Stallion Spotlight

Zucchero Gold - Wandres, Frederic - 838-BC18_REU2723-foto_reumann

Real Estate Spotlight

Copy of asbury aerial
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

The Triple Crown Races 2019

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Sparrowette View Post

    “We don’t like mean ol’ Churchill Downs! Mean ol' Stewards!! We’re gonna’ take our horsie and go HOME!”



    Texarkana, you are right. It’s not the old days anymore.

    Earlier someone posted a link to an article:

    https://www.drf.com/news/watchmaker-...derby-dq?type=

    An excerpt (bold mine):

    “The crux of the matter is what you consider to be an actionable foul, and the number of definitions of that roughly equals the number of regular participants in this game, which is a whole lot. But the general rule of thumb, and one I strongly subscribe to, is if a horse does something to a competitor that costs that competitor a better placing, then it is a foul.

    I think most people would agree with this. The problem is, the Kentucky Derby has, over the years, developed some sort of immunity to this reasonable approach, and a lot of nasty cowboy stuff has been overlooked. And that’s not right.

    The Kentucky Derby should be officiated exactly like the many thousands of other races that are run every year. And that means if a horse does something in the Kentucky Derby that clearly costs another a better placing, then that horse should pay the price, whether he finishes first, or fifth, or whatever.”

    BB has been in the high-end race game for a long time, and has more Derbys under his belt than most. He is quoted in another article, that:

    “It’s always a roughly run race,” Baffert told Layden. “Twenty-horse field. I have been wiped out numerous times, but that is the Derby. I can see by the book why they did it. But sometimes you’ve got to take your ass-kickings with dignity.”

    Bob Baffert is an old-timer. A “roughly run race” is what he is accustomed to for the Derby. That old-timer attitude needs to end, and Baffert needs to catch up with the rest of the world. When safety is concerned, that race must not have any sort of “unspoken understanding” or “immunity” that allows unsafe, or “rough” racing to go on. If anything, the Derby should be even more stringently enforced than other races simply because of the size of the race day audience. The Stewards did the exact right thing. The Derby is special, but not THAT special.

    Racing is so much more than gambling. It’s history, culture, beauty and spectacle all rolled up together. People enjoy seeing and experiencing that, and betting while they enjoy the show. When there is a foul, and the one who committed the foul gets away with it, it tarnishes the show. Think of the big, bloody blemish on the show if War of Will had not danced so well (GAWD, I LOVE that horse). The way that group was running together, my guess would have been at least one dead horse and probably a dead jockey too.

    You think the outcry about SA was bad.
    It is also pretty rich coming from him because he is the most catered to trainer in the country. He practically writes the Santa Anita condition book, gets stalls others don't and --some say--get's incredible deference from the powers that be.

    Gary West is also a pretty important client of his and he knows how to play the politics of the sport outside the shedrow as well as anyone.

    Comment


    • "The owner of Maximum Security, the first horse ever disqualified from the Kentucky Derby for interference after crossing the finish line first, told Fox News on Monday evening that he would "file a lawsuit in the appropriate jurisdiction" after the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission (KHRC) denied his appearl of the Churchill Downs stewards' decision."

      https://www.foxnews.com/sports/maxim...-appeal-denied

      Comment


      • This may be an unpopular opinion but I think West is getting dangerously close to shooting himself in the foot in regard to his horse's legacy. The stewards made the correct call on Saturday. I can't imagine his disappointment, or comprehend the amount of money lost both in campaigning the horse or purse winnings. But what happened happened, it was handled fairly, and I think the correct response publicly for him now is to basically force a smile, shrug his shoulders, and say "that's horses." He's starting to venture into stomping his feet and taking his toys home territory, and that's not good sportsmanship.

        I think if his horse came out of the Derby okay and is still good for it, he should at least still run him in the Preakness. DQ'd or not Maximum Security is still a nice horse and it would help his legacy to win the Preakness and if he comes out of that one a winner/okay, try for the Belmont. He may not be an official Triple Crown winner but I feel like West is making a mistake for the horse's stud career by not at least trying to see if he can be an unofficial one. I understand it's only a couple of weeks away and trying for the horse to do, and there are other races he could run him in that would just as impressive for the horse's resume to win, but had Maximum Security remained the winner they'd be taking him to the Preakness anyway. The world's eyes are on his horse now. I think if Maximum Security is up for it, you send him to the Preakness and try again.
        *Wendy* 4.17.73 - 12.20.05
        *Missy* 2.2.88/89 - 9.3.18

        Gone but never forgotten.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          Originally posted by shiningwizard255 View Post
          I can't imagine his disappointment, or comprehend the amount of money lost both in campaigning the horse or purse winnings. But what happened happened, it was handled fairly, and I think the correct response publicly for him now is to basically force a smile, shrug his shoulders, and say "that's horses." He's starting to venture into stomping his feet and taking his toys home territory, and that's not good sportsmanship.
          I am still 50/50 with the decision, but I agree with the last part above. Others may disagree, but my feelings are "Act grown-up and move on".
          Last edited by Maythehorsebewithme; May. 7, 2019, 06:32 AM. Reason: The bolding in the quote is mine, not the poster's.

          Comment


          • It's like the California Chrome owner who said, "There will never be another Triple Crown winner."
            "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post
              I'll ask again for all that are still thinking Maximum Security should not have been set down.

              What would you be saying today if the exact same incident too place except War Of Will went down instead of staying on his feed? What would you be saying today if one or two horses ended up being euthanized after falling over War of Will after he fell?

              Would you still be on Maximum Security's side that he was not at fault and the fall was all on War of Will?
              I would still be thinking, that after the replay, Gaflione let War of Will go before the rest of the field did and into a hole that wasn't even there. He rode up on MS's ass and then when MS shifted; War of Wills poor decision caused a disaster combined with MS spook. Did MS cut over? yes he did. But if you watch the replay, War of Will made the same move just prior to MS coming off the rail out of the massive lake of water on the rail.
              MS was not steered off the rail by his jockey. It was an accident and non intentional and you can see in photo and video; Saez immediately taking hold and trying to steer the colt back.

              I think part of the problem with the DQ is that they are treating MS and Saez as if it was intentional. If MS didn't win; or didn't have his head in front when it happened, the inquiry would've never happened. It's because he won and the 2nd place jockey knew he could lose nothing by protesting; only gain a win if the decision was made in his favor. I think that's why it sits bad with many. The horse affected never protested. He recovered fine at the head of the stretch and made a run for glory but simple didn't have what it took. He was not Afleet Alex-athletic in the top of the stretch. This was not a decision made on behalf of the "safety of the sport." If that was the case, half the field should be investigated and be DQ'd at the start and in the top of the stretch for cutting off other horses and bumping each other.

              I think we need to look at the big picture here, not just the incident that occurred on the final turn. And I think that is what West is insinuating needs to be addressed. The Kentucky Derby is a massive safety concern and it has been pure luck in the last decade that nothing catastrophic has happened; especially with all of the mud on race day in recent years.

              The entire race is a bumper car fest because of the field size. The moments from the break to the first turn will induce anxiety attacks. We saw what a large field in the Oaks can do when the horses break and immediately start cutting into the rail... horses get cut off, clip heals and go down or they get broadsided by the horses next to them coming in. The backstretch is a 20 horse stampede with more bumping and shifting with horses trying to gain position and 15+ horses taking mud to the eyes. The far turn has become an "everyone for themselves" game as you can see in War of Wills move to try and find a hole that wasn't there. Gaflione was willing to risk it to make room. And also with Calvin Borrel and Mine that Bird who basically ran against the rail to sneak through and win. All incredibly dangerous but jaw dropping moves in an attempt to win the biggest race on the biggest stage.

              Combine the above with 150,000 non-horse screaming idiots have these horses borderline neurotic from the get-go, lots of noise, massive puddles, deep slop, pouring rain, and horses who are only 3 years old trying to keep it all together. I am not sure what race officials expect to happen when all of that is thrown at these horses in a 20 horse field

              Time to have a qualifying race 5 weeks prior to the race. 2 heats. Top 14 or 15 get in to the biggest race. No Auxillary Gate.

              Comment


              • And on the other end of the sportsmanship/horsemanship spectrum: https://montrealgazette.com/pmn/spor...7-464c72a360b3

                Also want to add this: to those saying MS shouldn't have been DQed because the spook and resulting foul was "unintentional". Sorry. That's not how horse sports work. Any of them.

                If my hunter spooks at the photographer and runs out at the single oxer, it's still counted as a refusal. I'm not winning that class. I'm not winning it even if horsey does jump the jump while spooking either, even if he jumped the other 7 jumps brilliantly and is ranked at the top of the zone.

                If my horse shies at the judges table and puts a single foot outside the dressage ring, guess what? DQed.

                If my event horse slithers sideways across a skinny on cross country and fails to pass through the flags properly? Penalty points. Probably not going to win unless my dressage score was unreal.

                If a jumper fails to pass through the timers or starts before the bell? DQed. DQed. DQed.

                All of the above are my fault as the trainer/rider. Or a horse, no matter how talented, being a horse. We've ALL lost a class of some sort due to a horse having a horse moment.

                Doesn't matter what game you play. Egregious errors take you out of the running. Egregious errors representing a significant threat to the safety of other competitors MUST take you out of the running.

                Intention has zero to do with it. None.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                  I would still be thinking, that after the replay, Gaflione let War of Will go before the rest of the field did and into a hole that wasn't even there. He rode up on MS's ass and then when MS shifted; War of Wills poor decision caused a disaster combined with MS spook. Did MS cut over? yes he did. But if you watch the replay, War of Will made the same move just prior to MS coming off the rail out of the massive lake of water on the rail.
                  MS was not steered off the rail by his jockey. It was an accident and non intentional and you can see in photo and video; Saez immediately taking hold and trying to steer the colt back.

                  I think part of the problem with the DQ is that they are treating MS and Saez as if it was intentional. If MS didn't win; or didn't have his head in front when it happened, the inquiry would've never happened. It's because he won and the 2nd place jockey knew he could lose nothing by protesting; only gain a win if the decision was made in his favor. I think that's why it sits bad with many. The horse affected never protested. He recovered fine at the head of the stretch and made a run for glory but simple didn't have what it took. He was not Afleet Alex-athletic in the top of the stretch. This was not a decision made on behalf of the "safety of the sport." If that was the case, half the field should be investigated and be DQ'd at the start and in the top of the stretch for cutting off other horses and bumping each other.

                  I think we need to look at the big picture here, not just the incident that occurred on the final turn. And I think that is what West is insinuating needs to be addressed. The Kentucky Derby is a massive safety concern and it has been pure luck in the last decade that nothing catastrophic has happened; especially with all of the mud on race day in recent years.

                  The entire race is a bumper car fest because of the field size. The moments from the break to the first turn will induce anxiety attacks. We saw what a large field in the Oaks can do when the horses break and immediately start cutting into the rail... horses get cut off, clip heals and go down or they get broadsided by the horses next to them coming in. The backstretch is a 20 horse stampede with more bumping and shifting with horses trying to gain position and 15+ horses taking mud to the eyes. The far turn has become an "everyone for themselves" game as you can see in War of Wills move to try and find a hole that wasn't there. Gaflione was willing to risk it to make room. And also with Calvin Borrel and Mine that Bird who basically ran against the rail to sneak through and win. All incredibly dangerous but jaw dropping moves in an attempt to win the biggest race on the biggest stage.

                  Combine the above with 150,000 non-horse screaming idiots have these horses borderline neurotic from the get-go, lots of noise, massive puddles, deep slop, pouring rain, and horses who are only 3 years old trying to keep it all together. I am not sure what race officials expect to happen when all of that is thrown at these horses in a 20 horse field

                  Time to have a qualifying race 5 weeks prior to the race. 2 heats. Top 14 or 15 get in to the biggest race. No Auxillary Gate.
                  Maximum Security would have been set down whether he finished first, or second, or anywhere above the horses he impacted. I haven't seen anyone in knowledgeable racing circles say that the incident was intentional; who is "they" that are treating it as intentional? It doesn't matter that the spook/drift was accidental; it happened and it affected the placing of other horses.

                  And Pratt was NOT the only jockey to protest; Jon Court did as well, and there are some who say he did so before Flavian. Flavian just got the NBC air time because he finished 2nd and had the most to gain (making for the most TV drama). More of the racing industry agrees with the stewards, because they truly upheld the rules.

                  I do not agree that War of Will caused the incident. Yes it seemed like Tyler Gaffalione was aiming to go somewhere, but he did not cause the clipped heels. It's quite common for a Jockey to aim for a small hole, the hole closes, and he has to take back... That's part of race riding and the jockeys are prepared for that. But he couldn't have known that Maximum Security would veer off sharply to the middle of the track.

                  Perhaps 20 horses is too many, but the Wests had two entered... Complaining about field size after your front runner played bumper cars doesn't have much weight. Maximum Securitys incident had little to do with the fact that 18 horses were in the race; he would have slammed 3 other horses in a tightly bunched 14 horse field, too.

                  As far as 3 year olds, 150k people, and a sloppy wet track... It does not regularly cause undue trouble. This is the first time in history the stewards have DQed a winner (not for drugs). Justify jumped the tractor tracks last year at the Preakness. And remained straight while doing so, causing no interference. Sometimes horses do horse things, but by and large 3year olds handle the chaos of the Derby remarkably well.
                  A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.
                  ? Albert Einstein

                  ~AJ~

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DarkBayUnicorn View Post
                    And on the other end of the sportsmanship/horsemanship spectrum: https://montrealgazette.com/pmn/spor...7-464c72a360b3

                    Also want to add this: to those saying MS shouldn't have been DQed because the spook and resulting foul was "unintentional". Sorry. That's not how horse sports work. Any of them.

                    If my hunter spooks at the photographer and runs out at the single oxer, it's still counted as a refusal. I'm not winning that class. I'm not winning it even if horsey does jump the jump while spooking either, even if he jumped the other 7 jumps brilliantly and is ranked at the top of the zone.

                    If my horse shies at the judges table and puts a single foot outside the dressage ring, guess what? DQed.

                    If my event horse slithers sideways across a skinny on cross country and fails to pass through the flags properly? Penalty points. Probably not going to win unless my dressage score was unreal.

                    If a jumper fails to pass through the timers or starts before the bell? DQed. DQed. DQed.

                    All of the above are my fault as the trainer/rider. Or a horse, no matter how talented, being a horse. We've ALL lost a class of some sort due to a horse having a horse moment.

                    Doesn't matter what game you play. Egregious errors take you out of the running. Egregious errors representing a significant threat to the safety of other competitors MUST take you out of the running.

                    Intention has zero to do with it. None.
                    Love this post. By the way, apropos of nothing, but the taped interview where Casse said very similar things made my pretty pony heart go pitter patter. What a lovely lovely horse.

                    https://www.xbtv.com/video/xbtv-am/m...entucky-derby/

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
                      The moments from the break to the first turn will induce anxiety attacks. We saw what a large field in the Oaks can do when the horses break and immediately start cutting into the rail... horses get cut off, clip heals and go down or they get broadsided by the horses next to them coming in.
                      The Oaks field size wasn't near the size of the Derby. If you re-watch the start of that race, Jaywalk did veer in but it looks to me like her jock was also trying to get her straightened out. He wasn't racing for the rail.

                      For many races, the start is a bit of bumper cars even if the field is only 5-6 horses. Coming out of the gate, there will be bumping even if every horse doesn't break straight and many don't, especially the maiden or inexperienced starters. Stewards seem to also be a bit lenient in the bumps during a start until there is something egregious like what happened to Positive Spirit going down.

                      I'm also on the side of a horse doesn't need to intentionally drift or not hold a lane to cause a foul. A jock may close a lane if they are clear of the horses behind. If a horse shies from the whip or sees something or hears the crowd noise and veers/drifts, the jock is still on the hook for holding his lane and not crossing in front of other horses that he is not clear of. Intent has nothing to do with the foul. It happened or it didn't... why or why not isn't part of the call. Yes, jocks may get interviewed by the stewards for their view of what happened but I'm pretty sure any 'but I did't mean to' will hold no water when talking to the stewards.
                      Maybe the reason I love animals so much is because the only time they have broken my heart is when they've crossed that rainbow bridge

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Pronzini View Post

                        Love this post. By the way, apropos of nothing, but the taped interview where Casse said very similar things made my pretty pony heart go pitter patter. What a lovely lovely horse.

                        https://www.xbtv.com/video/xbtv-am/m...entucky-derby/
                        Thank you!

                        Mark has always struck me as a class act. And yes, WoW is one stunning hunka hunka burnin' love!

                        Comment


                        • Maximum Security"s jokey was hanging on the right rein from the start of the race. No way anything else could happen.
                          ... _. ._ .._. .._

                          Comment


                          • Aaaannnnndd now County House has a cough....and will not run in the Preakness

                            https://www.paulickreport.com/news/t...-due-to-cough/
                            Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day, saying "I will try again tomorrow" -Mary Ann Radmacher

                            Wearing a helmet saved my eyesight

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by OhMissLibrarian View Post
                              Aaaannnnndd now County House has a cough....and will not run in the Preakness

                              https://www.paulickreport.com/news/t...-due-to-cough/


                              Well. That is horses. That is horse racing. Hope Country House recovers soon and well.
                              A canter is a cure for every evil. ~Benjamin Disraeli

                              Comment


                              • Good to put the horses health first. That’s the most important thing.

                                my goodness though...I think this TC has just been one mess after another ever since the Wednesday Omaha Beach scratched. Sure glad we got to see the Triple Crown in 2015 and last year.

                                Comment


                                • Triple Crown winners are the exception and not the rule. Very much an exception. I wonder if some of the new to racing fans in this thread are aware of the great gaps of time between Triple Crown winners-- the gap from Citation to Secretariat, the gap from Affirmed to American Pharaoh. That there were 2 winners in 3 years is unusual-- very-- and it may well be decades again before there is another Triple Crown winner. Which does not make this year a bad year. What is happening is just horse racing. There have been far sadder events in prior years, think of Eight Belles and Barbaro.

                                  Everyone lived to walk away from a potential deadly pile up in the Derby stretch. And in light of that, everything else pales. Really. It does.
                                  A canter is a cure for every evil. ~Benjamin Disraeli

                                  Comment


                                  • Get well soon, Country House.

                                    I do wonder about future plans for Game Winner. If the Wests are pouting with Maximum Security regarding the other TC races, I assume they are with Game Winner also. But really, I would love to see Game Winner get to run a few times where he didn't have to race clear out in the parking lot. That horse has had consistently bad trip luck this year. I still think he could win some nice ones in the future.
                                    Now available in Kindle as well as print: C-Sharp Minor: My Mother's Seventeen-Year Journey through Dementia. 10% of my proceeds will be donated to the Alzheimer's Association.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      Very sorry about Country House, and hope he gets well soon. However, we are now spared the possibility of a Triple Crown with an *.
                                      Remember 1968? Dancer's Image DQ'd from the Derby, Forward Pass wins the Derby and then the Preakness, and goes into the Belmont the favorite. Stage Door Johnny wins, Forward Pass second. No Triple Crown, * or not.

                                      Comment


                                      • Isn't it Ironic, that Country House is the son of Lookin' at Lucky, who was crushed at the gate, with Garrett Gomez in the irons in the Derby for whatever year it was? IIRC, Baffert was very disappointed in GG's ride and took him down as stable jock. They KNEW there would be a scrum, but he had the inside post and I think he was not a tearaway bolt from the gate. I always hated that. What with the giant field he never made up the lost place in the field, But I think he finished second and was charging hard at the finish. (my memory is spotty. Some things I remember clearly, some I only have a vague memory of.)
                                        Another killer of threads

                                        Comment


                                        • Now I've heard it all. https://www.cbssports.com/general/ne...ue-to-illness/
                                          Rack on!

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X