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Any truth to judges asking heavy riders to dismount - in Britain

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  • Any truth to judges asking heavy riders to dismount - in Britain

    http://www.wideopenpets.com/british-...paign=horsenet

    On the face of it this could be a good thing for horses, but what are the guidelines to asking that rider to get off. Because you think the horse is struggling or what

  • #2
    I understand the concern behind it but bluntly it is just rude. To ask someone to dismount their own horse because they think it's not ok is just rude. Heavy or not, we as riders make sure our horses are not uncomfortable with our weight or riding skills so you'd think they would understand that.

    Comment


    • #3
      Interesting, definitely a sensitive topic.
      I could see if it was glaringly obvious that the horse was struggling that it may be "easy" for a judge or steward to pull someone off a horse. There would be a huge grey area though. Perhaps warning cards with a conversation between judge/steward/rider might be a better way to go about it.

      Jumping31 the problem is that it's a welfare issue. Just because most people are considerate doesn't mean that some aren't in denial, or are just oblivious. I don't think we would ever see a weight cutoff for example, and I don't think we'll see judges pulling people off at every show. I would expect it would be the lower levels that would most often be affected. People who don't know any better, or who's weight is exaggerated by their lack of riding skills, to the point where it's obvious to others that the horse is uncomfortable, or is being thrown off balance.

      Comment


      • #4
        Horse and Hound has covered the topic a few times. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/...ismount-626324

        Comment


        • #5
          I saw this happen at an IHSA show I was in. Two very heavy riders easily 300+ lbs. They put both on the largest horses at the farm but they were visibly obviously not comfortable with their riders. They didn't have great balance and were in the w/t class. The judge asked them to stand in the middle after the walk section, had the rest of the riders trot and then excused everyone. She went and talked to the riders and explained that the farm just didn't have horses that were suitable and it was for their own safety. Honestly I know it's a tough subject and sensitive but in this case it was for the welfare of the horse.

          Comment


          • #6
            Well from the link it is under discussion but not an actual rule.

            They want guidelines, not a ban.

            One of the things about Britain is, it has a lot of ponies and cobs are also popular. There was some bit of news in the past year about trying to regulate adults and ponies at shows, maybe adults warming up kids ponies? Can't remember.

            My guess is any guidelines would be very reasonable and would be about real mismatches not banning anyone over 200 lbs from getting on a heavy hunter with bone.

            On the other hand devising rules could be so complicated that none ever get made.

            Is always a good idea not to panic too much at things in the discussion stage.

            Perhaps some of our British COTH ers can chime in?

            Comment


            • #7
              http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ager-pony.html

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                The question as to who and how it's determined that the rider is unsuitable is what interests me. Like the mother in the article said, there needs to be a quantifiable measure.

                Scribbler, I don't read any of these replies, or my post, as anyone panicking, but perhaps you yourself felt a bit breathless....

                Comment


                • #9
                  We had a thread on here about this, last year maybe? Maybe somebody can dig it up and post the link? It was a pretty long discussion, stayed civil. IIRC it was riders exceeding 25% of their Ponies weight last year.

                  Reading that Daily Mail link, the official said she was “ too big” and, honestly, looking at the provided picture, 19year old at 5,7” is pretty tall for that 13h Pony. Particularly if the rest of the class was smaller, younger riders. No idea what their specs are over there but...I can see it on a suitability basis.

                  Nobody said she was too heavy and she’s not. Don’t think it’s a Pony welfare issue, subjective opinion of suitability by an official. I suspect there’s more to the story, as there often is with that particular rag....Er....paper.

                  But nobody said the kid was too heavy, just too big and she is very, very tall on that Pony.

                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It reads as if a big part of the problem is heavy adults warming up children's ponies. They seem to be using the 20% rule.
                    Pony Club has rules in place I believe, and show management makes the rules for their own shows.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      thus 20% guideline... does that include tack also? depending on what we were doing the horse may have a 50 pound show saddle or 17 pound competition saddle on

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by clanter View Post
                        thus 20% guideline... does that include tack also? depending on what we were doing the horse may have a 50 pound show saddle or 17 pound competition saddle on
                        No 50 pound hunt saddles at a horse show and they were referring to Hunt type Ponies at a show. Not horses.
                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          yes, she does look to TALL for that horse. No one can call her fat! Sheesh. That *is* a small pony!

                          After having people not happy when judges don't ring out RK horses, you would think they would support a situation where people are taken off the horse for welfare reasons.

                          Action is great, if you ask me. Horses absolutely react to this, and it doesn't even have to be too "fat". Sometimes just to tall or big boned.

                          "Body shaming?" come on, really? this girl is super thin. I don't understand.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The problem with this rule will be, where do you draw the line?

                            If someone is 6'2", they could easily be over 200# and not be overweight. Granted, I would prefer them on a 16 hand or taller horse, but I've seen many Quarter Horses in the 15-16 hand range easily carry adults with western gear.

                            Now if it's blatantly obvious, like a 200 lb teen on a 12 hand Welsh Pony, yes. But as well all know, some disciplines are more judgmental than others, and if this is left to be a subjective ruling, where a rider can be penalized, we will be entering into the body-shaming territory. Western Pleasure and Hunters are already more of a beauty pageant and "how much money can you spend" and "who is your trainer" contest than an actual contest about being the best horse/rider competition.

                            Exhibit A: George Morris is overly judgmental when it comes to rider's weights. He has been accused of harshly body shaming more than once.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think they do count the weight of the tack but as most of these ponies are ridden with an english saddle the tack isn't adding much weight. In both of the H&H articles, the riders asked to dismount were adults on small ponies, and 4 of them were over the 25% mark.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Again, it’s in Britain and was mainly in reaction to bigger adults on Hunt type Ponies with Hunt type tack at shows often warming them up for their younger riders, something many complained about but there was nothing in place. I noticed in the link in post #4, it was 25% and was Ponies, not all riders in all classes.

                                That has little to do with the too tall rider noted in Daily Mail in which the mother was the primary source of the incident. Even there the official was quoted as saying rider was too big, NOT HEAVY. Mom might have exagerrated a bit, the 19 year old was not quoted.
                                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Gestalt View Post

                                  The question as to who and how it's determined that the rider is unsuitable is what interests me. Like the mother in the article said, there needs to be a quantifiable measure.

                                  Scribbler, I don't read any of these replies, or my post, as anyone panicking, but perhaps you yourself felt a bit breathless....
                                  Ok I overstated

                                  I just see so many social media posts where a news clip that some entity is discussing some rule, that gets interpreted as the rule already exists. Or news clips that exaggerate the scope and reach of the possible rule that might go into effect.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by findeight View Post

                                    Reading that Daily Mail link, the official said she was “ too big” and, honestly, looking at the provided picture, 19year old at 5,7” is pretty tall for that 13h Pony. Particularly if the rest of the class was smaller, younger riders. No idea what their specs are over there but...I can see it on a suitability basis.

                                    Nobody said she was too heavy and she’s not. Don’t think it’s a Pony welfare issue, subjective opinion of suitability by an official. I suspect there’s more to the story, as there often is with that particular rag....Er....paper.

                                    But nobody said the kid was too heavy, just too big and she is very, very tall on that Pony.
                                    She was not in a class. She was schooling the pony for her much younger sister who was going to ride it the next day. She was not riding against other competitors. From the side the pony looks small, from the front you can see he is pretty broad. No she is not suitable to show that pony but at less than 100 pounds I don't see a problem with her schooling the pony.


                                    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Can they also ban thin riders with loud legs and rough hands?

                                      I've seen some pretty wretched riding that had NOTHING to do with a rider's weight.

                                      Carry on.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Ahhhh... But bigger people schooling Ponies for younger riders at shows in Britain is disliked and considered bad sportsmanship by many members of the governing organizations and is one of the reasons the 25% standard was instigated. They don’t want to see what we often see over here, over there. And it’s their perogative.
                                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                        Comment

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