it. The current owners have developed every other stallion there.

                            This was before Winstar began turning over stallions like hot potatoes and standing so many of them. There was a time when the majority of the stalls in Winstar's barn were empty but what was in the barn was the real deal.
                            I've never seen those empty stalls. Not in any of the 40-50 times I've been inside the barns there. Surprising with so many empty stalls that they would feel the need to build a bigger stallion station around the corner. By the way, Bodemeister entered stud at WinStar six years ago. How is that "turning over stallions like hot potatoes"?

                            And I don't think Bodemeister wasn't working out, I think he had demand as a sire but Winstar had already made their money on him and took the deal and ran. I am sure he didn't go cheap. Audible and Yoshida are joining their roster for 2020 and the stall space is needed.
                            Oh please. The stall space is needed?? What about all their supposed empty stalls?

                            there is the old adage that "money talks" and for Winstar it certainly does. The last time I was at Winstar there was plenty of whispers about Tiznow staying in the states but then he had a better crop on the track and his demand slowly creeped back. But for a few years, Tiznow was in a bit of a slump and it was well noted.
                            Tiznow's results "slumped" in 2008. If that was the last time you updated your information, it's easier to understand why nothing you're saying makes sense.

                            And props to those foreigners who find a stallion they like and are willing to dump large sums of money to get them. They know what they want, what will work in their programs and they go after it.

                            To each their own on how they do business. Winstar is in its own field as to how their conduct theirs. My post was simply about Bodemeister being sold to Turkey. Nothing more. Carry on.

                            www.laurienberenson.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I hate to see stallions going overseas as much as the next person, but Bode’s AEI is 1.10, and below 1 for current year and lifetime 2 y/os. And that’s with a Kentucky Derby winner. That puts him below just about every other stallion in KY from the class of 2013.

                              Buyers don’t want the worst stallion of the class. Breeders don’t want to breed to the worst stallion of the class. Logically, it makes sense to sell him before the picture becomes bleaker. And the buyers you’re going to attract will be overseas or regional interests. At least when they go overseas at this point, they’re going into top notch operations. The scary part is the potential for loss of control if they don’t work out.

                              I wish our market operated differently. I wish there was a stronger “sporting” factor in racing today, as there was in decades past, instead of it being predominantly ruled by hard numbers. But I don’t know how to recreate that when it has become so darn expensive to play.
                              Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                LaurieB thanks for refuting many of snaffle's comments, many of which come from your experience in the breeding industry (even if small) in Kentucky.

                                Maybe the reason I love animals so much is because the only time they have broken my heart is when they've crossed that rainbow bridge

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I hate seeing stallions go as much as anyone, but I think there is enough Unbridled/Empire Maker blood around that breeders are seeking elsewhere. Empire Maker himself is back at Gainesway; there are several POTN sons around, and doing really well. The writing is on the wall for Bodemeister. Anecdotally, I've heard they are a bit crazy and difficult to deal with. Certainly there are other options for those mares.
                                  A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.
                                  ? Albert Einstein

                                  ~AJ~

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    I would certainly choose Empire Maker over Bode any day of the week. I think its very exciting that he returned and the breeding establishment acted when they knew sending him overseas was a mistake. I am sure the foreign owners took full advantage of selling the stallion back to the states.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Was he brought back because his owners are admitting a “ mistake” or because he’s 20 years old and in the twilight of his career as a stud? Not like he’s going to be covering a full book of mares every year. More like pensioned in the next year or two.


                                      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by findeight View Post
                                        Was he brought back because his owners are admitting a “ mistake” or because he’s 20 years old and in the twilight of his career as a stud? Not like he’s going to be covering a full book of mares every year. More like pensioned in the next year or two.

                                        Empire Maker was brought back because his grandson won the first Triple Crown in 37 years, increasing his value to the point where he was worth more to Americans than he was to Japanese breeders.

                                        I know "mistake" wasn't your verbiage, findeight. You were quoting the poster above you. But I don't think "mistake" accurately describes the situation. The situation changed, that's all.
                                        Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

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