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How do you claim a horse?

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  • How do you claim a horse?

    The daughter of a broodmare I have is racing at Penn National soon, and I've thought about trying to claim her. I have no idea how to do this, and unfortunately I have to be in Boston the night she is running. How do you go about claiming a horse, and would there be any way to have an agent/trainer get her until I can pick her up?

  • #2
    You have to get a trainer or Owner or someone authorized to claim horses to claim for you. So go to track and ask trainers how to claim and pay someone to claim for you
    i don't think we who aren't in the biz can claim.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, you need a trainer to be able to claim a horse. Each track will have slightly different rules, a trainer at the track will know exactly what the rules are in that jurisdiction. You do not need to be there, you just put money in an account, and the trainer will do the rest. At some tracks, claimed horses may not leave the grounds for a certain amount of time, which may or may not be able to be got around.

      You need to start by contacting a trainer at Penn National.

      Good luck!
      www.cordovafarm.weebly.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Some tracks you have to have started at least once during the meet to be eligible to claim and others you have to have had a horse claimed from you to be eligible. I don’t believe there are any restrictions like that at Penn. If you PM me the name I may Be able to give you an idea whether they may be open to an outright purchase instead of a claim which would be incredibly easier for you.
        McDowell Racing Stables

        Home Away From Home

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        • #5
          Strange, claiming a horse you've never seen, obviously not to race or breed for racing.
          "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post
            Strange, claiming a horse you've never seen, obviously not to race or breed for racing.
            I think it is not strange at all.
            I tried to find Callie's 6 foals to buy. And Cloudy's mutter in Europe to buy.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
              I think it is not strange at all.
              I tried to find Callie's 6 foals to buy. And Cloudy's mutter in Europe to buy.
              You'd spend thousands of dollars on a horse sight unseen? No video, no pics, no performance records other than racing? I have one right now I'll sell you!!!!!
              "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                I have seen video of the mare (equibase) and of course, I know her dam quite well. She is also a warhorse who should be nearing retirement soon, so that in itself speaks volumes. Thanks for the input. I have tried contacting the trainers, but will try again, as this seems to be the easiest route.
                Last edited by va2txrider; Mar. 9, 2019, 11:07 AM. Reason: wrong website

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post
                  Strange, claiming a horse you've never seen, obviously not to race or breed for racing.
                  I’m not a breeder, but it doesn’t seem particularly odd to me. If I had a broodmare that I like for my program, it would seem to make sense to seek out more like her, and a daughter would seem a reasonable gamble. If she is actively racing, she is at least orthopedically sound enough to be cleared to race. All sorts of people get animals from auctions, rescues, “kill pens” with much less in the way of information or assurances that it’s going to work out. Some people are less risk-averse than others, particularly if the price is right, particularly if they have the ability and psychology to do something else with the horse if their original plan doesn’t work out (re-train as a sport horse if she’s not fertile, for example). Others want the whole nine yards, proven performance in what THEY want to do with the horse, PPE (with rads or even a bone scan; uterine biopsy for a broodmare prospect), test rides, trial period, etc. If you’re blowing a wad and want to gun for some kind of championship or breed to really high-end stallion for the foal of your dreams, probably a good idea. But not everybody is in that sort of situation.

                  Then, I’m somebody that bought a Mustang at an auction based on nothing but a few Facebooks posts, one competition almost entirely irrelevant to what I want to do (where he was strictly mediocre in terms of score), some messages, and a nose scratch.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Toblersmom View Post

                    I’m not a breeder, but it doesn’t seem particularly odd to me. If I had a broodmare that I like for my program, it would seem to make sense to seek out more like her, and a daughter would seem a reasonable gamble.
                    But would you pay thousands of dollars for her, sight unseen? No picture, no video, nothing? THAT is what would be odd. And I believe the bottom at Penn, or Parx, or wherever the horse is, is about $4,000.

                    And any mare with any kind of pedigree and conformation would have been claimed well above that price.
                    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I agree with Laurierace that it would be easier and probably cheaper to try to buy the horse. You may have to pay the claiming price, or more, or less if you are lucky and they want to sell.

                      However, I was going to add to my previous post, do you understand the need to keep some secrecy in this plan? If they refuse to sell, you MUST keep your identity private, if you wish to claim. If they get wind that the horse is going to be claimed, they can annul the claim if they know who you are. The other issue is the trainer that you choose to do the claim for you. You must be very careful who you choose, and since I presume you do not know the trainers at this track personally, you don't know who to go to. If trainer A is the trainer of the horse you wish to claim, and trainer B is the trainer you ask to claim the horse, trainer A may be friends with trainer B, and will tell trainer A about the plan rather than go through with the claim for you as a favour to their friend. Or Trainer A may not be "able" to claim from trainer B (there IS SOME honour among thieves), there are people that you simply can not claim a horse from. So when you contact a trainer about this potential claim, your first question, BEFORE you tell them the name of the horse you wish to claim would be, "Are you able to claim a horse for me from this trainer?" If the answer is "no", you need to say no more, and find a different trainer to do the claim for you. If the answer is "Yes", then you can proceed to identify the horse you want to claim, and the deed can be done for you. The best situation would be a response like, "Oh yes, I would LOVE to claim a horse off that arsehole for you". It is necessary to play the cards pretty close to your chest to get a claim done. The fewer people who know about it in advance the better.

                      Also keep in mind that the trainer you are using to claim is not getting the advantage that most race trainers would expect when they acquire a new owner and a new horse in their barn. They are not going to be racing this horse for you as an owner, they are simply buying it for you and delivering it into your care as a retired horse. So there is little compensation for this for them. You will have to sweeten the pot for them to do this for you. It isn't going to add to this trainer's racing string, he isn't going to be gaining a new racing owner for the long term, which is what he would prefer. Keep this in mind during this transaction, if it comes off. The racetrack also does NOT want to lose a horse off the grounds, lose an entry to fill their races. Keep a lot of this information private. Good luck. I'm not going to comment on whether this is a good idea to do or not, that is YOUR business, and YOUR decision.
                      www.cordovafarm.weebly.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        NancyM "If they get wind that the horse is going to be claimed, they can annul the claim if they know who you are." Is that a Canadian thing? I'm not familiar with the practice.
                        "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post
                          NancyM "If they get wind that the horse is going to be claimed, they can annul the claim if they know who you are." Is that a Canadian thing? I'm not familiar with the practice.
                          Not a Canadian thing that I recall but a BC thing, just like some jurisdictions say you cannot remove a claimed horse from the track for X days or until the meet has ended; this is common when horses are short and they can barely fill races. Here, in Saskatchewan, you can claim a scratched horse and only the race office can declare a claim null and void.

                          But, it is a Canadian thing to warn the trainer that a horse is going and the smaller the venue the more likely that the claimant will tell the owner or trainer and sometimes even ask if they can especially a mare they wish to take as a broodmare and a deal is often made after the card rather than going through the paperwork
                          Founder of the Dyslexic Clique. Dyslexics of the world - UNTIE!!

                          Member: Incredible Invisbles

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I know that trainers can return a horse they claimed if it's not sound in some jurisdictions, but for what other reason would the racing office void a claim if the owner/trainer is compliant with all the claiming rules and regs? NancyM stated, "If they get wind that the horse is going to be claimed, they can annul the claim if they know who you are." I'm not sure how they can just annul a valid claim.
                            "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Trainers can not annul a claim but they can scratch the horse if they get wind that someone is claiming their horse for sure. I think that may be where the confusion lies.
                              McDowell Racing Stables

                              Home Away From Home

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Some good tips here.

                                https://www.thoughtco.com/claim-a-horse-1879292

                                You could also cast an eye over the mare's recent winnings and just approach trainer saying you are interested in her as a broodmare prospect. If you think she is slowing down, dropping in speed winnings and category of race, they might be happy to sell her on now or soon.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                                  But would you pay thousands of dollars for her, sight unseen? No picture, no video, nothing? THAT is what would be odd. And I believe the bottom at Penn, or Parx, or wherever the horse is, is about $4,000.

                                  And any mare with any kind of pedigree and conformation would have been claimed well above that price.
                                  Maybe.

                                  It's certainly no stranger than people setting up "custom foal" breedings or purchasing foals in utero (generally for a great deal more overall cost than $4k, I believe), or paying a premium when buying a mare in foal based on the expected value of the unborn baby. Just being able to look up the race record is a lot more information and assurance of getting an actual adult, useable for SOMETHING, horse out of the deal as compared to spending thousands on a handful of reproductive cells that may or may not die of pneumonia when it's a month old, or have significant soundness problems when brought into work, etc. Those purchases are made based entirely on pedigree, can't have photos or video of a foal that hasn't been born (and in some cases, conceived) yet. Would you think it weird if OP paid to breed the mare back to the same stallion as produced the filly she's interested in, and spent however much money on stud fees, mare upkeep, foal upkeep, young horse upkeep for however many years old this filly is? Probably not.

                                  Pedigree and conformation that's appealing in the race market may not be the same as for the sport horse market, and potentially wouldn't even be the same in all race markets.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    We are talking about Penn National here! Not Saratoga or Belmont.

                                    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                                    Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post
                                      NancyM "If they get wind that the horse is going to be claimed, they can annul the claim if they know who you are." Is that a Canadian thing? I'm not familiar with the practice.
                                      Oh Gawd, it been a famous situation here many times. Claims annulled, horse goes back to it's old barn. News of a horse getting claimed in advance of it happening getting to the wrong ears, owners don't want it claimed, and all hell breaks loose. Dunno if this is everywhere, I presumed it was. Is it not like this where you are? A horse drops down in price, and who knows why? Cheating to find an easy field and steal a win? Or a problem is brewing and they are hoping someone is going to take the horse? 8 claims in for a horse dropping from allowance to $5000 claiming. Previous trainer was fired by owners, told EVERYONE to claim the horse as payback. All claims annulled. Trainer who dropped the horse thought he was a cheap nicklebred bum. Horse later the same year won our Derby. Same trainer. The horse was my horse's gallop and work partner the year before. It was amazing. One of the 8 claims claimed to be legitimate, that he had not talked to the previous trainer, just thought the horse looked like a good buy. But still didn't get the horse. Steward's decision. Owners proved that "all" claims had "prior knowledge" about the horse (due to previous trainer imparting knowledge). Stewards annul the claim when the seller complains about previous knowledge of the claim.

                                      If you want to claim a horse from somebody who does not want to lose it, don't advertise in advance.

                                      Again, simply buying the horse would be way easier. Put in a decent offer, not too low. A thousand or so below claiming price. If they will sell, but not at that price, they should accept the claiming price, or slightly above the claiming price if they scratch the horse (enough to cover the value if the horse had been claimed, and a placing in the race). If they want to run the horses, not scratch, they will accept the claiming price after the race, but if the horse hurts itself or dies in the race, you do not have to buy it. If they don't come back with accepting an offer like that, then you have to claim if you want to own her. You can buy claiming insurance for if the horse dies or terminally breaks down in the race. But if they know your name, and can name you to the stewards, can prove that you have had the opportunity to look closely at the horse, inspect her in the stall etc, claim would be annulled.
                                      Last edited by NancyM; Mar. 9, 2019, 07:28 PM.
                                      www.cordovafarm.weebly.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        That has never happened in the US. Ever. My very first horse has two claims dropped on her by two separate trainers. The next day I got word that my former horse was in the barn of the trainer who lost the shake so I protested the claim. The stewards made them turn her over to the winning trainer even though he did not want her. They did not void it and return her to me. Two weeks later she was dead.
                                        McDowell Racing Stables

                                        Home Away From Home

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