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Boarding barn charging for something not requested?

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  • #21
    That is pretty much SOC at most reputable boarding barns (standard of care). There is almost always an upcharge in dosing. The barn owner did catch the issue, administer the dose, watch the horse etc. Having the banamine available, syringes etc ( throwing out when expired) is what good barns do and is not cheap. They may pay $60 for a bottle and only use 1 dose- God willing.

    As a BO- though I have let owners know in real-time it does not preclude me from treating the animal as per advice of a vet (which I always call to give a head's up) without having to make contact with owner.
    Come to the dark side, we have cookies

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    • #22
      I would be pissed if a BO treated my horse without attempting to call me. I would chose to get the vet out if the vet could come right away and would not have wanted the banamine given. If they couldn't get a hold of me, and so decided to treat under the advice of the vet, I would be fine. I do not want a BO just giving my horse medications without either my, or my vet's permission. The exception would be if the horse is a chronic colicky horse and the owner and I have already come up with a treatment option.
      Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

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      • #23
        This is such an interesting discussion. From my point of view, having only been the working student with trainers who mostly had absentee-owner horses in training and not an owner myself- we basically treated the horses as if they were all ours. And giving banamine at the first signs of colic is a typical first step treatment for a colic so I wouldn't think twice about a barn giving it. With one trainer, we had a big gelding who just thought about a bellyache and would colic. We'd banamine, walk, and call owner and vet.

        I can totally understand being upset about not knowing the horse even colicked until 6 hours later, but the fact that the BO/BM/ trainer saw the signs and treated accordingly? That's great. It's surprisingly hard to find observant staff sometimes.

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        • #24
          Gee whiz. If a horse is colicking the barn is expected to track down the owner before the barn can administer medicine to make the horse more comfortable and hopefully avert a catastrophic situation? This might sound nice on paper, but it isn't always realistic in real life.

          OP if you were to call a vet and tell them your horse was exhibiting signs of colic the vet would tell you to give banamine and stay in touch if the horse didn't improve.

          Assuming the welfare of the horse is of utmost importance, it sounds like the barn did the right thing. I would pay the bill AND tip the staff for going above and beyond.
          Last edited by OneTwoMany; Oct. 5, 2017, 08:55 PM.

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          • #25
            I worked at ASB farms we always gave Banamine and a big warm bucket of water with a few alfalfa cubes and a squirt of molasses. Rarely had to have the vet out for colics as they usually subsided.
            "Anyone who tries to make brownies without butter should be arrested." Ina Garten

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            • #26
              Originally posted by SuzieQNutter View Post
              If she had been down and rolling you would know. She would have been sweating. She would have bedding in her mane or neck rugs.

              You would know by the way she is standing if she is in pain or not.

              If she is standing quietly and not rolling after being given banamine then it is better to let her stand quietly in a stall than to be let out with other horses to be harassed. You know if she has pooped, if given water in a bucket, you know how much she has drunk. If she was given feed or hay you know how much she has eaten.

              The only real red flag I see here is your reaction. Having lost a horse to colic who I was with for the final 12 hours. I would do anything to have had only to pay for a bottle of banamine and still have my Vinnie Girl
              Exactly! Condolences to you Suzie!Nutter, on the loss of your mare.
              Jeanie
              RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by OneTwoMany View Post
                Gee whiz. If a horse is colicking the barn is expected to track down the owner before the barn can administer medicine to make the horse more comfortable and hopefully avert a catastrophic situation? This might sound nice on paper, but it isn't always realistic in real life.

                OP if you were to call a vet and tell them your horse was exhibiting signs of colic the vet would tell you to give banamine and stay in touch if the horse didn't improve.

                Assuming the welfare of the horse is of utmost importance, it sounds like the barn did the right thing. I would pay the bill AND tip the staff for going above and beyond.
                Yep! I agree the barn would be well rid of such an ungrateful, and possibly less than optimally caring owner.
                Jeanie
                RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

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                • #28
                  Well, I wouldn’t want anyone giving my horse anything without my consent. or at least, call my vet and gets his approval. At least, I would know it’s true.

                  If the horse has ulcers, it could present itself as colicky... Banamine is an NSAID and can exacerbate ulcers...

                  If the colic is that bad, my vet prefers that I wait for him to check it first and he will administrate it after he’s done with the exam, tubing or anything else.

                  I would pay this time... but no, I wouldn’t be happy and I don’t find it to be professional at all. More shady than anything... why were they unable to call the OP or the vet?!?

                  And it could be the start of a long list of stuff « done »... Oh we gave this to Poopsie, here’s the bill, oh we gave that to Poopsie again, here’s the bill... Here’s a new bucket and a blanket, here’s the bill... Oh and we changed his grain and supplement, here’s the bill... He needed to be lunged, here’s the bill...
                  That’s why the BO needs to talk to the HO...

                  ETA: It has nothing to do with being ungrateful.
                  It’s my horse, my money and my decision.
                  ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                  Originally posted by LauraKY
                  I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                  HORSING mobile training app

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by sdlbredfan View Post

                    Yep! I agree the barn would be well rid of such an ungrateful, and possibly less than optimally caring owner.
                    I don't think the OP is an ungrateful or less than optimally caring owner, which is pretty offensive to say anyways when all she wants is the best for her horse. I would pay because in the end it helped save your horse. The problem isn't paying the bill or of the staff behaving accordingly. The problem is she wasn't contacted immediately when things started going downhill. If my barn didn't call me immediately after my horse is starting to have a serious medical issue I would be the one seriously considering leaving because treatment is one thing but not telling the owner anything when its crucial is bad enough.

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                    • #30
                      Most boarding stables and trainers have a 'care, custody, and control' clause in contracts precisely so that a horse can have whatever is needful done, even if the owner cannot be reached. The whole point thereof is to make sure the animal gets TIMELY (as in speedy) care for whatever is going on.

                      Based upon the several people (even before I chimed in agreeing) stating they perceived the OP as ungrateful, I still believe that to be the case. As to my opinion OP may be 'less than optimally caring', that is precisely because OP would prefer that her horse might not receive timely care.

                      We all know that there can be situations in which cell phones are either unreliable, low on battery charge, or even turned off. IMO, it is highly likely that one of those factors is what prevented timely contact of owner, but regardless of reason, a truly optimally caring owner, IMO, is more concerned that a horse got some pain relief than who administered it.
                      Jeanie
                      RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

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                      • #31
                        I do not think the horse owner is ungrateful. I think she is right, from what I can garner from the posts. Her barn should have made an attempt to contact her during the emergency, even if they couldn't get her and had to make the decision on their own they at least should have tried.

                        I expect my BM to contact me first if it isn't an immediate emergency. I expect her to contact my vet first if it is immediate but I also expect her to contact me second.

                        I don't have any issue with my BM giving my horse banamine but I expect her to call me, or at least attempt to call me. Even if it is a text or goes to voicemail.

                        I had to assist a boarder in my barn when his horse was colicky and instead of handwalking and banamine and waiting a bit to see he wanted the vet out right away. Which is his right.

                        I've also had to administer aid, hold a horse for the vet, and stay at the barn two hours late because the horse owner was out Christmas shopping and didn't want to show up.

                        Banamine is a pain reliever. It does not fix a twisted intestine and I think the vet needs a heads up that we have given banamine and are walking so the vet can be prepared to head out.
                        http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Arzny View Post

                          I don't know where my posts went
                          It looks like several posts you made are gone so you must have edited them.
                          Thankfully they are quoted.

                          Originally posted by Arzny View Post

                          It simply states that I will be contacted for approval in the case of an emergency (non-scheduled) vet visit that exceeds $100. Nothing more. In hindsight, this was not enough, and it should be included that I should be contacted in any medical event my horse is having.
                          I have to agree with your thoughts here.
                          It sounds like your boarding contract needs some editing.
                          It might be worth asking them if it can be edited to include contacting you for medical issues.
                          Though I would not restrict their ability to provide emergency care if you are not accessible.

                          Originally posted by S1969 View Post
                          I'd possibly be concerned that you were not told of the incident until you got the bill.
                          It sounds like (from the quotes that show the deleted posts) that the OP knew about the incident six hours after it happened. It was just having to pay for the medications that the OP did not know about until getting the bill.


                          My thoughts are kind of a combination of what has been posted.
                          Would I pay this bill? YES! Most definitely. I would be thankful that the people at the barn noticed Dobbin was not feeling well and were able to address the issue.
                          I would be annoyed that no one contacted me at the time of the issue though. Now, there are exceptions to this, and a perfect example is above. If the barn knows you are totally overwhelmed with something else right now and Dobbin is only showing mild signs and the banamine seems to be doing the trick then I get not bothering you but telling you after it is all resolved. But that is more of an exception thing.

                          If your horse does have ulcers I would say that acting colicky might be part of that and would probably lead to a vet appointment seeing if the colic and the ulcers are related.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Arzny View Post

                            I don't know where my posts went, but yes, I do have a boarding contract. It simply states that I will be contacted for approval in the case of an emergency (non-scheduled) vet visit that exceeds $100. Nothing more. In hindsight, this was not enough, and it should be included that I should be contacted in any medical event my horse is having. Ah well, its in the past, enough people told me what I needed to know, and now I know what is appropriate going forward.
                            My contract has three levels of action:

                            If the problem is emergent meaning that death or serious injury will occur without immediate action then I call the vet first and owner second.

                            If the problem is urgent then I call the owner first and vet second. If the owner is not available and if I don't act the problem will become emergent then I'll call the vet and then tell the owner I did it.

                            If the problem is routine meaning that there is no reasonable risk of death or serious injury to the horse then I'll call the owner and await a call back before I call the vet.

                            In the first two circumstances the contract says the owner pays the vet. Even if I made a mistake the owner pays the vet. I may ultimate repay the owner and I may not. It will depend on circumstances. In the third case this issue will not arise.

                            In any case if I think I can reasonable resolve the issue I'll call the owner first. If they respond then we discuss the problem and go forward. If they don't respond then I'll do what I can reasonably, and legally, do so we don't end up in case two or three.

                            In the case at hand it sounds to me like the barn acted reasonably and prevented a case two or three situation. You the OP should be grateful for such professional care even if the communication of same was untimely.

                            Remember that the more time you spend talking about something the less time there is to do it. You reach a state of stability when you spend all your time talking about what you're not doing.

                            G.
                            Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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                            • #34
                              For some reason I can't edit the above. In the second to last paragraph you should substitute "case one or two" for "case two or three."

                              G.
                              Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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                              • #35
                                Some owners want the barn to wait until they get there to administer any kind of meds to relieve symptoms or authorize vet care. Owners choice.

                                OP should move if she wants the hands off approach and be sure the contract does not allow barn to provide any care deemed in the best interest of the horse ...and be sure to never be more then 30 minutes away or let work, school or family needs to interfere with her ability to immediatey respond to all texts and calls, possibly leave immediately.

                                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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                                • #36
                                  A previous BO gave my horse banamine IV for a mild gassy colic and hit the artery. He seized and hit his head pretty hard on the stall wall. If she had called me I would have told her to give it. The problem was she had not called the farm vet first and really didn't want him to know she gave the shot without his direction. Therefore she really didn't want me to call him to treat the results of the head injury. Thankfully I have a vet I normally use for lameness so called that practice. She knew I used the other practice and could call them instead of the farm vet. BO did offer to pay the $300 vet bill.
                                  Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

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                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                                    For some reason I can't edit the above. In the second to last paragraph you should substitute "case one or two" for "case two or three."

                                    G.
                                    Me too G. Last few days, not bringing up the edit screen. I found if you go away from the page after first posting and come back in few minutes, it works.
                                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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                                    • #38
                                      I think it also depends on the which 6 hours. If horsie is found at midnight, given banamine and seems to be improving then calling you at 6am when things were happening again seems pretty reasonable to me.
                                      It is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday.

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                                      • #39
                                        I didn't see the OP (or any of the subsequent comments) so I'm gathering things based on responses.

                                        From the sounds of it, there's a difference between "it's the right thing to do/the gracious thing to do" and "what was in my contract". There doesn't appear to be anything in the barn's contract regarding medicine re-stocking fees or the barn being given permission to administer meds before attempting to contact the owner of the animal. The given clause is too loosely phrased. It also doesn't appear that anyone actually called the OP before administering meds. If this is the case, "gracious thing to do" or not, OP doesn't have to pay a thing.

                                        That's different from "it's the right thing to do", as the barn owner could have just left the horse alone and things could have turned out very differently.

                                        I'm gathering that no one called the OP to let her know her horse was ill and needing Banamine prior to it being given, in which case that is absolutely not OK, and I'd be pissed. That's business liability 101. At this point, the horse is OK, no harm done, so I'd pay the fee because it's "the right thing to do", but I'd be having a discussion with the BO regarding the contract and how emergency cases are handled. That's the bigger issue here.

                                        Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not. Remember that what you have now was once among the many things that you only hoped for.

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                                        • #40
                                          What I do with my own horses, and what I fully expect my trainer to do, is give a dose of banamine and see if it resolves in a little bit before calling the vet. Knock wood, it always has. Same deal at the boarding barns I've been at (years ago), but the barns I was at were also training barns so quite knowledgeable. I have seen a few clueless boarding barn owners so YMMV. I wouldn't complain and just pay the bill.

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