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NY Times Article on Justify

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Laurierace View Post

    They use out of competition testing as well as the so called super tests for the TC races so I feel confident that his negative tests in those races were actually negative.
    I don't feel confident about anything, That board appears to protect Baffert against anything and everything, so I don't know who else and what else he's been protected from, in the secretive "closed door sessions".

    Justify entered the SA Derby off a maiden race and an allowance race. He had 0 points entering the race.

    Had he been disqualified due to a drug positive, (from the race entirely, not like a racing interference where they move you from winner position to a different ITM position) then he would not have made the KY Derby gate (unless he ran another race).

    I just can't helpo but wonder if another deserving horse might have made it into the KY Derby had Justify not taken up a spot. That surely seems unfair to other trainers, owners and breeders, as well as the betting pubic.

    And since it became clear that Justify would not "hold up" to racing long term, I will always wonder about him during that very short period of time that he had any career at all, because I can't be sure there aren't more lies-behind-the-lies.

    That is what happens when you lose credibility. They not only let the case drop, and dismiss it, but they loosened their rules on scopolamine positives (Two months after dismissing the Justify case, CHRB changed the penalty for a failed scopolamine test from a disqualification to a fine and a possible suspension) That was 2 months before Aug. 23,.
    It's llke they already had the info and were covering their butts by making it a lesser offense.

    If the sequence of events that Drape wrote is true, then EVERYTHING--- every step that was taken by these officials along the way in this case was highly unprecendented.



    I will say that Baffert has quite the protection scheme going. If this were the mafia, not the CHRB, you'd have to pay a WHOLE LOT to get the kinds of dispensations he's gotten . I guess there's not much difference though. LOL

    Lance Armstrong was stripped of all his titles.


    Tomorrow, I suspect the talking heads will say this was an innocent feed contamination, not cheating, thus opening the door to any trainer, in any future qualifying race, to claim the same.


    When Drape's article came out Dr. Arthur would not confirm that the horse had tested positive and referred that question to other CHRB officials. All of them were "unavailable for comment." Elliott Walden also said no comment. Baffert also declined to comment ( but said he would make a statement Thursday.)

    I suspect there are a lot of people making a lot of phone calls to get stories straight or Drape will have to further prove veracity. Somebody knows the truth






    Comment


    • #22
      Bolt D'Oro's owners/trainers (The Ruis's, sorry for bad punctuation) and possibly other owners will sue the commission and probably the CHRB for the purse money from the Santa Anita Derby because the horse should have been taken down and Bolt D'Oro declared the winner, and the purse money redistributed.

      This will make Justify ineligible for the KY Derby, so Good Magic's owners and possibly other owners will sue the CHRB and the commissioners because Justify should not have been in the race.

      Should Justify be taken down from the SA Derby and declared ineligible for the KY Derby and now he is not a Triple Crown winner, Coolmore will sue the commissioners and the CHRB and Baffert.

      This is a massive flock of clucks. THIS could take down an industry.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post

        And why is this article appearing now... more than a year since the original failed drug test???
        The article mentions emails and memos; my guess would be they were recently obtained. Maybe there is one honest whistleblower in CA.

        Comment


        • #24
          What I am curious about is were they REALLY going to lower the penalty before Justify’s positive test or is that a big CYA on their part?

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post
            What I am curious about is were they REALLY going to lower the penalty before Justify’s positive test or is that a big CYA on their part?
            They swept it under the rug and pretended nothing happened. Infractions are usually published in meeting minutes etc. To me, this bears consideration as to whether or not their actions rise to the level of criminal intent. I’m pretty sure there is over $1 million in purse money that should have been redistributed had the CHRB stayed consistent and honest.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by WinterTriangle View Post

              I don't feel confident about anything, That board appears to protect Baffert against anything and everything, so I don't know who else and what else he's been protected from, in the secretive "closed door sessions".

              Justify entered the SA Derby off a maiden race and an allowance race. He had 0 points entering the race.

              Had he been disqualified due to a drug positive, (from the race entirely, not like a racing interference where they move you from winner position to a different ITM position) then he would not have made the KY Derby gate (unless he ran another race).

              I just can't helpo but wonder if another deserving horse might have made it into the KY Derby had Justify not taken up a spot. That surely seems unfair to other trainers, owners and breeders, as well as the betting pubic.

              And since it became clear that Justify would not "hold up" to racing long term, I will always wonder about him during that very short period of time that he had any career at all, because I can't be sure there aren't more lies-behind-the-lies.

              That is what happens when you lose credibility. They not only let the case drop, and dismiss it, but they loosened their rules on scopolamine positives (Two months after dismissing the Justify case, CHRB changed the penalty for a failed scopolamine test from a disqualification to a fine and a possible suspension) That was 2 months before Aug. 23,.
              It's llke they already had the info and were covering their butts by making it a lesser offense.

              If the sequence of events that Drape wrote is true, then EVERYTHING--- every step that was taken by these officials along the way in this case was highly unprecendented.



              I will say that Baffert has quite the protection scheme going. If this were the mafia, not the CHRB, you'd have to pay a WHOLE LOT to get the kinds of dispensations he's gotten . I guess there's not much difference though. LOL

              Lance Armstrong was stripped of all his titles.


              Tomorrow, I suspect the talking heads will say this was an innocent feed contamination, not cheating, thus opening the door to any trainer, in any future qualifying race, to claim the same.


              When Drape's article came out Dr. Arthur would not confirm that the horse had tested positive and referred that question to other CHRB officials. All of them were "unavailable for comment." Elliott Walden also said no comment. Baffert also declined to comment ( but said he would make a statement Thursday.)

              I suspect there are a lot of people making a lot of phone calls to get stories straight or Drape will have to further prove veracity. Somebody knows the truth





              I know how these things work as I have been a licensed trainer for close to 30 years but appreciate the summary for those who may not. The CHRB was not involved in any of the other races though so their corruption would not carry over to the other jurisdictions. I would have been fine with them coming out and saying it was a feed contamination and therefore no action will be taken even though it is quadruple the threshold level, but they needed to do it all the way back then, not now after their cover up is exposed.
              And to think I was worried about Belinda Stronach taking down racing. The CHRB is like “hold my beer.” Now all we need is a break down or two in the BC and she will get her condos and strip malls.
              Last edited by Laurierace; Sep. 12, 2019, 08:38 AM.
              McDowell Racing Stables

              Home Away From Home

              Comment


              • #27
                The other side
                https://www.drf.com/news/california-...g-justify-test
                McDowell Racing Stables

                Home Away From Home

                Comment


                • #28
                  Next questions for you guys:

                  I imagine there could be some jimsom weed in cheap hay. I don't suspect that is the kind of hay a high dollar barn like Baffert's has??? . Also, the amount of the substance was pretty darn high in the test results? I mean high high. And, none of the other horses in the barn tested positive for it. Only the one that needed points to make the derby gate?
                  .

                  I just cannot get over that the CHRB changed the rules on Scopolamine AFTER they knew the rules had already been broken.

                  Every time I read thru it, I put my head in my hands.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Let's see, American Pharoah wins the Triple Crown in 2015 after a 37-year draught. Justify wins the TC, three years later. Both horses are trained by Bob Baffert. Both horses look stronger as the TC races continue. Justify is lame after the Derby but is training again a week later. He is so lame after the Belmont that he is retired immediately.

                    Baffert has a 22% win rate. He's been in trouble over administering "interesting" drugs before, the most egregious when 7 horses in his barn dropped dead (2013).

                    According to the Paulick Report:

                    Nothing illegal was detected, said Arthur, though he called it “troublesome” that Baffert had the thyroid drug Thyro-L administered to all of the horses in his stable. Since the seventh sudden death occurred in March, Arthur said, Baffert has dropped that regimen.
                    It looks to me like "Teflon Bob" gets a lot of protection.
                    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
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                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                      Thanks for sharing this.

                      I have no idea what to make of it all... except that this is very bad news for California Racing, and racing in general right now.

                      Based on what little I have seen from my spot on the sidelines... I’m not a fan of with the Stronach family, or Baffert. But the article in the New York Times smelled a LOT like PETA had some sort of influence on it...

                      PETA are a bunch of irrational extreme loons. I’m all for the ethical treatment of animals... but political urban type activists with little in the way of actual knowledge about the animals and industries they rail against? These PETA folks are a nightmare, and will not accomplish anything in the way of helpful, marginal, practical reforms in horse racing, that lead to a more sustainable industry and a slightly better life for the animals involved. UGGH.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        A likely stupid... but fairly obvious question in relation to the DRF article giving voice to “the other side”...

                        What in the world is up with feeding ANY sort of supplement that MIGHT cause a positive test? Contaminated food or straw bedding is one thing. But “natural” supplements with unregulated and unpredictable ingredients? Uh... I find this defense I find pretty hard to believe... I know when it comes to FEI horses that are at the barn where my young mare is in training... everyone is EXTREMELY vigilant about anything and everything those horses consume at all times. Even when it comes to tiny amounts of treats. And in those situations... I’m talking about upper level eventers who are geldings. So there is really no prize money, and nothing in the way of stud fees at stake.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                          There are threshold levels for many compounds such as this that can be ingested accidentally through their environment. When you quadruple the threshold the accidental ingestion argument goes out the window however. For the record, no I do not think it was scopolamine that turned him into a TC winner. I saw him up close and personal in Maryland and New York, his talent is evident for everyone to see. That’s not the point though. The point is you don’t get to pick and chose which positive tests are punished and which aren’t depending upon who the connections are or which race the horse is pointed towards next. Just like this year’s derby proved, if it’s a foul in a $2500 claimer, it’s a foul in the Derby.
                          Thanks - this is what I was wondering. 4x the threshold doesn’t sound incidental. And agree 100%, the board’s decision here is crazy.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            get ready for the lawsuits. this is going to be a show.

                            Wouldn't you just love to be a fly on the wall in the Baffert barn. Makes you wonder if grooms are paid some extra, extra under the table to keep mouths shut. What happens behind closed stall doors, stays behind closed doors?

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
                              get ready for the lawsuits. this is going to be a show.

                              Wouldn't you just love to be a fly on the wall in the Baffert barn. Makes you wonder if grooms are paid some extra, extra under the table to keep mouths shut. What happens behind closed stall doors, stays behind closed doors?
                              Much more likely the grooms had no idea than were paid off in my opinion. The commission is obviously another story however.
                              McDowell Racing Stables

                              Home Away From Home

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                              • #35
                                The Blood Horse has yet to touch this story. Paulick has it, TDN has it. Guess we know which editorial board kisses Baffert's lily-white ass.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Sorry guys...
                                  I think there is a decent chance that this is being BLOWN way out of proportion by those who would like racing to disappear.
                                  The fact that PETA is involved-and has given quotes is highly suspicious. Not like they have EVER fabricated BS to make horse people look horrible.

                                  Maybe take a harder look at the other side, as with everything in life, the truth often lies in somewhere in the middle.
                                  "The Friesian syndrome... a mix between Black Beauty disease and DQ Butterfly farting ailment." Alibi_18

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Vindicated View Post
                                    Sorry guys...
                                    I think there is a decent chance that this is being BLOWN way out of proportion by those who would like racing to disappear.
                                    The fact that PETA is involved-and has given quotes is highly suspicious. Not like they have EVER fabricated BS to make horse people look horrible.

                                    Maybe take a harder look at the other side, as with everything in life, the truth often lies in somewhere in the middle.
                                    I dunno. I am the most anti-PETA, pro-racing person you could find on this BB and I still think the situation stinks.

                                    I do want to hear from Baffert, the horse's owners, and the CHRB though. They cannot just stay silent and hope this whole mess blows over.
                                    www.laurienberenson.com

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Laurierace View Post

                                      Much more likely the grooms had no idea than were paid off in my opinion. The commission is obviously another story however.
                                      the racing Mob and the inner circles. Bob is untouchable in California. untouchable

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by LaurieB View Post

                                        I dunno. I am the most anti-PETA, pro-racing person you could find on this BB and I still think the situation stinks.

                                        I do want to hear from Baffert, the horse's owners, and the CHRB though. They cannot just stay silent and hope this whole mess blows over.
                                        I cant think of anything that Baffert-camp could muster up to say that would justify, ahem, what occurred here.

                                        And if Justify failed by naturally ingesting this in feed (hay or grain), then why did none of the other Baffert-camp horses fail their tests that week. The probability of them being fed the same hay and grain is highly likely.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by LaurieB View Post

                                          I dunno. I am the most anti-PETA, pro-racing person you could find on this BB and I still think the situation stinks.

                                          I do want to hear from Baffert, the horse's owners, and the CHRB though. They cannot just stay silent and hope this whole mess blows over.
                                          Thanks for giving your take on it... I have faith you are about as fair minded as is possible to be on this situation. To hear that you smell a rat is disheartening...

                                          Between this recent story, and the entire last season at Santa Anita... I feel terribly sad for the people working and training in the California TB industry who are NOT to blame for this mess. The arrogance and utter lack of ethics on the part of a select few really threatens to destroy the livelihood of many many more.

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