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The Triple Crown Races 2019

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  • Country House's sire, Looking at Lucky, won the Preakness. It would be great to see the top finishers back in action at the Preakness.
    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post
      Country House's sire, Looking at Lucky, won the Preakness. It would be great to see the top finishers back in action at the Preakness.
      Yes, but I wonder how many will actually make it. In the telecast both MS and CH looked beat after the race, MS perhaps more so. (Those were the only two on camera for any significant time.)

      A mile and a quarter in that quagmire had to be draining. They both have great trainers who I am sure will put the horses' condition first.

      Comment


      • Casse is already on the record saying War of Will was "perfect" the next day. I'm sure Country House will go unless something physical pops up. I see no reason for a horse like Max to skip the Preakness and aim for the Belmont. Tacitus is skipping the Preakness and aiming for the Belmont, which has his name written all over it.
        "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

        Comment


        • I had to go watch, here is the video of Afleet Alex in the Preakness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkB67uAKFUE

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post
            Casse is already on the record saying War of Will was "perfect" the next day. I'm sure Country House will go unless something physical pops up. I see no reason for a horse like Max to skip the Preakness and aim for the Belmont. Tacitus is skipping the Preakness and aiming for the Belmont, which has his name written all over it.
            Gary West announced this morning on the Today show that Maximum Security isn't going to the Preakness--seemingly because he's pissed (the owner, not the horse.)
            www.laurienberenson.com

            Comment


            • First of all I am absolutely gutted for Maximum Security's connections. I had money on MS, I knew he was something special. And I can't imagine going from the highest of highs to having to walk back to the barn empty handed. I was so thrilled for his trainer and his owners to have finally experienced the greatest victory in the sport. And to do it with a homebred!

              I watched the race and I saw the incident live on TV and the subsequent thousands of replays.

              First of all, Luis Saez did nothing wrong. And Tyler Gaflione has said that himself (jockey of War of Will). If you watched the replay around the far turn, War of Will was running rank under a strong hold behind Maximum Security. Long Range Toddy was sitting next to Maximum Security's right flank where he had been for much of the backstretch. War of Will made the exact same move as Maximum Security and moved over a lane when there was no lane for him to even try to pass MS.

              War of Will was making this move into a hole that wasn't even there, even if MS hadn't moved over; there was no lane for him to take and he was on a path to hit Long Range Toddy and MS. At that point, War of Will ran into the hind end of Maximum Security who had moved over in the same synchronization as War of Will who then ran into the side of Long Range Toddy who then bumped BodeExpress. Country House was at BodeExpress's flank and was never touched in the incident. But if you look at the head on still-photos; Country House was essentially leaning on him around the final turn. At this point; Code of Honor is still sitting on the inside, 1 length behind this

              Did Code of Honor get bumped by MS when he made his rail move? Yes he did. But his jock should've expected that coming in on the rail like that. Look at the Derby hat Mine that Bird won. He essentially got put into the rail along the top of the stretch because no one expected him to sneak in like that. Its a risky move. group, unaffected. Code of Honor was bumped when MS came back to the rail several strides later.

              Did Maximum Security "Impede" War of Will. For me, that is a hard question to answer, but yes. Did he do it maliciously or with intent, absolutely not. If War of Will had stayed where he was, he would've been unaffected. He was making a run at nonexistent space. If you ask me, the problem started when War of Will ran up on MS and made his own hole at the top of the stretch.

              The track was an absolute mess. The people could barely do the walkover on the track it was so soupy and sticky and disgusting. Even the NBC reporters were having a hard time walking over on that track; sealed or not. There were massive puddles all over the track, mainly along the rail where the tractor tires once were driving. You can see MS shy away from one of those deep puddles in the turn which is when he swapped leads and moved right. (Same move War of Will made behind him). If you look at any of the photos and videos; Luis Saez immediately grabbed his left rein and tried to straighten him out. There was nothing malicious about what happened, just a green-bean horse out on a disgusting track, with 150,000 people screaming and a 20 horse stampede.

              Country House ran a great race. His winner circle photo makes him look like Big Red standing out there. He's a beautiful horse.
              I know this is not the rule but if the front runner is DQ'd, I honestly believe there shall be no-named winner in the race. Until the end of time, Country House will never be the winner for me. If they want to DQ Maximum Security for the green-horse move on the turn, fine, I can live with that. But it just doesn't sit well with me that Country House is suddenly named the winner when he didn't cross the line first. And to advertise him as a Kentucky Derby winner or his sire for siring a KY derby winner, just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. He wasn't the best horse on Saturday; regardless. Was he good, yes. Did he run a great race, yes. But he wasn't the best. But rules are rules I suppose.


              But the entire incident makes Flavian Prat look like the worlds biggest crybaby. He knew what happened regardless of not being affected at all, and he knew what he would gained if he protested and won. War of Wills jockey didn't gain anything so they let things be.

              Comment


              • West is appealing and no Belmont for MS.
                http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...s-well-appeal/

                Comment


                • Pigs are flying... I agree with Mike Watchmaker

                  https://www.drf.com/news/watchmaker-...derby-dq?type=

                  Comment


                  • West is a crybaby. ^^^Good article.
                    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                      Did Maximum Security "Impede" War of Will. For me, that is a hard question to answer, but yes. Did he do it maliciously or with intent, absolutely not.
                      Oh, I don't think anyone's saying that Saez did that deliberately; he was just as surprised as everybody else when MS jinked out.
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      Today I will be happier than a bird with a french fry.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by SLW View Post
                        West is appealing and no Belmont for MS.
                        http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...s-well-appeal/
                        "he feels Churchill Downs is `greedy’ to allow 20 horses in the Kentucky Derby, which he said put horses and jockeys lives at risk."

                        ...yet he was OK enough with it to put his own horse in ?
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        Today I will be happier than a bird with a french fry.

                        Comment


                        • Malicious or not doesn't matter; it was interference. Rules are rules. I imagine that to enter a race, you have to sign a thing agreeing that this shall be conducted under the rules of jurisdiction whatever.

                          People should try that "didn't mean to" argument with a traffic cop sometime and see how far it gets them. "I didn't run that stop sign intentionally, sir. I just had a lot on my mind then. It wasn't like I was trying to run it."
                          Now available in Kindle as well as print: C-Sharp Minor: My Mother's Seventeen-Year Journey through Dementia. 10% of my proceeds will be donated to the Alzheimer's Association.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Pronzini View Post
                            Pigs are flying... I agree with Mike Watchmaker

                            https://www.drf.com/news/watchmaker-...derby-dq?type=

                            From the article cited above:
                            "What does matter is, Maximum Security and jockey Luis Saez committed a legitimate foul – on War of Will, at the very least – and they had to pay the piper for it. And what also matters is, what would universally be considered a foul in every other horse race in the United States is now also considered a foul in the Kentucky Derby. The Derby no longer has an unspoken exemption. And that is a very good thing."

                            www.laurienberenson.com

                            Comment


                            • A lot of people think 20 horses are too many for that track, and Saturday is a perfect example of why. Perfect conditions till one hour before the race and the heavens opened. And of COURSE, greed is why! That many more entries, = bigger purse, and it is all about the Benjamins. But if his (West's horse,) was #16-20, he would be screaming as loudly as anyone to open it back up to 20.
                              Another killer of threads

                              Comment


                              • I believe Pratt lodged the objection not because he was a crybaby (he wasn't) or because he was interfered with (he wasn't and admitted that). He lodged the objection because he felt the incident with Maximum Security should be reviewed (it should have been). It *should* have been a steward's inquiry without waiting for an objection. The stewards could have lit the inquiry when the horses crossed the wire, well before a trainer or jock could have lodged the objection (they didn't).

                                I'd also agree that it seems as though the Derby maybe has developed a bit of 'immunity' over the years with respect to borderline incidents. This perhaps reset the clock so that rules are applied as uniformly as humanly possible to all races... whether a $5k claimer or the Kentucky Derby.

                                Rules such as this both protect the betting public as well as, and at this point in horse racing time, keeping the horses and jocks as safe as possible.

                                I can just hear the sh*t storm if War Of Will had gone down and maybe one or two horses had to be euthanized as a result of him falling and the rest of the field right behind him falling over War Of Will.
                                When you start to observe, you become more effective... your movements soften, you see more, you are more available to becoming a team member. Be an Observer first, a Handler second.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Larksmom View Post
                                  bigger purse, and it is all about the Benjamins.
                                  Is it really purse money "greed"?

                                  Or is it the prestige of winning the Kentucky Derby and subsequent stallion agreement and stud fees?
                                  When you start to observe, you become more effective... your movements soften, you see more, you are more available to becoming a team member. Be an Observer first, a Handler second.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    C***! I don't see how an appeal will 1) generate a different outcome; 2) help the image of horse racing. I think it will just prolong what has already been a miserable situation.

                                    If Mr. West and/or his trainer do not feel the horse will be ready for the Preakness, that is their decision. However, I hope the withdrawal is not in answer to what happened at Churchill Downs. Pimlico had nothing to do with that.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Larksmom View Post
                                      A lot of people think 20 horses are too many for that track, and Saturday is a perfect example of why. Perfect conditions till one hour before the race and the heavens opened. And of COURSE, greed is why! That many more entries, = bigger purse, and it is all about the Benjamins.
                                      It's about the gambling. Bigger fields = more money for the house. Has nothing to do with the purse money.
                                      "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                                      Comment


                                      • I sure like the look of War of Will. I hope we see him in action again. I had a look at his pedigree, his dam's sire is Sadler's Wells. Probably why I like the look of him.
                                        A canter is a cure for every evil. ~Benjamin Disraeli

                                        Comment


                                        • I perhaps worded that wrongly. I do mean the gambling public. That is why there are about 1 and 1\2 hours between the race b4 the Derby and the Derby. NBC would probably(?, maybe not,) enjoy moving it back some so they didn't have to cover all the silliness surrounding this whole thing. Although it does bring in the eyeballs.
                                          Greed? Want to win? Bragging rights. Sure that is a part of it. Greed might not be the right word, but Maximum effort is put into the whole thing. But how many actual Derby winners ever turn out to be great sires? Besides Seattle Slew?
                                          Another killer of threads

                                          Comment

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