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Closing Argument, D'Wildcat among 4 Stallions being dispersed by auction 10/27/19 in Louisiana

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  • Closing Argument, D'Wildcat among 4 Stallions being dispersed by auction 10/27/19 in Louisiana

    https://equinesalescompany.com/open-...sale-oct-2019/

    There was a fair stink about this and some of the broodmares being dispersed. Old Friends has been notified.

    Reportedly kill buyers can and do go to this sale.

    Em
    "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

  • #2
    Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
    https://equinesalescompany.com/open-...sale-oct-2019/

    There was a fair stink about this and some of the broodmares being dispersed. Old Friends has been notified.

    Reportedly kill buyers can and do go to this sale.

    Em
    Thanks thanks for posting. People need to know. And there is another big tb auction in New Mexico this week or next week.

    Comment


    • #3
      I know this post is going to be unpopular but...

      The vast majority of TB breeders have been losing their shirts for years (since the 2008 meltdown).

      And let's be honest, half the people who post in the racing forum come here only to vent their dislike of the sport.
      "TB owners are cruel!"
      "Horseracing kills horses!"
      "TB breeders should be put out of business!"

      Well, these people have been. So they are dispersing their stock (hopefully with appropriate reserves.) You got what you wished for.

      Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

      www.laurienberenson.com

      Comment


      • #4
        I've owned 3 Ottb mares from auction who lived out their lives with me. I've followed racing on tv and at the tracks since Native Dancer. A guy who worked for my father bred and raced his horses and I got to hang with the mares and foals and stud from childhood. I know how racing has devolved.

        One of the horses being auctioned was 2nd in the Derby. He won almost $1M. Should have retirement Owners keep breeding. Remember Ferdinand?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post

          Thanks thanks for posting. People need to know. And there is another big tb auction in New Mexico this week or next week.
          Where/when?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jonem004 View Post

            Where/when?
            go to thoroughbredauctions.com and sign up. Sale starts the 20th.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by LaurieB View Post
              I know this post is going to be unpopular but...

              The vast majority of TB breeders have been losing their shirts for years (since the 2008 meltdown).

              And let's be honest, half the people who post in the racing forum come here only to vent their dislike of the sport.
              "TB owners are cruel!"
              "Horseracing kills horses!"
              "TB breeders should be put out of business!"

              Well, these people have been. So they are dispersing their stock (hopefully with appropriate reserves.) You got what you wished for.

              Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
              I didn’t take the announcement anywhere near as personally. I don’t think Xctrygirl was trying to stir the pot.

              The more knowledge and interest generated about horses available at public auction, the better for everyone. Better for the sellers, better for the horses, better chance the prices will be high enough to deter unsavory buyers.

              While there are always extremist racing critics and animal advocates who will be unhappy no matter what, I think most reasonable people understand horses need to be sold for a myriad of reasons.

              Where I get critical of any breeder, thoroughbred or not, is when they let things get so bad financially that their only option is a hastily executed, under the radar, fire sale to dump their stock. Not saying that is the case here. But in those cases, there are plenty of rehoming agencies today who would help any breeder to network to place the horses and may even be able to take horses or produce buyers interested in something other than meat.
              Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

              Comment


              • #8
                It's bananas to me that a horse with his own Wikipedia page could end up like this. I mean, I understand how it happens and I'm sad for all of those horses, famous or not. Sad stuff. Thanks for posting.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closing_Argument_(horse)
                Mr. Sandman
                sand me a man
                make him so sandy
                the sandiest man

                Comment


                • #9
                  D'Wildcat is 21 yrs old.

                  Stallion photos (probably not recent) https://whisperingoaksla.com/stallions-2/

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Texarkana is correct. No pot stirring intended.

                    I saw Closing Argument up close and personal as he was a part of Scrappy's crop and indeed finished behind us at Pimlico. He was a lovely horse then and I am as sad for him to be in this position now as I would be for any horse.

                    The best thing I thought I could do is to share the news of the auction with plenty of heads up so those who might have an interest in helping or buying could see the details and have time to figure out what they can do.

                    I looked up last year's results from the same auction on their site and the numbers show clearly why the kill buyers might swing by this particular auction. So basically my choice of action was in the "knowledge is power" category. And I shared the news and link here.

                    If I ever win a lottery I'll absolutely do more myself. But I'm happy to try to help by sharing a link.

                    Em

                    "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I wonder if any of the racing Quarter Horse breeders would be interested in these stallions?
                      This may be unrealistic since I don't know what sort of TB stallions QH breeders look for to cross with their mares.
                      I was just remembering Storm Cat being bred to QH mares after he was pensioned...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LaurieB View Post
                        I know this post is going to be unpopular but...

                        The vast majority of TB breeders have been losing their shirts for years (since the 2008 meltdown).

                        And let's be honest, half the people who post in the racing forum come here only to vent their dislike of the sport.
                        "TB owners are cruel!"
                        "Horseracing kills horses!"
                        "TB breeders should be put out of business!"

                        Well, these people have been. So they are dispersing their stock (hopefully with appropriate reserves.) You got what you wished for.

                        Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
                        I have never seen those quotes on the racing forum. this isn't PETA. Some of us just feel improvement needs to be made within if there is any hope of the sport surviving. But there are many in the industry who refuse to wake up to that revelation. Whether you want to hear it or not; the publics perception of an industry is now developed based on what they read online and in news outlets.
                        Doesn't mean that what they read is right but they accept it as fact. How do you think PETA and other animal rights activists have been so successful in altering peoples incorrect and negative assumptions of the food industry. You guys are just the next ring on the totem pole for those whackadoodles to attack and they have a very large pull in the media. So button up your britches and start educating the public or improving decades old-accepted ways of doing things to better the public perception. I will tell you first hand that as an industry, you cant just sit on the way side with the opinion that you know more because you're involved and brush off the general publics incorrect opinion based on what they read. If you want to take that route; prepare for your demise.

                        Louisiana and Oklahoma breeding establishments have been rather hard knocking areas. The amount of TB's heading direct to slaughter from those areas is well known. Many of them disappear but a fair number of them appear in facebook posts or other forms of Social Media to try and save them. The sheer number of them available and showing up on the kill lots in these areas is staggering. I am sure texas and/or Louisiana is right up there too. Relatively easy access to this shipping lots on the texas border. It is very sad.

                        Lets be honest and truthful, These areas are not breeding the 1 million dollar yearlings. or even 200,000 yearlings. They've invested in some nice stallions that didn't fit in in KY which is great but its only one side of the coin. The fact of the matter is that most of the mares being bred in these areas are not the cream of the crop. And they're not producing the cream of the crop (on average). It's an entirely different demographic of breeding. And I am not saying its a bad thing; there's all different types needed to make the world go around. But its an entirely different business model than what people have accepted as the norm in KY. It's very hard to breed and raise a foal to turn a profit in todays economy and world. When you're breeding average offspring; the margin gets even more difficult to reach.

                        It just goes to prove that no matter the history on some of these horses; they can end up in bad places and they will end up in bad places. Lets just be thankful they appeared on an internet auction site instead of being dispersed in the local sale barn where they would've disappeared under the radar (which happens more often than not).



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by skydy View Post
                          I wonder if any of the racing Quarter Horse breeders would be interested in these stallions?
                          This may be unrealistic since I don't know what sort of TB stallions QH breeders look for to cross with their mares.
                          I was just remembering Storm Cat being bred to QH mares after he was pensioned...
                          Yes, they used some of the stored dismount samples on QH mares. I didn't follow so have no idea how well those progeny did.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                            I have never seen those quotes on the racing forum. this isn't PETA.


                            OMG --pot, kettle, black. Do you honestly not see those sentiments in YOUR posts?

                            And if I don't agree with you, I should prepare for my sport's demise?

                            Power tripping much?

                            Seriously snaffle, shut down the computer, get out of the house and interact with some people. Learn something about the sport besides what you happen to read online. Then maybe you'll have something to offer besides diatribes and scolding.

                            I've been in the business almost 20 years. I've never lost one on the track (knocking wood furiously), my only unnamed ones have had paddock accidents because, you know, horses and I have taken great care and expense to retire them to good homes. If my horses need medical care, they get it, up to and including surgery and, in the past, for horses I knew didn't have a racing future. It was the right thing to do.

                            I am entirely typical of the people I know and hang with in the industry.

                            Please, for your own sake, get out and broaden your horizons.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pronzini View Post

                              OMG --pot, kettle, black. Do you honestly not see those sentiments in YOUR posts?

                              And if I don't agree with you, I should prepare for my sport's demise?

                              Power tripping much?

                              Seriously snaffle, shut down the computer, get out of the house and interact with some people. Learn something about the sport besides what you happen to read online. Then maybe you'll have something to offer besides diatribes and scolding.

                              I've been in the business almost 20 years. I've never lost one on the track (knocking wood furiously), my only unnamed ones have had paddock accidents because, you know, horses and I have taken great care and expense to retire them to good homes. If my horses need medical care, they get it, up to and including surgery and, in the past, for horses I knew didn't have a racing future. It was the right thing to do.

                              I am entirely typical of the people I know and hang with in the industry.

                              Please, for your own sake, get out and broaden your horizons.
                              actually, no. you're making assumptions and reading what you want to hear written in my posts because you don't want to hear it. You can continue to operate with your head stuck in the sand and your entire industry can and will dissolve into thin air or you can acknowledge that change needs to happen and the industry needs to be more transparent in order to keep fans and continue to gain fans. If you don't; PETA will have its way with your businesses and every person who has access to a smartphone or computer will take what they read as truth.

                              NO one wants to hear these sentiments but if the industry wants to survive and get out of continuing spiral of decline; something needs to happen. Shipping off Derby runners and low end broodmares to slaughter or slaughter sales isn't exactly going to build a fan base but these stories riddle our facebook newsfeeds and leave a negative impression on lots of people; public and horse-people alike.

                              The problem with your post is you're one of the good ones and the good ones far outweig the bad and no one hears your story because PETA and its entire plan has drowned you out in the media to further their agenda. That was the entire purpose of my post. But it went straight over your head.

                              I sincerely hope all of these horses get a soft landing. I cant imagine bringing consignments here knowing where they end up. But with so many rescue operations around today, its sad to me that this farm sought no assistance.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                                actually, no. you're making assumptions and reading what you want to hear written in my posts because you don't want to hear it. You can continue to operate with your head stuck in the sand and your entire industry can and will dissolve into thin air or you can acknowledge that change needs to happen and the industry needs to be more transparent in order to keep fans and continue to gain fans. If you don't; PETA will have its way with your businesses and every person who has access to a smartphone or computer will take what they read as truth.

                                NO one wants to hear these sentiments but if the industry wants to survive and get out of continuing spiral of decline; something needs to happen. Shipping off Derby runners and low end broodmares to slaughter or slaughter sales isn't exactly going to build a fan base but these stories riddle our facebook newsfeeds and leave a negative impression on lots of people; public and horse-people alike.

                                The problem with your post is you're one of the good ones and the good ones far outweig the bad and no one hears your story because PETA and its entire plan has drowned you out in the media to further their agenda. That was the entire purpose of my post. But it went straight over your head.

                                I sincerely hope all of these horses get a soft landing. I cant imagine bringing consignments here knowing where they end up. But with so many rescue operations around today, its sad to me that this farm sought no assistance.
                                You have no idea where these horses will "end up". I don't see anywhere in the information that they are being sold without reserve. It is a breeding stock dispersal.

                                You are "sad that the farm sought no assistance" with what? Do you know this breeder? How do you know what they have and have not done and what plans they have? You are assuming an awful lot.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
                                  https://equinesalescompany.com/open-...sale-oct-2019/

                                  There was a fair stink about this and some of the broodmares being dispersed. Old Friends has been notified.

                                  Reportedly kill buyers can and do go to this sale. Owners whose horses have not reached their sale price, and who do not wat to bring the horse home, consider kill buyers as a valid option

                                  Em
                                  Kill buyers can and do go to many sales. Some sales try to discourage this by keeping their 'strike' price higher than the kill buyers will pay, but sellers are always available to make deals back at the barn. It is a fact of life, much to the disgust of all of us. To them, It is a viable way to no longer own these horses. Not the choice and many/any of us would choose, but it will continue to happen unless someone with money and a place to put these horses is standing at the back gate.
                                  I have rescued 4 - 5 of such horses --- and they have all turned out very well in their new lives, but I was able to pick and choose which ones "looked the part"
                                  "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism" https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/c...lies/smile.gif

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by skydy View Post
                                    I wonder if any of the racing Quarter Horse breeders would be interested in these stallions?
                                    This may be unrealistic since I don't know what sort of TB stallions QH breeders look for to cross with their mares.
                                    I was just remembering Storm Cat being bred to QH mares after he was pensioned...
                                    If QH breeders were interested in the stallions they would likely be breeding to them already if they were offered.

                                    Some lovely looking stallions, I hope they find a good homes.
                                    ~~Some days are a total waste of makeup.~~

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by jvanrens View Post

                                      If QH breeders were interested in the stallions they would likely be breeding to them already if they were offered.

                                      Some lovely looking stallions, I hope they find a good homes.
                                      Maybe they weren't offered? Anyway, perhaps there will be some interest from someone, if not TB breeders.

                                      The more people aware of the sale, the better.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post

                                        Kill buyers can and do go to many sales. Some sales try to discourage this by keeping their 'strike' price higher than the kill buyers will pay, but sellers are always available to make deals back at the barn. It is a fact of life, much to the disgust of all of us. To them, It is a viable way to no longer own these horses. Not the choice and many/any of us would choose, but it will continue to happen unless someone with money and a place to put these horses is standing at the back gate.
                                        I have rescued 4 - 5 of such horses --- and they have all turned out very well in their new lives, but I was able to pick and choose which ones "looked the part"
                                        Just a guess, but I would imagine that any kill buyers attending this dispersal will be looking for horses they can flip for a high "bail price" to the "OMG, the truck is COMING!!!" crowd. Not to say that the truck never comes for such horses , mind you, but the kill pen rescue hype is so misguided.

                                        Comment

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