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The Triple Crown Races 2019

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  • Originally posted by EventerAJ View Post

    Perhaps 20 horses is too many, but the Wests had two entered... Complaining about field size after your front runner played bumper cars doesn't have much weight.
    Thank you for that rich little nugget of information.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Countrygirl18 View Post
      Good to put the horses health first. That’s the most important thing.

      my goodness though...I think this TC has just been one mess after another ever since the Wednesday Omaha Beach scratched. Sure glad we got to see the Triple Crown in 2015 and last year.
      "this Triple Crown"??? It doesn't exist. There are 3 races every year that, if one horse wins all 3, that horse wins the Triple Crown.

      Some people look at it every year as if it were a series, like the World Series. It is not. There IS no Triple Crown in any given year unless and until one horse wins the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness and the Belmont.
      Rack on!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sunflower View Post
        Triple Crown winners are the exception and not the rule. Very much an exception. I wonder if some of the new to racing fans in this thread are aware of the great gaps of time between Triple Crown winners-- the gap from Citation to Secretariat, the gap from Affirmed to American Pharaoh. That there were 2 winners in 3 years is unusual-- very-- and it may well be decades again before there is another Triple Crown winner. Which does not make this year a bad year. What is happening is just horse racing. There have been far sadder events in prior years, think of Eight Belles and Barbaro.

        Everyone lived to walk away from a potential deadly pile up in the Derby stretch. And in light of that, everything else pales. Really. It does.
        And considering that the first horse to win the Triple Crown was Sir Barton, in 1919, and that it was not even dubbed the Triple Crown until a second horse won the same three races, more than 10 years later ...

        And that the Belmont was first run in 1866, the Preakness in 1873, and the Kentucky Derby in 1875, and that no horse won all three until 1919 ...
        Rack on!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Larksmom View Post
          Isn't it Ironic, that Country House is the son of Lookin' at Lucky, who was crushed at the gate, with Garrett Gomez in the irons in the Derby for whatever year it was? IIRC, Baffert was very disappointed in GG's ride and took him down as stable jock. They KNEW there would be a scrum, but he had the inside post and I think he was not a tearaway bolt from the gate. I always hated that. What with the giant field he never made up the lost place in the field, But I think he finished second and was charging hard at the finish. (my memory is spotty. Some things I remember clearly, some I only have a vague memory of.)
          The 2010 Derby. Similar track conditions, and another ride by "Calvin Bo'rail"--
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxO0EKlYv0k
          Rack on!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DarkBayUnicorn View Post

            Thank you!

            Mark has always struck me as a class act. And yes, WoW is one stunning hunka hunka burnin' love!
            In one news story he was mistakenly referred to as Will To Win.

            I hope he comes back and wins the Preakness and the Belmont.

            Rack on!

            Comment


            • This should have been the atmosphere at the Kentucky Derby. A fall near the end, but no inquiry or complaints lodged. Nobody spooked at the spectators. Just a good race, and a favorite coming back to win.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUPH4JCShv8

              Rack on!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Countrygirl18 View Post
                Good to put the horses health first. That’s the most important thing.

                my goodness though...I think this TC has just been one mess after another ever since the Wednesday Omaha Beach scratched. Sure glad we got to see the Triple Crown in 2015 and last year.
                I'm not really sure Country House's connections are "putting his health first". A race horse with a cough isn't going to be able to train or race at the level that these races would be (ie, coming up, the Preakness next). If County House can't train, not gonna put him in a race just to let him struggle and look bad.

                As many have said, what's with "this TC"? There is a chance every year for 1 horse to win the TC. Most years, it doesn't happen. Don't need a "mess" for no TC. We went 37, yes 37 years without a Triple Crown winner. Seems like you've already awarded the TC to a horse that didn't even run in the Derby (Omaha Beach). Omaha Beach would have to try to prove himself just like every other Derby winner to then win the Preakness followed by the Belmont. It's just not that easy.
                When you start to observe, you become more effective... your movements soften, you see more, you are more available to becoming a team member. Be an Observer first, a Handler second.

                Comment


                • Regarding West's comments: We can all say he "should" have a polite, calm, mature response to the situation. And yes many of us have been DQ'd at shows for this or that. But really - when its THE Derby and $ million and so on, what would we do?
                  I for one, though I believe as a distant observer, thought the call was the right one in the end, if MS were my horse, I'd probably rant and rave for a while before I got over it. Also think that even if he is not allowed to appeal, it would have been a good thing for stewards to at least meet with him and explain.

                  Re the Preakness, if MS were my horse, hard race, busy spring for him, I'd skip it and give him a break. Think he's a very nice, and tough horse ( I thought he would lose race due to distractions when he veered out); no sense in pounding him into the ground again in two weeks.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                    I would still be thinking, that after the replay, Gaflione let War of Will go before the rest of the field did and into a hole that wasn't even there. He rode up on MS's ass and then when MS shifted; War of Wills poor decision caused a disaster combined with MS spook. Did MS cut over? yes he did. But if you watch the replay, War of Will made the same move just prior to MS coming off the rail out of the massive lake of water on the rail.
                    MS was not steered off the rail by his jockey. It was an accident and non intentional and you can see in photo and video; Saez immediately taking hold and trying to steer the colt back.

                    I think part of the problem with the DQ is that they are treating MS and Saez as if it was intentional. If MS didn't win; or didn't have his head in front when it happened, the inquiry would've never happened. It's because he won and the 2nd place jockey knew he could lose nothing by protesting; only gain a win if the decision was made in his favor. I think that's why it sits bad with many. The horse affected never protested. He recovered fine at the head of the stretch and made a run for glory but simple didn't have what it took. He was not Afleet Alex-athletic in the top of the stretch. This was not a decision made on behalf of the "safety of the sport." If that was the case, half the field should be investigated and be DQ'd at the start and in the top of the stretch for cutting off other horses and bumping each other.

                    I think we need to look at the big picture here, not just the incident that occurred on the final turn. And I think that is what West is insinuating needs to be addressed. The Kentucky Derby is a massive safety concern and it has been pure luck in the last decade that nothing catastrophic has happened; especially with all of the mud on race day in recent years.

                    The entire race is a bumper car fest because of the field size. The moments from the break to the first turn will induce anxiety attacks. We saw what a large field in the Oaks can do when the horses break and immediately start cutting into the rail... horses get cut off, clip heals and go down or they get broadsided by the horses next to them coming in. The backstretch is a 20 horse stampede with more bumping and shifting with horses trying to gain position and 15+ horses taking mud to the eyes. The far turn has become an "everyone for themselves" game as you can see in War of Wills move to try and find a hole that wasn't there. Gaflione was willing to risk it to make room. And also with Calvin Borrel and Mine that Bird who basically ran against the rail to sneak through and win. All incredibly dangerous but jaw dropping moves in an attempt to win the biggest race on the biggest stage.

                    Combine the above with 150,000 non-horse screaming idiots have these horses borderline neurotic from the get-go, lots of noise, massive puddles, deep slop, pouring rain, and horses who are only 3 years old trying to keep it all together. I am not sure what race officials expect to happen when all of that is thrown at these horses in a 20 horse field

                    Time to have a qualifying race 5 weeks prior to the race. 2 heats. Top 14 or 15 get in to the biggest race. No Auxillary Gate.
                    ^^THIS! I saw the same thing you saw - WoW nosed into a space that truly wasn't there. Depending on the vantage point, you clearly see him run up MS's arse before the veer happened, then his head is beside his right flank. Not sure why that wasn't factored into the decision from the stewards, but I understand why the appeal was filed after having watched the slo-mo from two different angles.

                    I also agree that 20 is too many. How can one apply rules written for 14 to a field of 20? I do think the sport needs to be safe, but the field is just too large and reducing it would eliminate some of the mess and risk.

                    Comment


                    • I would like to see War of Will win the Preakness and the Belmont, and then, 4 or so years from now, his first son is nominated for the Derby. And the son's name -- Class Act.
                      Rack on!

                      Comment


                      • The first Kentucky Derby had a field of 15. After that, smaller fields (fewer than 10 runners) were the norm for 40 years. In Azra's and Agile's years there were only 3. Then in 1915 there were 16, and the winner, Regret, was the first filly to win. There were 17 in 1920, the year Sam Riddle kept Man o' War out of the race as he thought the first of May was too early for a 3-year-old to race. So -- no Triple Crown that year -- but there wouldn't have been anyway, because there was no name "Triple Crown." But what a year for racing it was!

                        There were 21 in 1923. and 3 other fields numbering in the 20s during the '20s. Burgoo King defeated 19, right in the middle of the Great Depression, 2 years after Gallant Fox was the 2nd horse to win the Derby, the Preakness, and the Belmont. In Gallant Fox's year, 1930, the Preakness was run before the Derby, and "The term "Triple Crown" was not commonly used at the time but was employed by The New York Times to describe the colt's achievements."

                        In 1935, Gallant Fox's son Omaha beat 17 to win the Derby and went on to win the Triple Crown.
                        1937 -- War Admiral won out of a field of 20 and went on to win the Triple Crown.

                        So to say that the 2019 field was too big really isn't accurate.And they weren't even using a starting gate back in those days.
                        Rack on!

                        Comment


                        • This poem by Rudyard Kipling has kept coming to my mind over the last few days as I think of the appeal and then sue 'em and then sue 'em in a higher court than that process that is beginning:

                          http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_if.htm

                          Among other great lines in it:

                          "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
                          And treat those two impostors just the same...

                          And lose and start again at your beginnings,
                          And never breathe a word about your loss..."

                          The Wests seem, prior to this, like classy people. I hope that with some time for thought, they will cool off a little. I can't imagine their disappointment, but dragging racing through the courts isn't, IMHO, how to handle that disappointment, especially when they themselves agreed to race under the rules of Kentucky, including the rule that the decision of the stewards shall be final and not subject to appeal.

                          I, too, would like to see War of Will win a classic, but again, part of me wants him not to, so his stud fee won't rise so much. I'd love to breed to some of that agility.

                          And I await eagerly the return of a healthy Omaha Beach.
                          Now available in Kindle as well as print: C-Sharp Minor: My Mother's Seventeen-Year Journey through Dementia. 10% of my proceeds will be donated to the Alzheimer's Association.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                            Look at the chart. Long Range Toddy was 2nd the entire trip - call after call - and got checked so hard at the 5/16th between the War of Will and Country House that he immediately dropped to 10th and never regained his momentum. That is what solidified the correctness of the call in my mind - we kept saying, "Max got DQ'd, but where did they put him?" and where they put him was behind the horse he bothered the most. We don't think about him because he dropped back so fast he dropped out of the video. We are all looking at War of Will, when Long Range Toddy was the horse who got compromised the worst. So behind Long Range Toddy was placed Max.

                            The stewards place the interfering horse beneath the horse that finished in the worst place, which was Long Range Toddy.

                            Let's all raise a glass (it's Cinco de Mayo) to Barb Borden who kept a level head and did the right thing.
                            Look at LRT's charts and that is his running style and whether he would have carried on for a share of the purse is anyone's guess, but my velocity calculations showed that his Derby finish was only slightly worse than his Arkansas Derby effort. I think LRT would have been compromised by the distance, bumping or no bumping I know the stewards aren't handicappers per se and shouldn't let that figure into their decisions, but I'm just saying what is the point of claiming foul if it doesn't really help you other than saying "if I can't win then I'm going to make sure the other guy doesn't." I don't respect that and I tend to subscribe to Gaffalione's attitude. Just a side note, when was the last time we had a KY Derby winner who was still eligible for non-winners allowance conditions?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by atl_hunter View Post
                              Not sure why that wasn't factored into the decision from the stewards, but I understand why the appeal was filed after having watched the slo-mo from two different angles.
                              You do realize the stewards had 5 (repeat 5) camera angles to watch the incident with, correct? You do realize they spent just shy of 22 minutes reviewing and re-reviewing those 5 camera angles prior to making their unanimous decision, correct?
                              When you start to observe, you become more effective... your movements soften, you see more, you are more available to becoming a team member. Be an Observer first, a Handler second.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by dressagetraks View Post
                                This poem by Rudyard Kipling has kept coming to my mind over the last few days as I think of the appeal and then sue 'em and then sue 'em in a higher court than that process that is beginning:

                                http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_if.htm

                                Among other great lines in it:

                                "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
                                And treat those two impostors just the same...

                                And lose and start again at your beginnings,
                                And never breathe a word about your loss..."

                                The Wests seem, prior to this, like classy people. I hope that with some time for thought, they will cool off a little. I can't imagine their disappointment, but dragging racing through the courts isn't, IMHO, how to handle that disappointment, especially when they themselves agreed to race under the rules of Kentucky, including the rule that the decision of the stewards shall be final and not subject to appeal.

                                I, too, would like to see War of Will win a classic, but again, part of me wants him not to, so his stud fee won't rise so much. I'd love to breed to some of that agility.

                                And I await eagerly the return of a healthy Omaha Beach.
                                We had to memorize "If" in school every year from 6th grade through at least 9th or 10th. I still know it pretty much by heart -- 50 years later!

                                I'd like to see Code of Honor run again.
                                Rack on!

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post

                                  You do realize the stewards had 5 (repeat 5) camera angles to watch the incident with, correct? You do realize they spent just shy of 22 minutes reviewing and re-reviewing those 5 camera angles prior to making their unanimous decision, correct?
                                  I wonder why there was no aerial view of this race. I remember in some previous years there was an aerial view. Hmm ... was Goodyear busy with its blimp elsewhere this year?
                                  Rack on!

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Rackonteur View Post

                                    I wonder why there was no aerial view of this race. I remember in some previous years there was an aerial view. Hmm ... was Goodyear busy with its blimp elsewhere this year?
                                    Don't know but it might have been the crappy weather... don't know how low the ceiling was with the clouds so just might not have been practical. Even if it was there, don't know if that view would have been available to the stewards (since the aerial camera's view was primarily by/for TV).
                                    When you start to observe, you become more effective... your movements soften, you see more, you are more available to becoming a team member. Be an Observer first, a Handler second.

                                    Comment


                                    • The whole situation is starting to feel like Coburn complaining about fresh horses being allowed in the Belmont to spoil TV tries. Lots of hot air to try to disguise pain. While I can't blame West for that, the fact that he's dragging it out on an international level when US racing in general is still smarting from the Santa Anita debacle is irking me more than a little.

                                      The race is done. It's official. The best way to avenge the loss is to come at Country House in every race he's entered in and beat the pants off him. Or not. Let it be horse racing.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post

                                        I'm not really sure Country House's connections are "putting his health first". A race horse with a cough isn't going to be able to train or race at the level that these races would be (ie, coming up, the Preakness next). If County House can't train, not gonna put him in a race just to let him struggle and look bad.

                                        As many have said, what's with "this TC"? There is a chance every year for 1 horse to win the TC. Most years, it doesn't happen. Don't need a "mess" for no TC. We went 37, yes 37 years without a Triple Crown winner. Seems like you've already awarded the TC to a horse that didn't even run in the Derby (Omaha Beach). Omaha Beach would have to try to prove himself just like every other Derby winner to then win the Preakness followed by the Belmont. It's just not that easy.
                                        I think my comment on “this TC” has been taken abit out of context. When I say this TC I simply mean the chance for one and the 5 weeks that encompasses the Derby, Preakness, and Belmont. That’s all. I know the long drought between Afformed and Pharoah and certainly don’t expect one every year (or awarded one to Omaha Beach??!!) I may not have been clear in my writing. I was simply stating that this TC SEASON has been an interesting one with one thing after another.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Vivace View Post
                                          The whole situation is starting to feel like Coburn complaining about fresh horses being allowed in the Belmont to spoil TV tries. Lots of hot air to try to disguise pain. While I can't blame West for that, the fact that he's dragging it out on an international level when US racing in general is still smarting from the Santa Anita debacle is irking me more than a little.

                                          The race is done. It's official. The best way to avenge the loss is to come at Country House in every race he's entered in and beat the pants off him. Or not. Let it be horse racing.
                                          Good idea. I would like to see them together too -- but, knowing racing, it would not be a match race between those two but perhaps Code of Honor or Omaha Beach or Long Range Toddy or -- hopefully! -- Tacitus would be up in the front and Country House and Maximum Security would be nowhere.
                                          Rack on!

                                          Comment

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