Rant..Cause I am curious Update on the big conversation

[mairzeadoats]

I would say don't move in with him. Usually how somebody treats their family is an indicator of how they are as a person, but appearances can be very deceptive. That is, some people get off on using their money for control and power and abuse. From out here, we really can't tell what is going on in your relationship. But the fact that you're even asking these questions says it's a bad move (pardon the pun ).

Rhetorical questions for thought:

Is he really taunting you about your having less? Or are you perceiving normal conversation as taunts because you envy his money and family?

(My mother used to get off on taunting me about making less money when I was first out of school. After all *she* didn't go to college and she made 3 times what I did initially. Of course -- she had 20 years of work experience and making contacts as a volunteer while she was a 'kept' woman...but somehow that didn't count! She especially enjoyed mocking me while I lived out of my suitcase and slept on the floor...after she and my father sold/gave away all of 'my' belongings after they sent me off to school. Some people are very, very sick and sad.)

Did you have a written contract regarding the horse "business?" Or did you go into it verbally?

(My father ruined 2 of my sister's 3 marriages and many friendships and other family relationships via 'business deals' he would tempt them with. Then he'd start using his 'investment' to jerk them around or yank the rug out from under them.)

So either he's really a good guy and you're suffering from envy, or he's in the early stages of a plan to own you. Setting you up by getting you into a 'business deal' and then pulling the rug out from under you to make you financially dependent long term.

I came very close to falling into that trap when I was just about your age. I got out of it, but not before the emotional/psychological abuse started to turn into physical abuse.

So I would say, don't take the cheese. I smell a trap.

[Invested1]

I'm not buying that this is some big master plan of the man to "own" the OP. If you recall in one of the first posts, the OP said her lease runs out at the end of the year. Sounds to me like the BF originally made the offer so that she isn't scrambling around trying to find somewhere to live.

[tosca4711]

It seems like the OP would be expected to be a live-in maid and cook as well as contribute rent. Household help is very expensive. How much should she charge him for this if it is just a business relationship? There are a lot of domestic jobs that just pay room and board.

Tosca

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aggie4Bar:
Hmm... all the benefits of having a wife plus extra money for the house payment? What's in it for you?

Sorry, but I'd kick this one to the curb. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto. He doesn't sound like much of a prize. In fact, from your description, I'd swear on a stack he's related to my ex-husband - spent everything he made and everything I made and still had the nerve to carp about how much I spent on my horse.

Get rid of this one, honey. He's not worthy of you.

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sandy M:
Y'know, when a guy makes FOUR times what she makes, it IS relevant. We're not talking about "roommates" who have roughly the same income, but people supposedly in a relationship. What kind of relationship is it when she struggles to make ends meet, and he indulges himself in a new truck??
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One that will end with him still making all his money, her destitute and paying for the horse he bought her and promised to support but has reneged on, and a bitter lesson in life experience for her.

He doesn't love you, sagebrush; you're a convenience. And when you prove to be an inconvenience, the relationship will spiral down the drain. Been there, done that, with two of this type of man. Didn't move in with either one (thank God for small favors!) but did waste nearly four years of my life with one of them. Sounds just like your guy; controlling, occasionally abusive, and so cheap and tight that he squeaked when he walked. I was living in a 1 bedroom apartment and he made six figures, and he couldn't even bring a newspaper or a dozen eggs to my place every now and then, but would ask what "we" had for breakfast. And yes, I did try to kick him to the curb for at least two years before the end of the relationship (another whole story on that, and one that has no place here). So run, dear; run like hell and sell the project horse ASAP so that your finances aren't further stressed.

[Scootie]

For Lords sake people, its not about the money or how two people decide among themselves how they are going to manage the finances in a relationship.

In a true (healthy) relationship, both parties realize that not all things of value have a $ sign attached to them. There are a lot of intangibles that are also considered into the balance, and how each couple works that out is not really anyone else's business.

One reason so many couples have so many arguments about the money situation is that it is easier to focus on something concrete rather than the fact that the relationship itself is not on solid ground. The money iteslf is a red herring so people don't have to face up to even harsher realities about themselves and their partners.

I think this guy is living according to the Golden Rule. As in, "he who has the Gold Rules." This for me would be a big red flag in itself--someone who tries to use their monetary power to control a relationship has serious problems and most likely is extremely emotionally immature.

People buy a horse for someone they care about because that person's happiness makes them happy. They give gifts such as horses and other nice things without any strings attached. People who really care about someone also make good on their promises to support whatever is important in that person's life. And in a healthy relationship it WILL be a two-way street.

People in a healthy relationship do not put their immediate family before the SO. They may lavish the family members with money, gifts or whatever, but they don't sacrifice the health and well-being of the SO in the process.

I would run 100 miles to get away from someone who uses a previous relationship as an excuse for how he treats me. This means you are so unimportant to him that he can't expend the energy needed to get to know who you are and to evaluate your relationship potential according to your own merits.

Oh, and I want to second what someone mentioned about psychological and verbal abuse escalating into physical abuse. Sorry, but that is the nature of abusive, controlling SO's. It appears that the psychological abuse is already present. Given that this would be a situation with a significant imbalance of (in this case monetary) power, you would be putting yourself in an extremely dangerous situation. It is only guaranteed to get worse.

If you need a new place to live you should make arrangements with someone you are not in any way dating or romantically involved with and make it a business deal where everyone is on relatively equal footing. There appears you have too much emotional baggage around this guy already--don't make it any worse.

I'd get rid of him. There are some really decent, caring, loving men out there. Hey, even I found one, so I know they are out there.

Whatever you decide, good luck. I'll be thinking of you.

[mademoiselle]

I don't see anything wrong with his offer. If he makes 6 figures a year, he probably works very hard. And I don't blame him to want to enjoy and play with his money.

If you were the one making that pile of money, I bet you that you would own a nice truck, a trailer, 1 or 2 horses, take lessons, buy a new saddle. And you would probably not be very happy if your SO, was expecting you to buy him a race car and all the expenses related to the race car (spares, tuning for the engine ...) instead of your horsey stuff.
You would actually think that you have been nice with him when you bought him a race car (even a cheap one that needs to be fixed).

Nowhere I read that the guy 'ASKED' you to clean his house, do the dishes and others. You said that he was not doing it. You have 3 options, tell him :
1) you want to split the work around the house
2) he can hire somebody to do it
3) Just don't pay attention and agree to live in a messy place

As far as him asking you to participate in the expenses, I don't see anything wrong. If giving him a 'rent' make you uncomfortable, tell him that you will take care of the groceries or whatever you want that equals $300/month.

When I was in France, I was making almost as much as my 'future husband'. I moved here and I had to start a new job, in a new field and I had to start at the bottom of the ladder. But, even after we got married, I have always paid my share of expenses. He currently makes 4 times what I make, and I'm still paying for my truck, the groceries, the pets, my phone, all the expenses for my business (I'm a horse trainer), and now I'm going to be the one paying for everything for our baby. I work 2 jobs, cook, take care of the house and I feel good, because if something doesn't go well between us, I can leave tomorrow knowing that I don't owe him anything.

He spent the last week with some friends racing cars. He spent a big chunk of money for this trip and that's fine with me. He works hard enough to have fun.
In 2 weeks, he is going to spend 3 days with some friends to Ski in Colorado and I will not go because I have to work and I can't afford to pay a barn sitter for a few days. But, it doesn't bother me. My husband never tells me anything when I go to a clinic, spend a few days in Paris with my friends, or buy a brand new Butet.

[aspiringangel]

WOW.

I am living with my boyfriend. Currently, I am a kept woman - I am in school and only have a part time job. We saved money together for three years to make a downpayment on the house we now own, but now he is the one paying the mortgage. My puny income is paying for groceries.

However, for those three years, I had a full time job. Yes, he made more than I did - almost twice as much - but we NEVER had an argument about money. We worked it on a percentage - so rent and bills weren't exactly cut in half, they were divided according to how much each of us made. I had my hobbies, he had his. It is still that way. When I had a job I afforded riding 3x / week. Now that I don't, I ride once a week. Yes he commented that my hobby is expensive - but he would never dream of telling me not to ride. When I am out of school, he would never dream of telling me not to buy a horse. We have an equal give and take in terms of how our free time is spent. He is willing to come to the barn, he even hays and waters on my lesson nights so we get a discount, he's willing to get up at 6 to go to shows (in which I am not riding but grooming!!!) and in turn I will go to concerts with him, I will go do stuff he likes doing, I will even encourage him to learn to play guitar!

Money isn't everything. My BF is putting up with me not making a lot of money, is using his personal company money to pay for some of my tuition, and is still supporting my riding because *this makes me happy* and when I am happy, he is happy. Being a receptionist made me *unhappy* and when I am unhappy, so is everyone in close proximity.

I can't say I feel like a whore. Really. I mean, if it was the other way around, you bet your life that I would be equally supportive of him. Heck, if he wants to go to school, although it will probably have to wait till I'm done so that we can afford the house, heck, I'd be damn happy to pay all the bills so he can do that.

sagebrush, I honestly think that if you don't have a give and take like this, then it really is not worth moving in - and probably not worth persuing the relationship further.

[nhwr]

Did I miss where the OP said this guy is abusive? Or controlling? It isn't bad to help out family members if you want to. And he isn't doing so at the OP's expense, unless you believe that she is entitled to his paycheck and assets. Well, it seems everyone brings their personal experience and reads what they want to into this. But a couple of things do seem clear;


1. It is uncertain what the level of commitment to the relationship either party has.

2. The OP is looking for some financial support to do things she is struggling with on her own.



It may be that this is a situation where both parties are trying to take advantage of each other. We don't know, we haven't heard both sides. But from what I have heard, the guy doesn't seem like a control freak or abusive.

There is a time and place for full financial support. Heck, I haven't worked since my first child was born (15 years ago) and I have a couple of horses and a nice place to live with my name on the deed. But difference is I understand the relationship I am involved in, I know and accept the motivations of my partner/husband and he does the same for me. We both have equal standing within the relationship.

My advice is this. If you love this guy, tell him you want to get married. If you don't want to marry him, make financial independence your goal and don't waver. Then you can be with someone because you want to be with them, not because they can support your lifestyle.

[sketcher]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sagebrush:
Oh! and may I add that he expects me to do all of the cleaning, cooking and laundry. I'm sorry, he doesn't expect me to do it....he just doesn't do it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Run!!!!! It doesn't sound like a great situation to move into. Why not just keep dating for a while and see if you can work out these things to the satisfaction of both? If it is a serious relationship and you hope to see some permanance, then perhaps you could get him to attend a few counseling sessions to make sure you are both on the same page. I think finances are one of the biggest causes of divorce so it would make sense to communicate about these issues before you are co-habitating.

Or you can do what (in my experience) many men would like to do - 'sleep over' 7 nights a week but don't commit to anything

[tosca4711]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sagebrush:
I cook, clean, and do laundry so that it is done but if I dare to take a day at the barn and not touch the house there are comments made about that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He does seem to expect Sagebrush to be the 'help' and pay rent. It seems to be that room and board for maid service are not too much to ask.

If the chores were split, and it was a partnership, I would think differently.

Tosca

[sagebrush]

Well, here is an update from last night..
He is not a bad guy, he just always shuts everyone out when he doesn't want to talk about something and it escalates to this!! I told him that we needed to sit down and talk about where we are in the relationship or simply would need to part ways. There is no doubt in my mind that I do love him. He is a good person and a hard worker.
First we addressed the realtionship thing. He said he is not at the point that he is willing to say I love you (I have no problem with this, I want him to mean it when he says it) He does see a possible future but is being careful due to relationships in the past (I respect him for this) He does get mad at me when I bring up the family issue. I explained to him that I love his family but cannot stand the way they do him. Giving them money as a loan(their and his words) is okay but there is a severe lack of respect and gratefullness when they never pay him back and expect him to pay for their car payments, house payments, kids Christmas...etc
He agreed. However, he doesn't want me to bring it up. I agreed to this on the terms that I not be the one he poor-mouths to when they don't pay him back and they don't have any money.

Now to the rent thing. I pointed out that he does expect me to do all of the house work wether he says it or not. He agreed somewhat. I also pointed out how much a maid would cost twice a month. We both agreed that it would be more than I would be paying in rent. I made it very clear that I don't have a problem paying this but that it seems like his life is run by work and wallett and that that is not the type of relationship I want.
In the end he said dont pay rent just keep up what I do to make the house work. I pointed out at this point this may not matter. I have witnessed a very selfish side of him in that he refuses to be any part of my horses, my friends, my school. He thinks that since he doesn't have anything in common with these people that this is okay. I pointed out that I had nothing in common with any of the members of the Jeep/RockCrawler club that he spends all of his time with but that I go out of my way to meet people and help him out because he likes it. Give and take that is what a realtionship is about. I pointed out in the future his dislike for living away from the city and not wanting to have any yardwok to do. I also explained how expensive board can be with several horses and that I eventually want a mini farm and will have one, but what we do if we were married and he wouldn't live there??? It became more clear to him last night that everything we do is only if he wants to do it. He said he would make an effort to be more a part of the horses that he knew I loved so much when this relationship began.
We'll see. I still have 2 months to decide whether to move in or not.

Oh and for those of you that say don't live with someone before you marry them I disagree. Yes I have lived with a few of my boyfriends...but this is what made it very clear that they were not my life partner.

Thanks for all of your input...Oh and by the way, it was my BF that told me to ask others opinions so that is what I did. In the midst of all this discussion we read through everyone's posts including my own. We got a little look into ourselves by looking at what people outside our circle of friends think!

[Cherry]

I didn't read any of the responses after page three because they pretty much all seemed to say the same thing--ditch the guy!

I was married to someone like this--the self absorbed type. I would have to skip lunches and pinch pennies to buy the horses grain while he was out buying a different car, or a motorcyle or a pair of leather running shoes while I went without! At first I didn't mind it but after a while it got really old.

So, I extricated myself from the situation and never looked back--the best move I ever made!!!! Sagebrush, you can do better! You're right--it's not really about the money. Your wants and needs are taking a backseat to his and I sincerely doubt that he will ever acknowledge yours!!! Ever!

Yeah, most people would have said that my ex is a "great" guy too.... Well, he was great to those that didn't have to live with him, but guess what--if he's not great to me, what do I care I how great he is? Sorry, I needed someone who knew the meaning of sharing and meeting me half way! I still don't have much but the fellow I married this time around is very attentive and guess what!? I still don't have anything--but at least I get to eat lunch now! I'm still pinching pennies but it was worth everything I gave up the first time to know that at least this guy cares about my wants and needs. He bends over backwards to support me, my horse and other creatures in our lives! It's not "I, me, mine" anymore!!!

My advice is to keep looking. If you move in with this guy you'll be paying him to exploit you and that never made sense to me.... This guy has a lot to learn--don't let him use you while he learns it!!!

[BLBGP]

Regardless of the money issues, you certainly don't sound like you like, respect, love, or even enjoy this guy very much. It sound like it's time to cut strings and move on and find someone who respects you and who you respect, too.

And he wants you to move in and, presumably, sleeps with you but he can't say I love you? Not to get all Dr. Laura on you, but there's something wrong there.

[Perfect Pony]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sagebrush:
There is no doubt in my mind that I do love him. He is a good person and a hard worker.
First we addressed the realtionship thing. He said he is not at the point that he is willing to say I love you (I have no problem with this, I want him to mean it when he says it) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have got to be kidding me? I find it really hard to believe you are in your late 20s, have lived with men in the past, and you are considering for one single moment moving in with a man who 1. admits he's not in love with you 2. cares more about his life/family/friends/rock crawlers than you (IMOP this is not a BAD thing, it's just the way it is) and 3. You still dream of a future with....

I have to say this sounds like one of the most dysfunctional relationships I have heard of in a long time. IMOP you need a dose of Dr Phil telling you to wake up and get real!

[nhwr]

Well, whatever you decide to do, sagebrush, good luck.

One word of warning, if a guy can't say he loves you after a year and half, there isn't much likelihood he is going to say it. And less likelihood he'll say "I do" or make any real commitment. This isn't and never has been about money. It is about equity in the relationship. Don't sell yourself short, girl.

[mairzeadoats]

Ok, this gives a WHOLE lot more insight into what's going on there. It sounds like this guy doesn't know how to manage his family relationships (coming from someone who really doesn't know how to manage family relationships, I can relate ).

In his case, he needs to work those relationships out because it sounds very much like he's allowing himself to be badly used by his family, and then turning around and trying to make up for it from you.

He doesn't have anything left to give you, cause the family is all taking. BUT he's allowing them to. He needs to have some backbone with his own family. Until he does, he won't have anything of himself left to give. Even if it's 'just money' he's giving them, it probably leaves him emotionally depleted.

He shuts down because he can't deal with his anger over the situation.

So I wouldn't move in with him, but I also wouldn't necessarily break up with him. Maybe some couples therapy to help him learn to have better relationships with his family, and then all around.

[NMS]

You know, if he really loved you he wouldn't think twice about helping you out whether it's financially or by any other means. I've had the shoe on the other foot (I owned the house) and I would not have even THOUGHT to charge "rent" to my then SO, now husband.

This isn't about money. It's about control, and it will not improve unless you talk about it with all the cards on the table.

Good luck
Nancy

[nhwr]

m-doats,

He has plenty of $$$ to do the things he thinks are important. I think "He is just not that into you"

[mbamissaz]

sagebrush, you've been with this guy a year and a half and he STILL isn't "ready" to say he loves you????!!! I hate to say this, but he may just be biding his time with you until he meets someone he thinks he actually "can" love.

You deserve someone who is at least on the same page as you as far as goals dreams etc. You two seem to be in completely different books......