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Keeneland September Sale

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  • #21
    Originally posted by gumtree View Post

    My pleasure. Always thought it would be fun to do a seminar, "lecture hall, classroom setting". As each horse walks into the ring. Talk about, dissect each pedigree page. Each page tells a different story, as does the breeder and consignor. Talk about auctioneer process point out the subtle nuances, tell tails, etc.

    Fails to amaze me how people give top dollar for yearlings out mares with big pedigrees, race records that are 15-20 and haven't produced much and or the best foal/s were bred 10+++ years ago. I would just never feel that lucky. Sure there are the odd mares that produce a top horse at 15-20. But statics show it is a long shot.

    All the horses usually look great in the ring, on video esp, even if you are sitting in the ring. The ring handler pretty always keep them moving. The sales company spend a lot of money on lighting engineers. Just like when making a movie "lighting" is and can be everything.

    With select sales. Generally "all things are equal". The horse was a good individuals when it was entered months before. Or looked to be going in the "right direction". The selection team thought the same. There is no vetting done at that time. Though most breeders will do some surveys on better bred short yearlings. To see if anything needs to be addressed and or know what they are holding. So watching a select sale without seeing the horses has a lot more "rhyme and reason". Horses that sell below, well below what their page suggest. Generally means some vet issues came up and or the horse went backwards since it was entered.
    A new business opportunity? I would pay for that! You could do like a bidder 101 over dinner and drinks the night before then go through the horses one by one the day of. Maybe even do some inspections the days leading up to the sale. It would be like a course walk at Rolex.
    As an aside, has anyone seen any Tonalists babies in person? Just wondering if he is passing on that roach back.
    Last edited by Laurierace; Sep. 11, 2018, 12:43 PM.
    McDowell Racing Stables

    Home Away From Home

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    • #22
      My favorite, hip #138, was RNA at 475K. She is walking here;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMka...6rt5B&index=22

      Comment


      • #23
        skydy, that is a lovely, lovely filly.
        The plural of anecdote is not data.

        Comment


        • #24
          Question regarding:

          "The colt by Malibu Moon sold for $15,000. The buyer opened at $15,000 and it was hammered down a split second later. As I explained on comments I made with the auction process. The auctioneers have notes on each horse going in the ring of the selected sessions. Note on this colts page probably said, "sell to the first sucker, rather bidder" The consignor is a good friend of mine he's a total pro. He's sold a few of the yearlings out of the mare for the breeder. They've all sold for peanuts. The breeder is a trooper he has been throwing good money after bad at this mare for years. He bred the mare also."

          The answer is probably obvious but I'm not getting it. Apologies. Why would a consignor or auctioneer want the horse in the ring to sell quick? Thanks.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by McGurk View Post
            skydy, that is a lovely, lovely filly.
            It seems her owners agree with us. I wonder what they had as her reserve?

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            • #26
              Originally posted by beaujolais View Post
              Question regarding:

              "The colt by Malibu Moon sold for $15,000. The buyer opened at $15,000 and it was hammered down a split second later. As I explained on comments I made with the auction process. The auctioneers have notes on each horse going in the ring of the selected sessions. Note on this colts page probably said, "sell to the first sucker, rather bidder" The consignor is a good friend of mine he's a total pro. He's sold a few of the yearlings out of the mare for the breeder. They've all sold for peanuts. The breeder is a trooper he has been throwing good money after bad at this mare for years. He bred the mare also."

              The answer is probably obvious but I'm not getting it. Apologies. Why would a consignor or auctioneer want the horse in the ring to sell quick? Thanks.
              The consignor/seller had no interest in keeping the horse just hoped it found a new home at any price. . For what ever the reason. Consignors can tell/give some brief notes to the auctioneers to tag on the selling page. Besides the reserve. Most horses always have some sort of reserve. Esp horses selling at this sale/session. The auctioneers know a "good" pedigree when they see one. So if a well bred horses comes into the ring with little to no reserve and no other "notes" on the page. They know there must be issues with the horse. I'm guessing with this horse and they way it was hammered quickly on the first bid. As I said in my earlier comment. Good chance notes on the page said, sell to the first bidder. Esp in this session. Where the average horse is selling for a couple of hundred thousand $$.

              At the high end sales. The bids you hear in the beginning, $25,000-$35,000 ect are rarely live bids. As it moves up the scale live bids come in and are countered by the auctioneer until it get up to the reserve or close to it. If the live bids are active enough. And the reserves is set as "all the way", not live money.

              All the way means, the auctioneer will take the horse up to just under the reserve with or without live money in the ring at that point. Live Money means the auctioneers will keep the action going until the live money, real bidders stop. Regardless of how much higher the reserve is. Saves the seller from having to pay more commission to the sales company.

              The regardless of what the horse will sell for in the end. The auctioneers may open with "who will give me $15,000" With expensive horses, reserved horses, the auctioneers may or may not get an opening bid of $15,000. So they just take a bid out of the air to get things going. If someone bids $15gs on a horse with say a $100,000 reserve they auctioneers usually come right back with $25g "bid" real or not. They know there will be other bidders and or they know the reserve.

              With this horse, as I said there most likely was a note that said sell. Someone opened with $15,000. I am sure they looked around quickly and knew there was no other interest and hammered the horse.

              In high end, select sales that usually always have high averages. The sales company would rather a "cheap horse" not sell, be an RNA. A "cheap" horse, a $15,000 horse like this drags down the average. 3 most important stats for a sale is, average, clearance and gross. In that order. The first to are the most important to the sellers, and the third is the most important to the sales company. But average and clearance, (low RNA, not solds) are a very important advertisement for a sale when it comes to recruiting for the sale the following year.

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              • #27
                Gumtree: Thanks so very, very much!!

                "I am sure they looked around quickly and knew there was no other interest and hammered the horse."

                OK, that is what I was trying to figure out. I was always wondering why they run some of them through so quickly.

                Thanks again for the most awesome post. Your knowledge and writing talent - wow!

                Comment


                • #28
                  There are people who will roll the dice on a horse that has issues just to get the pedigree. I broke an ugly little colt back in the 90s that was by Seattle Slew that the owner bought at a sale for $40,000 simply because the colt was by Seattle Slew. He was sold at a 2yo in training sale to someone else who bought him simply because he was by Seattle Slew.
                  "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

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                  • #29
                    There was a Bernardini that sold for $5k in Session 2. Not sure who the buyer was and/or if they plan to race. Depending on how bad the issues are, might be a good place for a person with not a lot of money to spend, perhaps take the horse home and let him grow up a bit, start him a little later, and see if his issues kind of fix themselves....or buy yourself a nice sport horse prospect where the issues probably wouldn't affect the career much

                    Question on the Keeneland sales. Can anyone go and scope out horses and sit in the sales pavilion and watch? I don't really have any plans to currently bid and buy into something, I'll save that for later in life when I hit the lotto, but would really like to go to the sales and just watch.

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                    • #30
                      Yes anyone can go to Keeneland, you have to get registered to bid though.
                      McDowell Racing Stables

                      Home Away From Home

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                      • Original Poster

                        #31
                        Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
                        Question on the Keeneland sales. Can anyone go and scope out horses and sit in the sales pavilion and watch? I don't really have any plans to currently bid and buy into something, I'll save that for later in life when I hit the lotto, but would really like to go to the sales and just watch.
                        Yes, the barns and the sales pavilion are open to everyone.

                        www.laurienberenson.com

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by LaurieB View Post

                          Yes, the barns and the sales pavilion are open to everyone.
                          And drool-provoking, and really tempting for anyone who loves TB pedigrees or has an eye for a horse. Trouble, trouble, trouble, and I can’t wait to go again.

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                          • #33
                            Gumtree I second the desire for you to hold that seminar, sounds like it would be an amazing learning experience!

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                            • #34
                              Skydy,

                              A half million requires a few more "lovely"s and some other complimentary adjectives as well.

                              And that's assuming I know what a half million dollar long yearling looks like. :-)
                              The plural of anecdote is not data.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Lamb Chop View Post

                                And drool-provoking, and really tempting for anyone who loves TB pedigrees or has an eye for a horse. Trouble, trouble, trouble, and I can’t wait to go again.
                                yes, I would be in trouble. especially if there are any horses on the ground by Honor Code like the one Calumet just shelled out 1 million for

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Honor Code had some really nice ones.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by McGurk View Post
                                    Skydy,

                                    A half million requires a few more "lovely"s and some other complimentary adjectives as well.

                                    And that's assuming I know what a half million dollar long yearling looks like. :-)
                                    I never can tell what each one will bring. I know that my favorites often don't bring the super high dollars. I'm watching online though, so unless there is a video, I can't see them walk, see their vetting, or get a sense of their temperaments. Of course I'm not in the business and am watching for fun, because I love beautiful thoroughbreds.

                                    That Tapit half to California Chrome looked like a handful with a temper.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by LaurieB View Post

                                      Yes, the barns and the sales pavilion are open to everyone.
                                      In the early 90s when everything seemed to be clicking for me as an agent. Good clients, getting some good press more so by word of mouth. I was't one of the few of the Blood Horse's "golden boys/gals". The Thoroughbred Record/Times was always good to me as was a few of the writers for the Racing Form. This is pre-internet, before "daily news" was the norm. Print only, once a week. So if you got "good press" it really meant something. Compared to today's daily news cycle that needs "copy" everyday. Everyone will "publish" just about anybody's press release, free advertising.

                                      I had money to spend. In Lexington when word gets out you have money, your's or other people's money. Everyone is your friend.

                                      A good buddy of mine from my non horse years, my rock n roll years would visit me from time to time. Over they years I taught him about the value of the phrase "when in Rome". The first time he visited during the sales I took him around with me showed him the drill. As a rule he picked on things pretty quickly. He was into the scene, lol.

                                      When he visited in the early 90s his hair was stylishly long and still had the rock n roll look about him. He had played in a number of good bands since his teens. He was a heavy set guy, first to admit he was a fat guy. A good looking fat guy with a great fun personality. There were a number of rock stars and or behind the scene rock people into race horses. A friend of mine worked for David Gilmore (Pink Floyd), another friend worked and still does for Andrew Lloyd Webber, Watership Down Stud. Jerry Moss (Zenyatta) owns A&M records.

                                      Mark (Fat Mark to his friends) liked having a good time. Esp when other people were paying his freight. So to get him off my payroll I introduced him around the sales as a new client who is a "name" in the music business. He looked the part and he ran with it. This was pre-internet so no one could go on line and check him out. He knew enough about the racehorse game from hanging with me over the years So he wasn't a complete amateur. An excellent "poser". I was a couple of consignor's "buyback agent". Like Zayatt used when he "sold" American Pharoah. So with permission on the odd high priced "buyback" I would let Mark sign the ticket and get his name on the result sheet.

                                      I'd be working the sales barns and Mark would go off on his own. I'd see him from time to time at the top consignor's barns being treated like royalty, lol. Usually with a cocktail in hand. Most consignors in those day had a bar set up at barns. He'd get invited to lunch in one of the high end reserved tables dinning rooms. Everybody would be buying him drinks in the Keeneland bar. Get invited out to dinner. He had a helluva good time that sales week!

                                      Lost Fat Mark around 20 years ago. Hardly a day goes by I don't think about him we had a lot of great times. One of my dearest friends and the first to have died on me. People asked about him off and on years after that sale. Some still do. A few I know well enough and knew they had a good sense of humor. I told them the real story. They laughed and said he was worth the price of admission. Some others I told he went through a nasty divorce after getting caught in bed with someone other than his wife. Lost the majority of money and lost his job in the music business. The same story many people hear when someone "disappears" from the horse business, lol.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Thanks for sharing your reminiscences Gumtree. I appreciate it.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by gumtree View Post

                                          In the early 90s when everything seemed to be clicking for me as an agent. Good clients, getting some good press more so by word of mouth. I was't one of the few of the Blood Horse's "golden boys/gals". The Thoroughbred Record/Times was always good to me as was a few of the writers for the Racing Form. This is pre-internet, before "daily news" was the norm. Print only, once a week. So if you got "good press" it really meant something. Compared to today's daily news cycle that needs "copy" everyday. Everyone will "publish" just about anybody's press release, free advertising.

                                          I had money to spend. In Lexington when word gets out you have money, your's or other people's money. Everyone is your friend.

                                          A good buddy of mine from my non horse years, my rock n roll years would visit me from time to time. Over they years I taught him about the value of the phrase "when in Rome". The first time he visited during the sales I took him around with me showed him the drill. As a rule he picked on things pretty quickly. He was into the scene, lol.

                                          When he visited in the early 90s his hair was stylishly long and still had the rock n roll look about him. He had played in a number of good bands since his teens. He was a heavy set guy, first to admit he was a fat guy. A good looking fat guy with a great fun personality. There were a number of rock stars and or behind the scene rock people into race horses. A friend of mine worked for David Gilmore (Pink Floyd), another friend worked and still does for Andrew Lloyd Webber, Watership Down Stud. Jerry Moss (Zenyatta) owns A&M records.

                                          Mark (Fat Mark to his friends) liked having a good time. Esp when other people were paying his freight. So to get him off my payroll I introduced him around the sales as a new client who is a "name" in the music business. He looked the part and he ran with it. This was pre-internet so no one could go on line and check him out. He knew enough about the racehorse game from hanging with me over the years So he wasn't a complete amateur. An excellent "poser". I was a couple of consignor's "buyback agent". Like Zayatt used when he "sold" American Pharoah. So with permission on the odd high priced "buyback" I would let Mark sign the ticket and get his name on the result sheet.

                                          I'd be working the sales barns and Mark would go off on his own. I'd see him from time to time at the top consignor's barns being treated like royalty, lol. Usually with a cocktail in hand. Most consignors in those day had a bar set up at barns. He'd get invited to lunch in one of the high end reserved tables dinning rooms. Everybody would be buying him drinks in the Keeneland bar. Get invited out to dinner. He had a helluva good time that sales week!

                                          Lost Fat Mark around 20 years ago. Hardly a day goes by I don't think about him we had a lot of great times. One of my dearest friends and the first to have died on me. People asked about him off and on years after that sale. Some still do. A few I know well enough and knew they had a good sense of humor. I told them the real story. They laughed and said he was worth the price of admission. Some others I told he went through a nasty divorce after getting caught in bed with someone other than his wife. Lost the majority of money and lost his job in the music business. The same story many people hear when someone "disappears" from the horse business, lol.
                                          There's a book in here....really....
                                          When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
                                          www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
                                          http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

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