Stallion Spotlight

Zucchero Gold - Wandres, Frederic - 838-BC18_REU2723-foto_reumann

Real Estate Spotlight

BarnApartmentFront
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Santa Anita- do you think somethings up?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by LaurieB View Post

    No, it's cheaper (and smarter) to prevent bleeding than it is to have to deal with a bleeding episode.

    Just like it's cheaper and smarter to wear a seatbelt than it is to deal with the effects of going face-first through a windshield.
    But Laurie... thousands of people are injured by seatbelts every year. Bruising, whiplash, etc. Doctors are getting rich off of these seatbelt injuries. Why do think they are in support of them?

    Also, are you really so cheap that you wouldn't want to pay for the proper medical treatment if you went through the windshield?

    And I just found an article online about someone who was trapped in their vehicle after an accident due to their seatbelt.

    Here's another article about someone who tried to hide drugs in their seatbelt. Horrible. Clearly that's why everyone is using them.

    Plenty of countries don't require users to wear seatbelts. Some places don't even put seatbelts in their vehicles. These users have evolved to survive going through the windshield. If we'd stop using them, we'd evolve, too.

    I don't wear a seatbelt when I ride around on my nephew's Fisher Price Power Wheels vehicle. One time he crashed it into the tree and no one had any problems.

    If Americans feel like they need seatbelts to remain safe in cars, maybe they should consider just giving cars up for something like airplanes. You're allowed to take your seatbelt off on airplanes. There are places in Alaska and Canada where everyone travels by planes. They don't even have roads.
    Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

    Comment


    • ^^^ that is liable to go over some people’s heads! Lol
      McDowell Racing Stables

      Home Away From Home

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
        ^^^ that is liable to go over some people’s heads! Lol
        I probably need to put a disclaimer on it. Either that, or everyone is going to think Texarkana is really anti-seatbelt.
        Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Texarkana View Post

          But Laurie... thousands of people are injured by seatbelts every year. Bruising, whiplash, etc. Doctors are getting rich off of these seatbelt injuries. Why do think they are in support of them?

          Also, are you really so cheap that you wouldn't want to pay for the proper medical treatment if you went through the windshield?

          And I just found an article online about someone who was trapped in their vehicle after an accident due to their seatbelt.

          Here's another article about someone who tried to hide drugs in their seatbelt. Horrible. Clearly that's why everyone is using them.

          Plenty of countries don't require users to wear seatbelts. Some places don't even put seatbelts in their vehicles. These users have evolved to survive going through the windshield. If we'd stop using them, we'd evolve, too.

          I don't wear a seatbelt when I ride around on my nephew's Fisher Price Power Wheels vehicle. One time he crashed it into the tree and no one had any problems.

          If Americans feel like they need seatbelts to remain safe in cars, maybe they should consider just giving cars up for something like airplanes. You're allowed to take your seatbelt off on airplanes. There are places in Alaska and Canada where everyone travels by planes. They don't even have roads.
          Priceless!

          Comment


          • Thanks guys, I needed this laugh


            Maybe the reason I love animals so much is because the only time they have broken my heart is when they've crossed that rainbow bridge

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Texarkana View Post

              But Laurie... thousands of people are injured by seatbelts every year. Bruising, whiplash, etc. Doctors are getting rich off of these seatbelt injuries. Why do think they are in support of them?

              Also, are you really so cheap that you wouldn't want to pay for the proper medical treatment if you went through the windshield?

              And I just found an article online about someone who was trapped in their vehicle after an accident due to their seatbelt.

              Here's another article about someone who tried to hide drugs in their seatbelt. Horrible. Clearly that's why everyone is using them.

              Plenty of countries don't require users to wear seatbelts. Some places don't even put seatbelts in their vehicles. These users have evolved to survive going through the windshield. If we'd stop using them, we'd evolve, too.

              I don't wear a seatbelt when I ride around on my nephew's Fisher Price Power Wheels vehicle. One time he crashed it into the tree and no one had any problems.

              If Americans feel like they need seatbelts to remain safe in cars, maybe they should consider just giving cars up for something like airplanes. You're allowed to take your seatbelt off on airplanes. There are places in Alaska and Canada where everyone travels by planes. They don't even have roads.

              Best post ever.
              www.laurienberenson.com

              Comment


              • If it's so prudent, then why is race day Lasix banned in the rest of the world? Are you saying that all of them are fools? That they deliberately abuse horses, and American racing is so much more concerned about their horses?
                "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                Thread killer Extraordinaire

                Comment


                • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                  If it's so prudent, then why is race day Lasix banned in the rest of the world? Are you saying that all of them are fools? That they deliberately abuse horses, and American racing is so much more concerned about their horses?
                  After reading through all this I think it’s a matter of risk. Never mind I am so tired of hearing “this is how other countries do it” for all things life, it’s a matter of prevention vs risk if everything goes wrong. By you’re logic preventative medicine shouldn’t be a thing.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                    If it's so prudent, then why is race day Lasix banned in the rest of the world? Are you saying that all of them are fools? That they deliberately abuse horses, and American racing is so much more concerned about their horses?
                    Other countries speak different languages too. Does that mean we're wrong to speak English?

                    Viney, I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish here. You don't have racehorses. You dislike the TB breed. You think racetrack people are wrong about everything.

                    Bottom line: you don't have a dog in this fight. Endlessly berating the people who do doesn't seem to be getting you anywhere.

                    What's the point?
                    www.laurienberenson.com

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                      If it's so prudent, then why is race day Lasix banned in the rest of the world? Are you saying that all of them are fools? That they deliberately abuse horses, and American racing is so much more concerned about their horses?
                      I know you love thoroughbreds. I know this concerns you. But many posters on this thread have tried nicely (and not so nicely in my case) to try to help you understand the whole picture. Every time, you come back with an extremist response.

                      You have some of the greatest knowledge of anyone I "know" regarding sport performances of 20th century thoroughbreds. I don't understand how someone can be so knowledgeable in one sense, yet so willfully unable to consider perspective in other situations.

                      Lasix and EIPH are complicated issues. It's not quite as simple as saying "no one in the rest of the world uses it so one side must be right and the other side must be wrong."

                      I get particularly touchy about conversations like these because once upon a time, I was a teenage know-it-all from the sporthorse world who loved thoroughbreds and KNEW the racing industry was ruining them with their ignorance and bad practices. I mean, everyone said so, so it had to be true. Then I started working with racehorses, put my foot in my mouth no less than a thousand times, and finally started realizing that maybe I didn't know what I didn't know. Now when I see/hear others doing the same, I feel obligated to speak up so they don't have to go around putting their foot in their mouth like I did.
                      Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                        I'm sure the AAEP members make a lot of money off furosemide prescriptions.
                        In many jurisdictions, the state vet administers race day Lasix and private vets are not allowed anywhere near a horse that is entered to race on race day. In general, a shot of Lasix is $20-25, and only the bad bleeders usually get it before a work. So, not really much of a profit generator.
                        "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                          If it's so prudent, then why is race day Lasix banned in the rest of the world? Are you saying that all of them are fools? That they deliberately abuse horses...?
                          You do know they can train on Lasix, just can't give it on race day. Oh, and they do things like pull water buckets 36 hours before a race to achieve the same dehydrating effects a shot of Lasix attains in 4 hours.
                          "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                          Comment


                          • I know they can train on lasix. But it's pretty clear that Lasix most likely has other effects that enhance performance other than just stopping bleeding. For instance it may also serve as an alkanizing agent in the blood, at least per one study. Dehydration without lasix would logically be a performance detriment, not an enhancement. And lasix has been found to disrupt the calcium system which is essential for mineralization of bone for 72 hours after administration. If that's true, then for 72 hours after extreme exercise that is the probable cause of microfractures, the bone healing system doesn't work as it ought to. That's a risk that needs more research, and the long term effects haven't yet been determined.
                            Last edited by vineyridge; Jul. 12, 2019, 12:06 PM.
                            "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                            Thread killer Extraordinaire

                            Comment


                            • If trainer Elliott Burch was talking enthusiastically about the potential for this new drug to stop bleeding (Lasix) almost 50 years ago, wouldn't long-term effects be evident or hinted at by now?

                              Comment


                              • An interesting analysis in today's LATimes:
                                https://www.latimes.com/sports/more/...711-story.html

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by betonbill View Post
                                  If trainer Elliott Burch was talking enthusiastically about the potential for this new drug to stop bleeding (Lasix) almost 50 years ago, wouldn't long-term effects be evident or hinted at by now?
                                  Maybe they are. Decreased numbers of starts may be an indicator. The general perception that TBs are more fragile now. The fact that horses over 4 who have been racing on lasix longer have highest death rate.
                                  "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                  Thread killer Extraordinaire

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by TCA Arabians View Post
                                    An interesting analysis in today's LATimes:
                                    https://www.latimes.com/sports/more/...711-story.html
                                    Statistics might not tell the whole story? Say what? That's crazy talk.

                                    (I hope you can tell I typed that in my sarcasm font)
                                    Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post

                                      Maybe they are. Decreased numbers of starts may be an indicator. The general perception that TBs are more fragile now. The fact that horses over 4 who have been racing on lasix longer have highest death rate.
                                      [Sarcasm font]

                                      I mean, obviously, the only thing that has changed in racing over the past 50 years is Lasix. There are no other factors possibly at play here.

                                      [/Sarcasm font]
                                      Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                                      Comment


                                      • Thank God for you, Texarkana. You have more patience than I do.
                                        www.laurienberenson.com

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by LaurieB View Post
                                          Thank God for you, Texarkana. You have more patience than I do.
                                          I appreciate that you think I'm being patient. I'm really just being snarky at this point.

                                          I think the Lasix debate is a serious one. I don't like to see it dominated by misinterpreted statistics and perceptions.

                                          Racing welfare reform is SO hard. Racing is inherently dangerous, yet people always seem to forget that fact when pointing fingers...
                                          Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X