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ATTN: MD TB Race Trainers and Owners ** Back on TOPIC!!**

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  • ATTN: MD TB Race Trainers and Owners ** Back on TOPIC!!**

    OK.

    I just wanted to see a Poll on how much interest there would be in having a MARYLAND TB Rehab organization. I am seriously considering starting something up for Maryland tracks. There are so many tracks in MD and no place or help for our retirees. I love the breed and would be doing it solely for them. Before I even venture a business plan, I need to get an idea from our "home" tracks/trainers and owners of how in demand such an organization is. Personally, I think there is a high demand, I just want to see the backers. You can email me privately or post.

    I have also heard the RERUN just got approved for a MD property... Does anyone know about that?

    Allie is doing a WONDERFUL job with CANTER WV, but that is WV and it would be a lot to handle WV and MD...

    I am thinking of combining what CANTER offers race trainers/owners (web space, promotion, guaranteed good homes) with actually reschooling these OTTB's and putting them up for a "type" of adoption, just to ensure or try to ensure they go to great homes.

    This is very early in the thinking process and we all know this stuff takes great time...

    But I would like to get an idea of the demand... I am hoping there are some MD/race trainers/owners that can pitch in an opinion

    Thanks in advanced.

    Also:

    Is there anyone with similar ideas as me, Maybe we could form a group

    A Sport Horse breeder Of Color.

    [This message was edited by CallMyBluffFarms on May. 23, 2003 at 08:59 PM.]
  • Original Poster

    #2
    OK.

    I just wanted to see a Poll on how much interest there would be in having a MARYLAND TB Rehab organization. I am seriously considering starting something up for Maryland tracks. There are so many tracks in MD and no place or help for our retirees. I love the breed and would be doing it solely for them. Before I even venture a business plan, I need to get an idea from our "home" tracks/trainers and owners of how in demand such an organization is. Personally, I think there is a high demand, I just want to see the backers. You can email me privately or post.

    I have also heard the RERUN just got approved for a MD property... Does anyone know about that?

    Allie is doing a WONDERFUL job with CANTER WV, but that is WV and it would be a lot to handle WV and MD...

    I am thinking of combining what CANTER offers race trainers/owners (web space, promotion, guaranteed good homes) with actually reschooling these OTTB's and putting them up for a "type" of adoption, just to ensure or try to ensure they go to great homes.

    This is very early in the thinking process and we all know this stuff takes great time...

    But I would like to get an idea of the demand... I am hoping there are some MD/race trainers/owners that can pitch in an opinion

    Thanks in advanced.

    Also:

    Is there anyone with similar ideas as me, Maybe we could form a group

    A Sport Horse breeder Of Color.

    [This message was edited by CallMyBluffFarms on May. 23, 2003 at 08:59 PM.]

    Comment


    • #3
      You don't need a trainer to tell you that.

      MD could definetly use something along that line. I can name 3 horses off of the top of my head who could use that organization.

      *J*
      Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.
      -The Girl With Endoscope Eyes

      Comment


      • #4
        Long story short--
        We'll be moving into the MD tracks as soon as we can. For now we catch all those horses that come out of MD tracks into CT.

        Please read the other thread regarding CANTER's and why/how it is so difficult to start and run. There was good information in those posts earlier.

        I understand what you are saying was supposed to be nice, but saying what I can and can not handle really isnt of any issue here.


        __________________________
        A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
        FairWeather
        CANTER West Virginia

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm a long time lurker on this board and rarely post however, WOW!

          Goodness Fairweather, retract those claws. All I can say is REEEEEEEEEOWWWWWWWWWW!

          Why not be accepting of ANYONE who wishes to help racehorses, not just a chosen few? The more options the better it would seem and this seems like a decent idea.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Thanks everyone!

            Keep the opinions coming.

            Allie- In all sincerity it was a GOOD comment, meant that ANYONE trying to take over two fairly sized states for racing is just not reasonable or expected.


            I have gotten great private responses too!

            An Idea was brought up that I contact the founder of CANTER and RERUn, and instead of trying to rebuild my own program, to join forces with them and do the retraining/schooling for resale.

            This seems like an awesome idea...

            Any opinions? ideas?

            A Sport Horse breeder Of Color.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              The point to join with CANTER, is also to become a FOSTER home for some of CANTERS/RERUNS TB's a place where they can get off the track, be let down., and then be reschooled...

              Sorry I forgot that part!

              A Sport Horse breeder Of Color.

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't see any claws, I see a natural response from someone who was being told (specifically) that they can't "handle" what is put in front of them. While it may not have been intended as a cut down, it did kind of seem like a backhanded jab at a specific individual (even if it is now known that it was unintentional or because of poor phrasing). And Allie is correct, what one individual can or cannot handle is not an issue at all, so why mention her specifically?

                There is room for all different kinds of TB placement/rehab/rescue, WITHOUT publicly insinuating that another group can't "handle" their goals.

                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Why not be accepting of ANYONE who wishes to help racehorses, not just a chosen few? The more options the better it would seem and this seems like a decent idea.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                A trainer near me had a horse that was sent to the Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation, with the HELP of CANTER. At our track, there are even TRF posters displayed side-by side with the CANTER materials. I don't think that sends a "chosen few" vibe, but one of working together with other organizations. They seem quite proud to display their cooperative goals.


                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                Allie- In all sincerity it was a GOOD comment, meant that ANYONE trying to take over two fairly sized states for racing is just not reasonable or expected.
                <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                Isn't CANTER operating in five or six states and adding more every year? I would say none are run by a single person, but groups of people working together.

                And also in Allie's defense, it seems that there has been a lot of "Why isn't CANTER operating in XXXX?" on here lately and she is giving good advice here to refer to the other threads on the subject as they do detail a lot of the hows and whys of getting any organization of this type underway.

                Two Toofs
                (formerly - but still - NDANO)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks Two Toofs --you put things more eloquently than I (whattya expect after all of this rain and MUD! yuck!!)

                  Every organization is always looking for more and more help...Why not volunteer to help out those organizations? I'd rather not get into it here, but when starting something like this, you need to be very clear cut in where you make your money. CMB, you say you stand a stallion and retrain and sell OTTBs--thats conflict of interest. If you'd like more information on this, i'd be happy to help.
                  A year or so back you offered to volunteer with CANTER WV, but I never did hear from you or actually see you step up and actually help.
                  Why not step up and help first--where it is needed, instead of starting from scratch?

                  As I said before, we do plan on moving into the Maryland tracks, its only a matter of time. For now, I dont see a killer truck making the rounds there every day. What I do see is a lot of people who wish we were in those tracks because it is convenient for them, not because of the great need and horses being shipped to auction. We tend to go where we are needed most, which in this area is Charles Town. IN fact, It would be great If I could do the MD tracks, as I live far closer to those tracks than the one in West Va.
                  I work with a LOT of people from Maryland--mainly because this Mid-Atlantic area is so close-nit, its hard to delineate "maryland" horses from "West Virginia" horses. Many times they are both.
                  When I set up the incorporation for WV, I did so with the expressed interest in covering the Maryland Tracks as well.

                  Again, please go read the threads about why there arent more CANTERs in other states. We arent a franchise like McDonalds, we are made up of VERY hard working, all-volunteer basis who spend upwards of 30 hours a week devoted to this. I know that CANTER Michigan's director has made this her FULL TIME *UNPAID* job, and Nancy from Ohio had devoted every moment of free time to this.

                  __________________________
                  A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
                  FairWeather
                  CANTER West Virginia

                  [This message was edited by FairWeather on May. 22, 2003 at 10:16 AM.]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sorry, meant to address this:
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I have also heard the RERUN just got approved for a MD property... Does anyone know about that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    Yes, ReRun has been given the reins to take over a farm run by Herb Moelis up in North East (or nearby) Maryland. Big news (and fabulous!) for ReRun.

                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The point to join with CANTER, is also to become a FOSTER home for some of CANTERS/RERUNS TB's a place where they can get off the track, be let down., and then be reschooled...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    I'm sure either group would love for someone to foster horses. You'd just have to contact them (well, ReRun since we arent doing fosters yet)
                    Unfortunately, I dont think you can retrain them for liability reasons, but I could be wrong.

                    __________________________
                    A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
                    FairWeather
                    CANTER West Virginia

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      CallMyBluff, it's really pretty simple. If you want to make a profit then open a rehab/retraining business. If you do not want to make a profit then you should consider CANTER. But you cannot do both. Please check out the other topics Fairweather mentioned.

                      Nanc

                      www.canterohio.org
                      www.canterusa.org/ohio

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        &gt; I just wanted to see a Poll on how much
                        &gt; interest there would be in having a MARYLAND &gt; TB Rehab organization.

                        Can you be more specific in your definition of rehab?

                        &gt; I am seriously considering starting something
                        &gt; up for Maryland tracks. There are so many
                        &gt; tracks in MD and no place or help for our
                        &gt; retirees. I love the breed and would be doing
                        &gt; it solely for them. Before I even venture a
                        &gt; business plan,

                        What is your motivation? You started by saying you are doing this for the breed then mention formulating a "business plan." These things do not go together.

                        Are you talking about starting a non-profit or are you talking about starting a for profit organization where you get the TBs from the track and retrain them to sell.

                        If the latter is the case then I would rethink your motives. Running a rescue is alot of hard work and rarely operates on anything more than financial fumes.

                        &gt; Allie is doing a WONDERFUL job with CANTER
                        &gt; WV, but that is WV and it would be a lot to
                        &gt; handle WV and MD...

                        Yes she is. From personal experience many of the Maryland trainers bring their horses to CT to race. So, this is where the most horses seem to be moving off to the slaughter from. CANTER will be moving to MD and that plan is already in the works, but addressing the immediate need is where the focus is right now.

                        &gt; I am thinking of combining what CANTER offers
                        &gt; race trainers/owners (web space, promotion,
                        &gt; guaranteed good homes) with actually
                        &gt; reschooling these OTTB's and putting them up
                        &gt; for a "type" of adoption, just to ensure or
                        &gt; try to ensure they go to great homes.

                        Again, I would wonder what your motive is. A 'type' of adoption is a pretty gray area, they are either adopted out for a small fee or they are sold. Are you 'adopting' them out with a contract and willing to take them back should things not work out? There are alot of factors to consider. You must be willing to be responsible for these animals for the remainder of their lives because as an 'adoption' or 'rescue' that is part of your obligation. If you are not willing to take on this responsibility, you may want to consider helping out one of the already established organizations.

                        Beth
                        Vr, Beth
                        "Actions speak louder than words; they, at least, speak the truth."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I can't type much as i just had my elbow replaced on monday so for now i will just say that i stand behind Allie and Beth's replies 150 %.



                          "Horse sense is what a horse has that keeps him from betting on people"
                          W.C. Fields
                          1880 - 1948

                          [This message was edited by Treat Wench on May. 22, 2003 at 12:16 PM.]
                          \"Horse sense is what a horse has that keeps him from betting on people\"
                          W.C. Fields
                          1880 - 1948

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            I was basically Throwing out many different ideas. I want to do SOMETHING, and trying to sift through, what exactly.

                            No. I did not get a chance to volunteer with CANTER WV. But in all reality, THIS is what I am saying, I want to do the retraining/rehabbing/reschooling...THIS is my area and as far as I know CANTER does not do that.

                            Which is fine, which is why I came on this board to scope ideas.

                            I don't want to categorize it as a "nonprofit" because of different problems you run into with finances, but I don't want to make a fortune either.

                            My plan was to take the money that you receive from the first horse and put it right back into buying another horse off the track to retrain and reschool. So its really not a profit but its a cycle that allows me to get more horses off the track and into better homes.

                            All I was looking for was advice on how to contribute to saving OTTB's and combining my idea.

                            As for Allie: It was NEVER meant to be a derogatory comment toward you or canter WV, If I've said it once, then I have said it 1000 times, how WELL Canter WV is doing and how wonderful you are for leading the "troops" and making it what it is. I KNOW it is a group effort. But it takes a strong, diligent leader to make things work, and you do.

                            I don't understand why I am getting ripped for making what appeared to me to be a gratifying comment to you. NOONE should be expected to carry the world on their shoulders. This was my intent. NOT anything else.

                            And I don't see why me standing stallion and breeding WB's conflicts any with Retraining OTTB's.

                            And, yes I am fully responsible for taking them back, should things not work out. Which is why I am starting off small, as to not bite off more than I can chew... But any help makes a difference?

                            I think one should be welcomed when trying to put forth an effort to help an important cause.

                            As I stated... I haven't even begun to make the decision whether this is what I am going to do, and I was looking for advice. That's ALL.

                            I would like to help the TB community as, I devote my 13 years of riding to OTTB's their hearts their shenanigans and teaching me everything I know.

                            Again allie. there was not point or blame against you, I apologize if this is the way you foresought it.

                            A Sport Horse breeder Of Color.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              CMB
                              Just to comment on your post...

                              was basically Throwing out many different ideas. I want to do SOMETHING, and trying to sift through, what exactly.

                              In sifting through, you tossed out a mixed salad of ideas and suggestions, we simply answered you in the best way we could.

                              No. I did not get a chance to volunteer with CANTER WV. But in all reality, THIS is what I am saying, I want to do the retraining/rehabbing/reschooling...THIS is my area and as far as I know CANTER does not do that.

                              OK, but you didnt state that before--you stated that you wanted to hook up or start a group for maryland. There is nothing in the world stopping you from doing this--anybody can go buy a horse from the track, retrain it, and sell it, whether it be for even money or a profit. In fact, that is what is responsible for many of the transitions off the track in the first place--any transitions off the track other than the slaughter house is a good one to me.

                              I don't want to categorize it as a "nonprofit" because of different problems you run into with finances, but I don't want to make a fortune either.

                              Ok, 'categorizing as non-profit' is *slightly* the wrong thing to say. Getting a non-profit status is VERY hard work--it takes a very long time, and many many man hours, not to mention heartache, headache and much banging of head against walls. People with 501 status are very proud of that status, and work hard to keep it. What problems do you run into with finances? But you dont want to make a fortune either--there was no qualifyer for this statement . However, working as a Non-profit (in the eyes of the IRS), you cant make even a teeny tiny fortune.

                              My plan was to take the money that you receive from the first horse and put it right back into buying another horse off the track to retrain and reschool. So its really not a profit but its a cycle that allows me to get more horses off the track and into better homes. All I was looking for was advice on how to contribute to saving OTTB's and combining my idea.


                              Again, there is nothing stopping you from doing this, head up to a track with a trailer, buy a horse, retrain it, sell it and do over. I think the original problem is that your first post was so nebulous. Sometimes we get a little touchy over these types of posts because it comes off as so flippant...Like, oh...maybe i'll start a TRF branch, or maybe I'll start a CANTER in Nebraska. Its just simply not that easy. Not everyone has the time and ability to devote to starting an entire organization, but there is nothing stopping an individual from doing what they can to help the breed they love.

                              As for Allie: It was NEVER meant to be a derogatory comment toward you or canter WV, If I've said it once, then I have said it 1000 times, how WELL Canter WV is doing and how wonderful you are for leading the "troops" and making it what it is. I KNOW it is a group effort. But it takes a strong, diligent leader to make things work, and you do.


                              I understand that, however I just dont think my name should have been brought up at all, paired with the phrase "cant handle".

                              And I don't see why me standing stallion and breeding WB's conflicts any with Retraining OTTB's.
                              If you'd like i'll answer this, however I'd rather do it privately. If you'd like more clarification please email myself or any other CANTER rep.

                              And, yes I am fully responsible for taking them back, should things not work out. Which is why I am starting off small, as to not bite off more than I can chew... But any help makes a difference?

                              CMB, I think you need to organize your thoughts a little more clearly--they are all over the board here. You are asking for advice, then opinions, then starting a chapter, then emailing CANTER and ReRun, then starting off small. Its very confusing to even reply to your posts when you switch up like this and put in statements after the fact.

                              I think one should be welcomed when trying to put forth an effort to help an important cause. I would like to help the TB community as, I devote my 13 years of riding to OTTB's their hearts their shenanigans and teaching me everything I know.

                              I know your cause is noble--but again, be a little more clear-cut and less flippant about things like this. Saying that Maryland could "use" a program--on what do you base that statement? What evidence do you have to back it up? And again, what type of program do you mean?

                              You said you want to start small. Why not volunteer and see what doing this *for real* is all about? Its about devoting time to do things that arent always the fun part. Its about getting out there every saturday morning and helping horses where they need it--At the track. Its helping buyers find a perfect horse for them, to ensure them a fabulous future. Its not all about the fun stuff--Of COURSE we'd all love to play and retrain OTTB's and find them new homes, but we leave that fun stuff for people who can do it, and we do the hard grunt work.

                              Just my thoughts and opinion since you asked

                              __________________________
                              A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
                              FairWeather
                              CANTER West Virginia

                              [This message was edited by FairWeather on May. 22, 2003 at 04:51 PM.]

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                &gt; I want to do SOMETHING, and trying to sift through, what exactly.

                                That is excellent and a great motivation.

                                &gt; No. I did not get a chance to volunteer with CANTER WV. But in all reality, THIS is what I am saying, I want to do the retraining/rehabbing/reschooling...THIS is my area and as far as I know CANTER does not do that.

                                Excellent, so you have defined where you want to fit into the process. No CANTER does not do that, you are correct.

                                &gt; I don't want to categorize it as a "nonprofit" because of different problems you run into with finances, but I don't want to make a fortune either.

                                Very true, a true "nonprofit" is just that non-profit, so now that you have defined your motivations you are one step closer to making a difference. To that end, starting a rescue would not be the best avenue for you to make a difference. I am not trying to be difficult, but many people start rescues with the greatest intensions of helping out and when the work proves to be to much they can no longer maintain the rescue and close, leaving those animals in their care once again looking for a safe haven.

                                &gt; My plan was to take the money that you receive from the first horse and put it right back into buying another horse off the track to retrain and reschool. So its really not a profit but its a cycle that allows me to get more horses off the track and into better homes.

                                &gt; All I was looking for was advice on how to contribute to saving OTTB's and combining my idea.

                                Excellent plan and with that in mind it sounds like you have already figured out your niche. That avenue is already available to you as there are TB's posted on the CANTER sites waiting for non-racing homes.

                                &gt; As for Allie: It was NEVER meant to be a derogatory comment toward you or canter WV, If I've said it once, then I have said it 1000 times, how WELL Canter WV is doing and how wonderful you are for leading the "troops" and making it what it is. I KNOW it is a group effort. But it takes a strong, diligent leader to make things work, and you do.

                                I don't mean to harp, but your sentences contradict themselves here. You praise Allie for her work, then say "But it takes a strong, diligent leader to make things work, and you do." What does that mean?

                                &gt; I don't understand why I am getting ripped for making what appeared to me to be a gratifying comment to you. NOONE should be expected to carry the world on their shoulders. This was my intent. NOT anything else.

                                Understood, and I don't think anyone is "ripping" on you, but as you get older you will learn that choosing your words very carefully is a must when discussing something that people put many long hard hours into and feel so passionately about - that's all.

                                &gt; And I don't see why me standing stallion and breeding WB's conflicts any with Retraining OTTB's.

                                Well, breeding and rescue have historically been conflicting issues. On one hand you are breeding to produce more animals, but on the other, why produce more animals when there are so many going to slaughter or being put down for a lack of places to put them.

                                &gt; And, yes I am fully responsible for taking them back, should things not work out. Which is why I am starting off small, as to not bite off more than I can chew... But any help makes a difference?

                                True, but people with the best intentions of helping have historically found themselves in over their heads. I am much older than you with many more years of horse experience. I have two rescues, two OTTB, and my retired eventing horse. Could I run a rescue? NO. There is to much that goes into that I don't know and would still need many more years experience to competently run a rescue.

                                &gt; I think one should be welcomed when trying to put forth an effort to help an important cause.

                                Yes and you are welcome, but no one wants to see you get in over your head when there are well established rescues that could use a dedicated horse person like yourself.

                                Beth
                                Vr, Beth
                                "Actions speak louder than words; they, at least, speak the truth."

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                                • #17
                                  ATTN: Treat Wench

                                  Did they actually replace the elbow or did they just throw a hook on there? LOL

                                  Hope you are feeling better.
                                  Vr, Beth
                                  "Actions speak louder than words; they, at least, speak the truth."

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                                  • #18
                                    BK whole new elbow...had a riding accident last week on Brick...ouchy!
                                    Be glad they didn't give me a hook, imagine the trouble i'd get into!!! I'm bad enough with arms!!!


                                    "Horse sense is what a horse has that keeps him from betting on people"
                                    W.C. Fields
                                    1880 - 1948
                                    \"Horse sense is what a horse has that keeps him from betting on people\"
                                    W.C. Fields
                                    1880 - 1948

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                                    • #19
                                      Any plan to rehab racehorses and place them in good homes is a great idea.

                                      What I wonder about doing it at the MD tracks is that the horses are more expensive. Instead of selling them cheap as riding horses they sell them or send them to smaller tracks. From there they are sold cheaper as riding horses when they can't make money at the smaller tracks.

                                      You will be paying more money unless they are injured and can't run anymore or you get very lucky and find an owner willing to sell a sound raceable horse very cheap as a riding horse instead of sending it down the ladder, just to get it a good home.

                                      I don't know if that makes sense, and I hope I didn't offend anyone, I didn't mean too!

                                      The person I worked for bought horses from the cheaper tracks in the mid west, the got some great horses for next to nothing. They said the tracks around here the horses were to expensive to make a quick profit on, or in your case enough money to cover costs AND buy another one.

                                      People do what you are talking about everyday without calling themselves a rescue. It doesn't have to be formalized.

                                      ~*Adult Pony Rider Clique*~
                                      ~*Adult Pony Rider Clique*~
                                      www.timberrunponies.com

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                                      • #20
                                        People keep tossing around "rehab" --which, to me, is totally different than what retraining would be. Rehab is fixing injuries, ailments...N'est pas?

                                        __________________________
                                        A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
                                        FairWeather
                                        CANTER West Virginia

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