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The Triple Crown Races 2019

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    Originally posted by On the Farm View Post

    Look at LRT's charts and that is his running style and whether he would have carried on for a share of the purse is anyone's guess, but my velocity calculations showed that his Derby finish was only slightly worse than his Arkansas Derby effort. I think LRT would have been compromised by the distance, bumping or no bumping I know the stewards aren't handicappers per se and shouldn't let that figure into their decisions, but I'm just saying what is the point of claiming foul if it doesn't really help you other than saying "if I can't win then I'm going to make sure the other guy doesn't." I don't respect that and I tend to subscribe to Gaffalione's attitude. Just a side note, when was the last time we had a KY Derby winner who was still eligible for non-winners allowance conditions?
    Because the stewards and objections aren’t JUST there to change the winning order of the race, they’re also to keep things running safely as per the rules of the track/state/organization/etc the race is run under? This is why intent isn’t relevant - if your horse is a horse and freaks out in some unsafe way and breaks the rules, you should get penalized. Otherwise people will just blame everything on the horse being a horse when really they’re not training properly, which leads to worse safety issues. Racing especially cannot afford more safety issues, PARTICULARLY in the big televised races. Sometimes that means you get DQ’d when the horse really WAS just being a horse. That’s the risk of a sport that depends on the cooperation of a critter with a mind of it’s own. Don’t like it, go race cars or motorcycles or something.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Rackonteur View Post

      I wonder why there was no aerial view of this race. I remember in some previous years there was an aerial view. Hmm ... was Goodyear busy with its blimp elsewhere this year?
      I don't think the weather was very conducive for the blimp.

      Comment


        Originally posted by kdow View Post

        Because the stewards and objections aren’t JUST there to change the winning order of the race, they’re also to keep things running safely as per the rules of the track/state/organization/etc the race is run under? This is why intent isn’t relevant - if your horse is a horse and freaks out in some unsafe way and breaks the rules, you should get penalized. Otherwise people will just blame everything on the horse being a horse when really they’re not training properly, which leads to worse safety issues. Racing especially cannot afford more safety issues, PARTICULARLY in the big televised races. Sometimes that means you get DQ’d when the horse really WAS just being a horse. That’s the risk of a sport that depends on the cooperation of a critter with a mind of it’s own. Don’t like it, go race cars or motorcycles or something.
        Again, my issue is with who did claim foul. Prat's claim was frivolous from the get go. Court's horse pretty much ran true to form, yet he took the opportunity to gain one spot in the finish order with no additional benefit. Gaffalione did get mugged but chose not to complain for the very reasons that I've been pushing. If he had then I would be more accepting. The stewards never posted an Inquiry, so would they have even looked at it if no one had objected? They made the call they felt they had to make, but again my issue is in regard as to who put them in that fix.

        Comment


          Originally posted by On the Farm View Post

          Again, my issue is with who did claim foul. Prat's claim was frivolous from the get go.
          Hardly. The horse is now a G1 winner. I would expect nothing less from any rider.

          Comment


            Maximum Security is aiming for the Haskell next, July 20th. While I am sure some politics go into Mr. Wests decision with skipping the Belmont; I don't blame them for going with the Haskell. Horse gets a break, and then gets to race in a respected G1 at his home track. I don't think the Belmont is conducive to his front running style. Seems like a pretty smart decision to me.

            I am willing to bet Omaha Beach shows up at the Haskell. Then he will head a little bit north to TOGA to run the Travers. It makes sense. He needs 3 weeks off for his surgery and then they will bring him back into training. He wont be ready for the Belmont in early July so will need an end of July race to set him up for the end of Aug Travers.

            So while all the other 3 yr olds are getting burnt out in the TC races, Omaha Beach has found himself a nice little 3 week rest to start off an awesome summer campaign. But he will need to spend some time on the east coast.

            Comment


              The Belmont is early June not early July so there is no way Omaha Beach will be ready for that.
              McDowell Racing Stables

              Remarkable Leather Goods
              Triple Stitched Halters, Hand Made To Order in US

              Comment


                Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                So while all the other 3 yr olds are getting burnt out in the TC races, Omaha Beach has found himself a nice little 3 week rest to start off an awesome summer campaign. But he will need to spend some time on the east coast.
                A nice 3 week rest? He’s recovering from surgery. You have got to be the person who gets their information from Facebook. There really is no other explanation as to how you arrive at your conclusions.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                  A nice 3 week rest? He’s recovering from surgery. You have got to be the person who gets their information from Facebook. There really is no other explanation as to how you arrive at your conclusions.
                  Actually the recovery period from this surgery is about three weeks. Had it many times over the years. That doesn't mean they are ready to race in 3 weeks though. He will probably start back with some tack walking then jog or pony for a bit before galloping.
                  McDowell Racing Stables

                  Remarkable Leather Goods
                  Triple Stitched Halters, Hand Made To Order in US

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                    Hardly. The horse is now a G1 winner. I would expect nothing less from any rider.
                    But Prat's claim was disallowed as well it should have been. He's a G1 winner because of Jon Court, not due to anything that happened to his horse.

                    Comment


                      Like always, Steve comes through with the best summation I have seen of this fiasco so far. Excellent piece.
                      http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse...wyF7cxtDAimvD8
                      McDowell Racing Stables

                      Remarkable Leather Goods
                      Triple Stitched Halters, Hand Made To Order in US

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Laurierace View Post

                        Actually the recovery period from this surgery is about three weeks. Had it many times over the years. That doesn't mean they are ready to race in 3 weeks though. He will probably start back with some tack walking then jog or pony for a bit before galloping.
                        That’s what I meant. Re-reading my post I wasn’t clear. I wouldn’t call 3 week recovery time a nice rest.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by On the Farm View Post
                          Again, my issue is with who did claim foul. Prat's claim was frivolous from the get go.
                          Maybe Pratt's a quick thinker on his feet but in some of his post race interviews he said that County House wasn't interfered with but that Maximum Security did interfere with others and he wanted the interference reviewed.

                          Wonder if Pratt would have objected if the inquiry sign had been lit??? (yup, me again on inquiry vs objection ).
                          Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth, And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings; John Gilliespie Magee, Jr

                          Comment


                            I actually think the biggest issue with this whole thing is the lack of an inquiry. Sometimes the path you take to a destination does matter even if you end up in the same place. They owed it to everyone to take the onus off the jocks so I agree with you WMW although none of that matters now.
                            McDowell Racing Stables

                            Remarkable Leather Goods
                            Triple Stitched Halters, Hand Made To Order in US

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by On the Farm View Post

                              But Prat's claim was disallowed as well it should have been. He's a G1 winner because of Jon Court, not due to anything that happened to his horse.
                              Not sure why you are trying to turn this into an argument, Prat only needed the winner to come down, he did not need to have the stewards uphold his claim. He rode an excellent race, just got beat by a better horse.

                              Comment


                                Thank you for that link, Laurierace . I especially like this (from the Steve Haskin wrote and Laurie linked in post #550):



                                But what they should do is acknowledge that this was the Kentucky Derby, with its huge field and often becoming a bumper car race where far more egregious events have occurred with no action taken. With this decision they have turned the Derby, at least this year’s, into a race like any other that will have a profound effect on future Derbys, with a likely influx of foul claims for any kind of infraction, whether minor or major.



                                His statement about "far more egregious events have occurred with no action taken" is the point I was making citing Genuine Risk and Codex in the Preakness far upthread. Not that two (or more) wrongs make a right, as Laurie questioned (but after all who says any of those other decisions were right or wrong - that's not the point, the point is that they were the precedents) -- i.e., the precedent of how the rules of racing have been applied in the TC races in the past has been that, again as Steve Haskin put it, far more egregious things have occurred with no setdowns.

                                I also feel like the observation that WoW ran up MS's butt -- and that contributed to the situation, or perhaps was a separate foul of its own (????) has a lot of merit, but I understand that different people will look at the same things and interpret them very differently.

                                In questioning MS's setdown I am not, as some have outright said in this thread, uncaring of safety for jockeys, horses, and all involved. My concern is that I DO worry this decision somehow seemed fundamentally to be in a different direction or spirit than such decisions have been in the past (again, reference the other incidents that have been given as examples in this thread). It feels to me like a bit of a sea change in interpretation of the rules, and the lack of inquiry and the source of the objection and so on all plays into this feeling.

                                And I could not agree more strongly with Haskin's statement about influx of foul claims -- that was also a point I was trying to make upthread, though I'm sure I was nowhere near as clear or eloquent. Carried to an extreme, racing could become more about adjudication than who crosses the finish line first.

                                Again, that doesn't mean I'm blase about human and horse safety! I just hate how this race has left me feeling, at least for now, about the Derby, the other TC races, racing in general, just ugh. I hate that the almost-pileup occurred, I hate that MS's efforts did not result in an official win, I admire WoW for staying on his feet -- but overall, the whole situation just casts a pall imo. And that worries me for racing. But that's just me.
                                If thou hast a sorrow, tell it not to the arrow, tell it to thy saddlebow, and ride on, singing. -- King Alfred the Great

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                                  A nice 3 week rest? He’s recovering from surgery. You have got to be the person who gets their information from Facebook. There really is no other explanation as to how you arrive at your conclusions.
                                  yes, in 3 weeks he can resume to start weaning back into work. As Laurie B noted, he will likely come back walking, then jogging, building up strength and ultimately a return to breezing and then race.

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                                    yes, in 3 weeks he can resume to start weaning back into work. As Laurie B noted, he will likely come back walking, then jogging, building up strength and ultimately a return to breezing and then race.
                                    You equated recovering from surgery with randomly deciding not to run in the Preakness or Belmont. That was my issue. Laurierace explained the rehab process not Laurie B.

                                    Comment


                                      I saw a good interview about this.

                                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRu0x2hzSks

                                      I'm kinda with Bob Baffert on this. While I don't believe that the Kentucky Derby should be governed by different rules than any other race, I do believe that Country House's people should have kept their mouths shut and been grown-ups. They got the money, but Country House will never get the glory. He got into the country club, but his connections did not deserve it. And I think he is a good horse, better than some people are saying. Anytime such a longshot can hang on for a mile and a quarter and come in second out of such a big field, that longshot is a good horse.

                                      I think that the stewards' decision has done history no favors, the Derby no favors, and, therefore, has done horse racing no good. Walter Farley said it decades ago, in one of his books, "Anything can happen in the Derby." It is run in early May. It is a race for 3-year-old babies. It is a rough n' tumble event. I think CH's people should have just put their big-boy britches on and let it go. And the stewards could have been good cops and said "Let this be a warning to all. Try not to let it happen again."
                                      Rack on!

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
                                        Maximum Security is aiming for the Haskell next, July 20th. While I am sure some politics go into Mr. Wests decision with skipping the Belmont; I don't blame them for going with the Haskell. Horse gets a break, and then gets to race in a respected G1 at his home track. I don't think the Belmont is conducive to his front running style. Seems like a pretty smart decision to me.

                                        I am willing to bet Omaha Beach shows up at the Haskell. Then he will head a little bit north to TOGA to run the Travers. It makes sense. He needs 3 weeks off for his surgery and then they will bring him back into training. He wont be ready for the Belmont in early July so will need an end of July race to set him up for the end of Aug Travers.

                                        So while all the other 3 yr olds are getting burnt out in the TC races, Omaha Beach has found himself a nice little 3 week rest to start off an awesome summer campaign. But he will need to spend some time on the east coast.
                                        I disagree about Omaha Beach. Country House, however, has gotten "a nice little rest" that has gotten him out of the Preakness and maybe the Belmont. I want the best for him as I do for any other horse. But I'm not buying the "cough" story. Too much like Omaha Beach's all-too-believable (sadly) cough.
                                        Rack on!

                                        Comment


                                          I read posts where people say that there was no hold for WoW to move into. I wonder about that. Because:

                                          There is not a jocky in the race who is:

                                          a) Suicidal
                                          b) a slouch at their job
                                          c) inexperienced

                                          I believe that the riders were all pretty experienced and good at their game. I don't accept any premise that Tyler was suicidal in attempting to move into a hole that wasn't there. That would be the sort of mistake that wouldn't be worthy of the skill and level of riding these people play at. I think there was a hole, and it closed just as quickly as a horse can spook. We all know how fast that can be.

                                          I wish the blimp had been filming.
                                          “It’s up to you the voters to decide the future of our democracy. So get out and vote. ... As Abraham Lincoln said, the best way to predict the future is to choose it.” Professor Allan Lichtman

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