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Update to Forum Rules: Criminal Allegations

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Keeneland September Sale

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  • #41
    Was Hip 688 dead ugly or something? Honor Code half to Ria Antonia sold for $3,000? Yes, three thousand.

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by Vivace View Post
      Was Hip 688 dead ugly or something? Honor Code half to Ria Antonia sold for $3,000? Yes, three thousand.
      Wow. I really do want to know the story behind some of these horses!

      Comment


      • #43
        Gumtree thanks so much for sharing the pinhook successes and failures. I habe raised pinhooks for my boss off and on for the last dozen years. We've got home runs with a few barely broke even on most and lost our butts on some. It's nice to see that's the norm.

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by Lamb Chop View Post

          Wow. I really do want to know the story behind some of these horses!
          Screwed, ocd, paralyzed, etc.
          "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post
            How can you track any of these youngster's race record since many, at this point aren't named yet? I think it would be fun to pick a few that I like their breeding (which is worth what you'd pay for my opinion ) and see how they do next year... ie, add to my virtual stable.
            Once they've been through the action you should be able to look them up on Equibase doing year of birth and dam. Then you can add to your virtual stable and I'm pretty sure when I added yearlings last year, once they got a name that was just automatically added on my virtual stable.

            Comment


            • #46
              pologirl2, I'll check that out - thanks I'll have to pull out a list of the high price sold youngsters and see how they do if they do make it to the track.

              I just caught hip 757 on TVG; a Tapit colt with a very white face... loved his markings

              Did learn a bit of drivel (which i am sure gumtree knows ). Horses are placed in the catalog alphabetically by mare name. They pull a letter out of a hat and start there which is why Monday's horses started with mare's name starting with H (no, I didn't actually look at this ).
              If you see your glass as half empty, pour it into a smaller glass and stop b*tching

              Comment


              • #47
                I downloaded a spreadsheet of Book 1 to noodle and set up a few in my Equibase stable using pologirl2's suggestion.

                Sure would like to know the backstory of Hip 443. A Will Take Charge-Stage Magic colt that RNA'd at $1.750M

                Maybe high expectations as Stage Magic is also the dam of Justify ...

                5 hammered at same or higher price. Wonder what this colt's ultimate sales price is/will be.
                If you see your glass as half empty, pour it into a smaller glass and stop b*tching

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post
                  I downloaded a spreadsheet of Book 1 to noodle and set up a few in my Equibase stable using pologirl2's suggestion.

                  Sure would like to know the backstory of Hip 443. A Will Take Charge-Stage Magic colt that RNA'd at $1.750M

                  Maybe high expectations as Stage Magic is also the dam of Justify ...

                  5 hammered at same or higher price. Wonder what this colt's ultimate sales price is/will be.
                  IKR - like what is the difference between a 1.75 and 2 million dollar horse?
                  "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                    IKR - like what is the difference between a 1.75 and 2 million dollar horse?
                    Sitting a continent away, I have no idea what is going on with any of these RNAs but an RNA is just that--it is the reserve set by the seller that could not be attained. There is no guarantee that there was any live money on an RNA or if there was live money that it was anywhere near the reserve. When there is a reserve, the auctioneer is supposed to get the ball rolling within the reserve and hopefully bidders take over and take the horse up beyond the reserve. Sometimes that just doesn't happen and sometimes the auctioneer is all alone on a horse.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post
                      I downloaded a spreadsheet of Book 1 to noodle and set up a few in my Equibase stable using pologirl2's suggestion.

                      Sure would like to know the backstory of Hip 443. A Will Take Charge-Stage Magic colt that RNA'd at $1.750M

                      Maybe high expectations as Stage Magic is also the dam of Justify ...

                      5 hammered at same or higher price. Wonder what this colt's ultimate sales price is/will be.
                      The reserve on the Stage Magic colt was 1.79 million.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Pronzini View Post

                        There is no guarantee that there was any live money on an RNA or if there was live money that it was anywhere near the reserve.
                        What you see on the sales report next to RNA is the hammer price. So yes, you can see if there were bids. If that does not meet the reserve, the horse is listed as RNA rather than Sold.
                        The RNA is not disclosed until afterwards.So in the Stage Magic colt case, the last bid was 1.75 million dollars. If Mara is right, the reserve was 1.79 million dollars. And he's probably sold by now.
                        "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          I read somewhere that the sellers of the half to Justify accidentally or not accidentally slipped the week before saying they had no intentions of selling the colt. The only thing they want is a partner on the colt, likely with some bankroll to take on the racing part of it. Essentially it was a marketing ploy/publicity stunt. So they essentially brought him home for a difference of $44,000. I wish them the best but how many of these yearlings ever earn back their pay price on the track. Very little. Even the 100,000 ones; many won't even make that on the track even if they spend 6 years plugging away in allowance and claimers to get there, have to figure in the maintenance $$$ over that amount of years.

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                          • #53
                            That's a for sure but hey, their colt to do as they wish with.

                            Knowing what snaffle1987 said, might add this boy to my stable to see if he ever makes it to the track.

                            As I watch these yearling sales I think the breeding side is such a cr*p shoot. (Well, the whole thing really is, I know.)

                            Back in late 2015/early 2016 you're trying to decide who best to breed your mare to. If this sale is the target, you're trying to guess who, in two years, will be the hot sire du jour. You breed your mare, hope she foals health, hope the baby grows up a looker with killer conformation and no issues that a vet would have issues with and then hope the purchasers like what they see...

                            I can easily see the thrill of making that breeding choice, watching the offspring mature and go through the sales rings, then performing on the track and retiring after a successful career on the track (thinking of LaurieB and Paid Up Subscriber ). I know these aren't the norm but to actually hit it "big" has got to be a thrill
                            If you see your glass as half empty, pour it into a smaller glass and stop b*tching

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
                              I read somewhere that the sellers of the half to Justify accidentally or not accidentally slipped the week before saying they had no intentions of selling the colt. The only thing they want is a partner on the colt, likely with some bankroll to take on the racing part of it. Essentially it was a marketing ploy/publicity stunt. So they essentially brought him home for a difference of $44,000. I wish them the best but how many of these yearlings ever earn back their pay price on the track. Very little. Even the 100,000 ones; many won't even make that on the track even if they spend 6 years plugging away in allowance and claimers to get there, have to figure in the maintenance $$$ over that amount of years.
                              The buyers of these horses have kabillions of dollars and buy up a bunch, and parts of a bunch more. So they may spend $50 million a year buying X horses, with the knowledge that some of them will make lots of $$$, some will break even, and some will be losers. They just need the bunch as a whole to earn $50 million plus costs. And profits may not be realized for a year or two. But seeing how a good colt can earn millions as a stallion, they really roll the dice on stallion prospects. They are not looking at each purchase as an individual, but more like part of a portfolio.
                              "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #55
                                Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
                                I read somewhere that the sellers of the half to Justify accidentally or not accidentally slipped the week before saying they had no intentions of selling the colt. The only thing they want is a partner on the colt, likely with some bankroll to take on the racing part of it. Essentially it was a marketing ploy/publicity stunt. So they essentially brought him home for a difference of $44,000. I wish them the best but how many of these yearlings ever earn back their pay price on the track. Very little. Even the 100,000 ones; many won't even make that on the track even if they spend 6 years plugging away in allowance and claimers to get there, have to figure in the maintenance $$$ over that amount of years.
                                A publicity stunt seems unlikely. For one thing, that particular yearling was already "famous". For another, rather than spending the $88,500 it cost to send him through the sales ring (1k entry fee plus 5% commission on the RNA price to Keeneland) all those owners would have needed to do to get a partner is make a few phone calls.
                                www.laurienberenson.com

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #56
                                  Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post
                                  What you see on the sales report next to RNA is the hammer price. So yes, you can see if there were bids. If that does not meet the reserve, the horse is listed as RNA rather than Sold.
                                  The RNA is not disclosed until afterwards.So in the Stage Magic colt case, the last bid was 1.75 million dollars. If Mara is right, the reserve was 1.79 million dollars. And he's probably sold by now.
                                  The RNA price listed in the sales results doesn't indicate whether or not there were real bids (unless the reserve was "live money only" which most are not). With an "all the way" reserve--which most sellers use--a horse with no bids at all will be "bid" to one tick below the reserve price by the auctioneer.

                                  www.laurienberenson.com

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    If a horse RNAs during the sale but sells in the barn afterwards... when is commission still paid to the auction company (Keeneland?) and when is the sale entered in Equibase as an auction sale vs not showing up in Equibase at all?
                                    If you see your glass as half empty, pour it into a smaller glass and stop b*tching

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                                      The buyers of these horses have kabillions of dollars and buy up a bunch, and parts of a bunch more. So they may spend $50 million a year buying X horses, with the knowledge that some of them will make lots of $$$, some will break even, and some will be losers. They just need the bunch as a whole to earn $50 million plus costs. And profits may not be realized for a year or two. But seeing how a good colt can earn millions as a stallion, they really roll the dice on stallion prospects. They are not looking at each purchase as an individual, but more like part of a portfolio.
                                      Yes, but it takes quite a bit longer than a year or two to realize any profit from those high dollar yearlings. The fillies with the super pedigrees, successful or not on the track, will be bred and you can do the math on that process.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #59
                                        Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post
                                        If a horse RNAs during the sale but sells in the barn afterwards... when is commission still paid to the auction company (Keeneland?) and when is the sale entered in Equibase as an auction sale vs not showing up in Equibase at all?
                                        If a horse sells in the barn after going through the ring, Keeneland handles the transaction just as it would have done in the auction pavilion (except that the buyer and seller meet in the office instead.) Keeneland deducts their commission before mailing out the check to the seller (which happens about six weeks after the sale.)

                                        Fasig Tipton reports private sales in their daily sales results, but Keeneland does not. They publish a list on their website about a month after the sale and if the buyer agrees to make the transaction public, it appears on that list. I don't believe that Keeneland reports private sales to equibase.

                                        www.laurienberenson.com

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          #60
                                          Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                                          The buyers of these horses have kabillions of dollars and buy up a bunch, and parts of a bunch more. So they may spend $50 million a year buying X horses, with the knowledge that some of them will make lots of $$$, some will break even, and some will be losers. They just need the bunch as a whole to earn $50 million plus costs. And profits may not be realized for a year or two. But seeing how a good colt can earn millions as a stallion, they really roll the dice on stallion prospects. They are not looking at each purchase as an individual, but more like part of a portfolio.
                                          Fwiw, I can't think of a single buyer or syndicate--even at the very top of the sport--that is spending 50 million a year buying horses. Even the people who have that much money aren't taking those kinds of risks.

                                          www.laurienberenson.com

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