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Keeneland Sept

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  • Keeneland Sept

    Anything anyone is looking forward to?
    Big fan of Hip175. Tapit x Urban Ball (Ire). Urban Ball is by Galileo and out of a mare by Secretariat.
    Dam is a half sister to Sky Box who produced Perfect Soul .

    She is quite the looker:
    http://tmsaecatalog.com/19KEESEPT/100/hip/175
  • Original Poster

    #2
    1/2 to Justify just sold for $950,000 sired by Pioneer of the Nile

    Figured he would bring more. Considering his half brother is a triple crown winner and his sire already produced a triple crown winner. Add to that, there will not be anymore Pioneer of the Nile.

    He was a nice looking horse too, very correct, plenty of substance.

    Announcers and auctioneers were working it hard but couldn't get any more bids.

    Quite a bit of RNA's so far in book 1.

    Comment


    • #3
      the 1/2 to Justify was a RNA too.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
        1/2 to Justify just sold for $950,000 sired by Pioneer of the Nile
        Slight nit

        Pioneerof the Nile

        When you start to observe, you become more effective... your movements soften, you see more, you are more available to becoming a team member. Be an Observer first, a Handler second.

        Comment


        • #5
          The RNAs didn't seem excessive.

          Keeneland is always fun to watch. They are apparently making some nice improvements in and around the barns.

          Is anyone here present at the sale? Did you go this year LaurieB ?
          Last edited by skydy; Sep. 9, 2019, 11:09 PM. Reason: Spelling

          Comment


          • #6
            For those of a mind to look at the catalog

            http://flex.keeneland.com/saleindex/saleindex.html
            When you start to observe, you become more effective... your movements soften, you see more, you are more available to becoming a team member. Be an Observer first, a Handler second.

            Comment


            • #7
              Looking forward to seeing what Frosted has done. Honor Code as well (only two tomorrow). He hasn't had many in the sales that I've seen up until now.

              Expect that C.C.'s will be "all over the place" but will have to wait and see since he only has one in tomorrow's session.

              This is always such a fun sale to watch. It's really the first chance for us to see what the first crop sires have done.

              It is fun to see the cream at Saratoga, but at Keeneland there is a better representation of the new boys' get.

              Comment


              • #8
                skydy I've been there for 3 days so far. (Yearlings started showing Friday.) Only another 12 or so days to go.
                www.laurienberenson.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by LaurieB View Post
                  skydy I've been there for 3 days so far. (Yearlings started showing Friday.) Only another 12 or so days to go.
                  What do you think of the improvements? and the Honor Codes if you've had a chance to look. Do you have time to look around when you have one in the sale?

                  It must be a great time to see which stallions are producing a physical that you may consider to be a good match for your mares next season.

                  How are your weaners?
                  Last edited by skydy; Sep. 10, 2019, 12:07 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
                    1/2 to Justify just sold for $950,000 sired by Pioneer of the Nile

                    Figured he would bring more. Considering his half brother is a triple crown winner and his sire already produced a triple crown winner. Add to that, there will not be anymore Pioneer of the Nile.

                    He was a nice looking horse too, very correct, plenty of substance.

                    Announcers and auctioneers were working it hard but couldn't get any more bids.

                    Quite a bit of RNA's so far in book 1.
                    Article from BH that might be worth reading

                    While direct year-to-year comparisons are difficult because this year's Book 1 format consists of fewer horses, by any measure the session was a major success.
                    The buy-back rate also improved this year, with the 44 horses that went unsold representing a 29.1% RNA rate, compared with 34.9% in 2018.
                    While there were some top lots that changed hands during the session, one high-profile yearling went unsold on a final bid of $950,000 when Glennwood Farm bought back a half brother to Triple Crown winner Justify .

                    The buyback of the Pioneerof the Nile colt marked the second year breeder Glennwood has bought back a a half brother to Justify, having taken home a son of Will Take Charge on a $1.75 million final bid at the 2018 sale.

                    "I just felt that, if he's going to sell around that price, I'd be just as happy to race him," Glennwood's John Gunther said.



                    When you start to observe, you become more effective... your movements soften, you see more, you are more available to becoming a team member. Be an Observer first, a Handler second.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      How fun it must be to decide how much of an offer it would take for you to let them go. I can imagine that it might not be difficult when it is your homebred.

                      snaffle1987 an RNA is not a failure, you do understand that? It only reflects the owners price at which they are willing to part with the horse. I have no experience with TBs bred for the track. However, assuming you have owned horses at some point in time, you will understand that we've all had horses that we would:

                      1. Never sell.
                      2. Sell, but only for an exorbitant amount of money.
                      3. Sell for a fair offer.
                      4. Give away.

                      Owners that bring their horses to public auction obviously fall in category 2 or 3.

                      Commercial breeders, of course must consider the bottom line at some point, they can't keep them all.

                      Many people that have a private breeding program would rather keep and race then sell for less than they think the horse is worth, just as you would not sell your good hunter, jumper, fox-hunter, or eventer, for peanuts.

                      If there is a dispersal from an estate that is being liquidated you will sometimes see horses sold "without reserve". That's the same sort of "best offer" type of sale that happens with H/Js or any other type of performance horse that needs to be sold "now" for whatever reason.

                      It is painful to watch the yearling sales when some really nice ones don't even make their stud fee, especially knowing that they may turn out to be a world beater (in which case hopefully the owner has not sold !) but it's also thrilling to see a dedicated breeder whose hard work is rewarded when their homebred fetches a grand price.













                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by skydy View Post
                        Looking forward to seeing what Frosted has done. Honor Code as well (only two tomorrow). He hasn't had many in the sales that I've seen up until now.

                        Expect that C.C.'s will be "all over the place" but will have to wait and see since he only has one in tomorrow's session.

                        This is always such a fun sale to watch. It's really the first chance for us to see what the first crop sires have done.

                        It is fun to see the cream at Saratoga, but at Keeneland there is a better representation of the new boys' get.
                        I watched some of the CC's go through yesterday. I believe one was over 300k. All of them looked really, really good. Beautiful yearlings. Balanced, lots of presence. Not the heaviest built but I thought they all looked very nice. Would love to see some of them run on grass. They look like good turf potential.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post

                          Article from BH that might be worth reading









                          I just find it ironic that a Tapit half to Nyquist sells for 2.5 million but a half to a triple crown winner by a sire who is dead who has sired a triple crown winner would've been well over the 1 million mark. But I didn't review the POTN colt's medical records so who knows, there could've been something. He looked plenty big enough in the ring.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by skydy View Post
                            How fun it must be to decide how much of an offer it would take for you to let them go. I can imagine that it might not be difficult when it is your homebred.

                            snaffle1987 an RNA is not a failure, you do understand that? It only reflects the owners price at which they are willing to part with the horse. I have no experience with TBs bred for the track. However, assuming you have owned horses at some point in time, you will understand that we've all had horses that we would:

                            1. Never sell.
                            2. Sell, but only for an exorbitant amount of money.
                            3. Sell for a fair offer.
                            4. Give away.

                            Owners that bring their horses to public auction obviously fall in category 2 or 3.

                            Commercial breeders, of course must consider the bottom line at some point, they can't keep them all.

                            Many people that have a private breeding program would rather keep and race then sell for less than they think the horse is worth, just as you would not sell your good hunter, jumper, fox-hunter, or eventer, for peanuts.

                            If there is a dispersal from an estate that is being liquidated you will sometimes see horses sold "without reserve". That's the same sort of "best offer" type of sale that happens with H/Js or any other type of performance horse that needs to be sold "now" for whatever reason.

                            It is painful to watch the yearling sales when some really nice ones don't even make their stud fee, especially knowing that they may turn out to be a world beater (in which case hopefully the owner has not sold !) but it's also thrilling to see a dedicated breeder whose hard work is rewarded when their homebred fetches a grand price.












                            let me be clear I wasn't ridiculing the buy back rate. just point out that a lot of the consignments in book 1 were RNA's. I didn't get to see the entirety of the day 1. Tuned in when I could, checked the results here and there. Still haven't followed up on everything with the end of day 1.

                            I 100% agree with your last paragraph. Its a tough market. Lots of horses selling in 12 days. Lots of options for buyers. We live in a world where vetting yearlings is done with a fine tooth comb. Any issue, no matter how small, can have a major impact on bids when there are so many other options for buyers in the same sale. Sad to see them not cover their sire fees but that is the market and the auction environment

                            Sales-wise, I still think its a strong market for sellers. Lots of positive upswing. Now how many will justify their inflated prices on the track.... very few.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                              I just find it ironic that a Tapit half to Nyquist sells for 2.5 million but a half to a triple crown winner by a sire who is dead who has sired a triple crown winner would've been well over the 1 million mark. But I didn't review the POTN colt's medical records so who knows, there could've been something. He looked plenty big enough in the ring.
                              I'm not sure I understand the irony in that. A great pedigree will only get a horse so far. Then you have to bring the goods physically--even before the vetting comes into play.

                              What can be seen on a computer screen and what is visible in real life aren't the same thing. There were nicer yearlings available at the sale yesterday. This one will have every chance to succeed on the track with his breeders (unless they sell him privately before then.)
                              www.laurienberenson.com

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by skydy View Post

                                What do you think of the improvements? and the Honor Codes if you've had a chance to look. Do you have time to look around when you have one in the sale?

                                It must be a great time to see which stallions are producing a physical that you may consider to be a good match for your mares next season.
                                The improvements look great, although I'm sorry that so many mature trees were cut down. Some areas around the barns look naked without them. I haven't seen many Honor Codes yet (this sale). A friend of mine has a really lovely filly by him selling tomorrow. And yes, this sale is the best place to see what kind of offspring stallions are producing.

                                www.laurienberenson.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
                                  let me be clear I wasn't ridiculing the buy back rate. just point out that a lot of the consignments in book 1 were RNA's.
                                  A statement that still makes no sense to me as the article from BH points out. This year's RNA % was less than last year for roughly the same 'book' (given that this year the books were restructured a bit.) Less than 1/3 of the horses...

                                  When you start to observe, you become more effective... your movements soften, you see more, you are more available to becoming a team member. Be an Observer first, a Handler second.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post

                                    A statement that still makes no sense to me as the article from BH points out. This year's RNA % was less than last year for roughly the same 'book' (given that this year the books were restructured a bit.) Less than 1/3 of the horses...
                                    carry on where's my white. do you have any lots in the sale that catch your eye? what are you looking forward to in book 2.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                                      I watched some of the CC's go through yesterday. I believe one was over 300k. All of them looked really, really good. Beautiful yearlings. Balanced, lots of presence. Not the heaviest built but I thought they all looked very nice. Would love to see some of them run on grass. They look like good turf potential.
                                      There were two C.C.s. in the first session. They sold for 180k and 200k.

                                      What do you mean by "not the heaviest built"?

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by LaurieB View Post

                                        I'm not sure I understand the irony in that. A great pedigree will only get a horse so far. Then you have to bring the goods physically--even before the vetting comes into play.

                                        What can be seen on a computer screen and what is visible in real life aren't the same thing. There were nicer yearlings available at the sale yesterday. This one will have every chance to succeed on the track with his breeders (unless they sell him privately before then.)
                                        for sure, have to have the entirety of the pie if you want to sell well and command top price in the sales ring; regardless of sale. I don't doubt that there were better in the sale, there were. Need to keep in mind that Justify didn't command big, big figures. He had notables on his vetting. Many passed him over. He still won the triple crown and those who were at the upper echelon of that sale didn't amount to what he did, despite his vetting on sale day. American Pharoah was technically an RNA at 300k but was actually marked "sold" to Ingordo Bloodstock even though he never left his breeders hands.

                                        But on sale day; you need to have a clean vetting, have the pedigree, and physically look the part. If one of those pieces of the pie is missing, or compromised, the horse will be passed over. The last day of the sale is filled with horses with that issue: not the best pedigree, something in the vetting that is known, not the best appearance. Plenty of "deals" to be had for those non discriminant buyers and plenty of losses to be had for those consignors not wanting to take the horse back home.

                                        Comment

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