• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

Editorial Comment in Local Paper-

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    SeaOat - actually, I never get my questions answered; your response is a case in point, and I often lament the fact that this always becomes an us versus them free for all. And since you remember my previous posts - you'll also remember that I keep bringing that fact up.

    You sidestepped everything I said in my post. When I ask questions, all I ever get back is "do your homework", or get with the program, or other non responsive, self serving rhetoric. I know I don't have all the answers. Neither do you - although evidently you think you have some corner on the truth, or have the moral high ground.

    This is a BB - for discussion. Not for platforms. Again, I NEVER start these threads. Invariably some well meaning person posts an article and comments how horrible and stupid the writer is - and others chime in and it becomes a big hen party - with a couple of people offering a different viewpoint.

    Then the name calling starts.

    What you want is a blog. By all means, start one. This is a public forum for discussing horses. That means all points of view - not just yours.

    Just for the record - you assume too much. You do not know if I am pro slaughter or not. All I've ever said is that the slaughter of animals is not INHERENTLY inhumane.

    If you truly work to end slaughter - I sincerely hope you keep your mouth shut and keep a low profile. You won't get grants or support with a mouth like that.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling

    Comment


    • #62
      [QUOTE]Originally posted by county:
      The reasoin other countries don't supply their own is because they don't have the resources to raise them. Same reason we import products.

      I apologize if this has already been pointed out and I admit I haven't finished reading this entire thread but Country can you please explain to me just which countries you think don't have "the resources" to supply their own horses for their damnned diner tables??????????
      France and Japan two of the biggest markets for our slaughtered horses most certainly do have the resources to raise their own - IF they chose to! I have to echo what so many others have already said: please get your facts straight before spewing inaccurate "facts" here.

      And I agree with SeaOat; if someone feels slaughter is an acceptable way to end their horse's life they should NOT own one in the first place. Trying to squeeze those last FEW and I emphazise the word few, dollars out of some poor horse rather than to have the human decency to give it a humane death is beyond despicible when you consider the very low profit margin for sending them to slaughter. And I also have to add; if I hear one more person use the excuse that they can't afford to pay the vet to come out and euthanize the horse so "the only choice is to send it to slaughter" I'm going to gag. How in god's name can anyone possibly use that as an excuse - they had the horse in their care, they fed it, housed it, paid the vet and the farrier but suddenly they can't afford to have the poor horse put down humanely????????? Oh please!

      Instead of raising horses for a living those people should stick with raising corn - or maybe soybeans.

      Comment


      • #63
        Japan is a very small island with very little open space for raising horses. Their HUMAN population density is astounding.

        When you aren't using any imported products whatsoever, then you might have a case for bitching about providing a commodity for those damned foreigners. But if that's not the case, then you are just picking a cause that pleases you and using it to thrash everybody with a different opinion than your own.

        The whole world is not required to worship at the altar of Equus Caballus just because a few would-be tyrants wish to do so.

        Comment


        • #64
          SeaOat if anyone needs catching up its you.

          Why would anyone think I sell foals for slaughter? I see nothing I've said that would indicate that in any way.

          And yes I'm very familar with equione slaughter as cattle. And theres very vewry few thin animals slaughtered of any species theres just no meat on them wghhich beleiuve it or not is what slaughter is all about. Its not like a HS where they kill animals just to have them dead.
          Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

          Comment


          • #65
            KateB yoiur certainly entitled to your opinion but thats all it is. No better then anyone elses. I have no idea what makes you think your better then anyone else just because you don't eat meat. Most the world does and supports slaughter and thats never going to change
            Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

            Comment


            • #66
              These are horse care products, supplements, etc. all labled "NOT FOR USE IN HORSES INTENDED FOR FOOD."

              http://www.fda.gov/OHRMS/DOCKETS/98fr/03-4741.htm

              For animals, phenylbutazone is currently approved only for oral and injectable use in dogs and horses. Use in horses is limited to use in horses not intended for food. There are currently no approved uses of phenylbutazone in food-producing animals.

              http://www.fda.gov/OHRMS/DOCKETS/98fr/05-23295.htm
              EQUIPOISE (boldenone undecylenate)

              http://www.fda.gov/cvm/4402.htm#nada
              Omeprazole (GastroGard®)

              http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/1529.htm
              Generic Name: ketoprofen
              Trade Name: Ketofenâ„¢

              http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/1488.htm
              Generic Name: ivermectin
              Trade Name: EQVALAN Liquid

              http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/1483.htm
              Generic Name: xylaxine HCl
              Trade Name: Xylazine HCl Injection

              http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/1479.htm
              Generic Name: hyaluronate sodium
              Trade Name: Synacidâ„¢

              http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/1466.htm
              Generic Name: hyaluronate sodium
              Trade Name: Hyalovet®

              http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/1463.htm
              Generic Name: pyrantel tartrate
              Trade Name: Strongid 48

              http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/1441.htm
              Generic Name: 0.2% nitrofurazone dressing (water soluble) veterinary
              Trade Name: NFZ Wound Dressing

              http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/1407.htm
              Generic Name: luprostiol
              Trade Name: Equestrolinâ„¢

              http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/1392.htm
              Generic Name: Hyaluronate Sodium
              Trade Name: Legend(TM) â„¢(Hyaluronate Sodium) Injectable Solution

              http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/1380.htm
              Generic Name: Polysulfated Glycosaminoglycan (PSGAG)
              Trade Name: Adequan® i.m.

              http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/1336.htm
              Generic Name: clenbuterol hydrochloride
              Trade Name: VENTIPULMIN® SYRUP

              http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/1322.htm
              Generic Name: Tolazoline Hydrochloride, USP, Sterile Solution
              Trade Name: Tolazineâ„¢Injection

              http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/920.htm
              Generic Name: moxidectin
              Trade Name: Questâ„¢ moxidectin 2% Equine Oral Gel

              http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/882.htm
              Generic Name: b -aminopropionitrile fumarate
              Trade Name: BAPTEN® For Injection

              http://www.bi-vetmedica.com/product_...reference.html
              BUSCOPANâ„¢

              http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...no=21#21:6.0.1 .1.9.0.1.224
              Ponazuril (Marquis)

              http://www.betterchem.com/vet/albuterol.htm
              Albuterol sulfate

              Comment


              • #67
                um-- speaking form one that does rescue horses and replace them into permenant homes foor life-- and those that i cant i keep. or get friends to keep
                i ambroke -- i go to work to pay for them - and now thats whys its so important for me to get another job-- to keep the one i have resuced and to help the ones that need to be help -

                in most resucce centers that are proffesional frun here in uk-- sen out wlefare groups to markets this being of bhs- ada cole - redwing- equnie market watch- happa- ilph-rspca-- etc


                they buy the neddys and the ones that canoot be rehomed they keep for life -- they are all registered charaties -- they live for the donations of people or fund raise - or have shops to sell there wears -- in most - part not all some relay on volenteers -- to riase dosh at events -- the welfare groups go to see people if people are reported - and equine centers some get saved but lots of red tape with civil rights and aninaml rights- one cannot work with out the other -- as uin your country you need plod to enter a premises- and to caution-- and animal welfare group to prescute creulty--

                the donation depends on what you can afford--and if you cant afford it not nessecary to donate --but can offer sponership or adoption programme where as you sponsor and animal for set amount for the ones that have been left in homes to help with there up keep -- i e -- chrismas card for a 10 quid a year the one you like you would get newsleetrs and whats he up to now knid of thing and you can go and visit the one you sponsured
                and you buy the equiment of them or can get threough them-- and the horse is registered with the charaties so if you can t keep it it goes back to them to be rehomed-- but in most cases as long as horse is rehomed they have yearly checks to seee you happy with the horse in question
                s we know some slip thorough the gap and some horses need attention quickly rather than to late-- yes horses go to markets and meat men thats fact -- over here -- i dont think the meat men have an many as over there but owuld know the percentage--

                why do people send to slaughter there many reasons --

                the main reason maybe is financial --
                for those that cannot afford vet bills to have there horse humanly destroyed or that its sick or injured --to many reasons as to why they go or wher they come from as in most some know the details and some dont --

                but i have read this twice and i think county you make a profit from those that are sent to slaughter hence why you do so well--

                you said it youyself you buy them slightly more than the meat man -- now i know for a fact that meat men dont pay a lot ofr the horse and in most its now done in weight --

                and i aslo know that for a pony 0- to 50 00 and for a horse its- 100 most they ever pay is 200.00 quid - and if a dealer - and belive me inknow

                for a pony a dealer if in good nick in order to resell they pay- 0-300 and 0- 500 for a horse
                they wont pay dear for if they can get away with it-- 1000 top wack for a horse as they might have to retrain and reschool it and if they good dealerwill work hard to get horse goin so they keep it for a while as to make a better profit and dealers can only be as honest as the person in front of them- hence way a good dealer will keep the horse for a while and get to know it a bad dealer will buy and sell straight away and make either a quick profit asap -- and sell it on the spot -- oh um which my friend is what you do -- as its ther for all to see--
                you tend to go for the ones that are oldest - and for the ones that have something slightly worng that can be sorted as you aiming for and appealing to those that have a heart and feel sorry for them hence desial for exsample --

                you are a dealer ---

                races horses here have centers to re- hab

                they have a 500 limit on horses so they can go again and save another -- and to help cost with others they have in there care and adpotion and sponsor programmes and all are vetted and quarrterly checks done --

                Comment


                • #68
                  you are a dealer maybe with the profits you got you then decided to buy and breed a few horses in order to make a better living for yourself
                  thats ok but

                  you should state the fact that you are a dealer to -- there no shame to deal in horses as a repretable dealer-- rather than say rehoming as you charge -- there and then ---


                  re homing horses centers wuldnt do that they would see the horse had the right care - there and then and they would take it home and get it fat first before putting it up for adoption .


                  you are a dealer --- period so state the fact on your web page -- you buy and you sell horses

                  but you for my part judging by what i have seen not a good one for instance you jump on poines backs with out a hat -- thats not good --

                  you say that the horse either lead well or are halter broken-- you arnt a vet so you cannot say
                  that that horse has this wrong with it --

                  animal welfare groups would and do monitor markets in uk -- an auntioneers at markets if caught are informed straight away - by these groups of people that are market watch--

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Wait a minute - I think y'alls arguments are a bit too convienent. And again - no one has answered my questions at all.

                    If it's terrible to breed horses, then where do they come from? How did you get one? Even if you bought it at an auction - you still got a horse. Someone had to breed it.

                    For goeslinkstink and others, you're making the argument that somehow, you are better than others because you go broke paying for vet bills, or you're the only person aware of the system of rescues in the country. Or that it's wrong to make a profit on horses. Uh.... that's why horses exist nowadays. Everyone profits off them - EVEN YOU.

                    Uh - and how is the fact that county prefers not to wear a helmet is any way relevant? Or that he states he believes a horse has nothing wrong with it? Honest sellers disclose known defects. If he knows of none - then the statement is correct.

                    How he conducts his business is completely irrelevant unless he is convicted of a crime against animals. I see no evidence that he is a criminal.

                    Are the people posting on this thread interested in the welfare of horses or just hearing themselves talk?

                    Seems to me, like all threads involving this subject, it's just degenerating into factions hurling insults at each other. What a very effective way to advocate.

                    So much for focusing on what's best for the horses.
                    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                    -Rudyard Kipling

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      sorry -- to both cc and j swain

                      but how do you get your horse then

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        I'm a dealer? If thats what you choose to think go ahead why in the world would I care? I buy some of my mares and raise some, I buy some studs. So what if that means in your eyes I'm a dealer and not a breeder I certainly don't care your nothing to me.

                        I also buy or get horses that are underfed, abused, neglected whatever term you want to call them. I feed them up, fix their problems best I can and sell them. Some call that resue, some call it dealing, some call it many things. Some call the selling part a " donation " when the horse leaves. You can call it whatever you want I could care less all comes down to the same thing. I choose to make a profit when I can, if others choose to lose money I certainly don't care. But its all the same system.
                        Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          I hate this discussion...just because I can argue both sides of it.

                          There are some horrid cultures where butchering puppies is the beginning to a fun night out. When butchering larger dogs, they've also found beating and skinning them while the poor dog is alive makes for tastier meat. These same lovely people prefer to fry a live fish, holding it's head out of the grease so the poor fish's mouth is moving while the happy diners eat it's body...yeah, boy...now that's good eats (and all cultures sure are equal)

                          Should we send dog meat to these people? It'd sure make money for dog shelters and it fits their cultures? In the Washington DC area, restaurants still kill cats and puppies for food (the inspectors find the heads in the trash...hey, it's their culture, so we shouldn't complain...right?

                          How about horses dying for dog food? Glue? Feeding zoo animals? Are these uses any better than killing a horse for a Belgian or Swiss (the greatest importers of horsemeat by the way).

                          We've all known horses that deserve to go to the meat man...evil, nasty etc....The ones I find repulsive are the cowardly horse owners. They have their horse for years, it's gotten old, so they jokingly pretend someone wants a blind, lame, medical disaster who needs special shoeing in their "Free Horse to Good Home" ads. You owe your horse a safe retirement or to be humanely euthanized. The same lowlife scumminess shows it's head when "kind owners" take their 12 year old dog to the pound "because our lives have changed and she'll find a new happy family".

                          Unfortunately, horses are a lot more expensive to keep around than a dog. Most of us can afford to keep one horse...if we have a horse who is unrideable at 10, you've got another 10-15 years of having an expensive pet vs. getting another horse you can ride. Do we tell people not to ride until their current horse has died? Of course not. So what to do with the crippled horse?

                          Problem is, each of those 3 damn horse slaughter houses kill 375 horses a day, each day of the year....58,736 in 2004, making $41M...so some Belgian or Jap can have a triggerburger (the same happy people who kill whales for "research", and then they can't even convince their kids to eat them). American's value horses & dogs and have a different relationship with them than those who eat them. On an emotional level, we don't want our horses killed to feed people we consider garbage for eating our animals.
                          "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            I completely agree, Trakhener. There is an island where people take stray dogs and use them for sharkbait. Live. I admit to having very violent thoughts against people like that.

                            goeslikestink - no need to apologize.

                            And I also agree about the giveaway thing. Or free leases - the lessor gets to pay for old Nelly's meds, corrective shoeing as well as feed and bedding and can't even ride the poor thing. What a deal!

                            Euthanize the poor thing, for God's sake. If your own horse becomes unridable, or you can no longer afford it - or whatever - seriously consider euthanasia. For every animal that dies in a loving home - others end up dying a horrible death - not just at the slaughterhouse. A final horse owner has 100% control of their horse's fate. The breeder doesn't; neither do auction houses. They are sellers and assume some risk that the horse they bred will not have a decent life. The onus is on the OWNER.

                            But - I must stress that this is a huge industry - and our own horses are a product of the same processes that feed the slaughterhouses. So tread carefully or we may not find the result is to our liking.

                            The reason the Bute argument doesn't sway me is that I don't give a damn about the health consequences of foreigners eating horsemeat. I don't care about foreigners at all. They smoke like fiends, too. Good.

                            I have no trouble with the demise of horse slaughter. But - its demise cannot logically be the first step. It has to be part of a comprehensive solution - otherwise there is truly no place for unwanted horses to go - and rescues cannnot absorb all unwanted equines. End slaughter without a plan for the entire country and you're not ending suffering. Which is the goal, isn't it. End the suffering - not necessarily death.

                            So what is to be done? Here's what runs through my mind:

                            Is the general population comfortable with the mass euthanasia of at least 58,736 horses per year if slaughter ends. Or will there be an outcry when videos of 6 month old foals dropping dead appear on CNN?

                            Is the general population prepared to compensate breeders, dealers, or others who euthanize the horses that do not sell? Currently, farmers are compensated for loss of livestock under federal law regarding reintroduction of wolves, or other losses that farmers incur.

                            If so, will this program be under the state, or under the federal government? If the feds require the states to administer the program, will it be another unfunded mandate?

                            (This happens with states that pass laws requiring each jurisdiction have an animal shelter - yet does not provide funding. Poorer counties, or counties whose leadership lacks the will to implement it - have a higher incidence of appalling conditions in which animals are kept).

                            If states end up having a "shelter" for unwanted horses to be euthanized - will these end up being understaffed, horribly filthy scary places with ignorant employees? How is that different than the abuses that occur now?

                            If there is some sort of program to help with the final costs associated with horse ownership (costs of burial, rendering, cremation), will it be some sort of process in which an application is made, you sit down with a counselor, meetings are held and eventually a check is cut? If so - is it a private, voluntary program? Is it state/locality managed? Do states give a tax credit for euthanasia? (Don't even try suggesting it - states HATE tax credits unless they are compensated by the feds).

                            I firmly believe that slaughter of animals is not inhumane. What I mean by that is the actual act of killing it. A bullet kills the same way - chemical euthanasia renders the carcass unsuitable for consumption (by anyone - not just humans). But we all know that the act is not what is problematic - it's all the horrors surrounding it - the kill pens, the injuries, transport. And most appalling to me is the lack of will in enforcement of existing legal protections.

                            If slaughter ends - I want assurances that infrastructure exists to fill the void left behind.

                            If the void isn't filled by humane, ethical processes that mitigate the chances of any equine suffering a horrific end- it will be filled by more inhumanty and suffering.

                            If that makes me pro-slaughter - then the person reading my posts has completely missed the point. I'm deeply concerned about the horse. Not the act of killing for human consumption.
                            Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                            Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                            -Rudyard Kipling

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Trakehner, thanks for echoing what I said on the first page of this topic.

                              So, to those who support slaughter, why not send our unwanted dogs and cats somewhere that the culture accepts this practice? Hell, old Fido can't get around too well anymore and certainly can't herd the sheep or protect the home. And Trakehner's right....what a great way for shelters to bring in revenue. The puppy mills will just be overjoyed and take on some (ahem) "respectability" like the slaughter houses. Torturing dogs, forcing them to have puppies....would become a thriving, mainstream business....and kittens, well, we all know that would become a cottage industry unto itself!

                              Well, it's no different for horses. Yes, indiscriminate breeding is one of the root causes. Yes, America's "disposable" culture is another cause. But until horses are specifically bred as/for a consumable food source, I for one, will NOT EVER support slaughter.

                              And to respond to J Swan's questions, my last 2 horses were rescues. My old TB was a late bloomer who didn't make it to a track (bloodlines that most would envy). I purchased a 2yo bag of bones and he was my best friend for 27 years. And, as I've mentioned before, my mare came off the truck. An extremely well bred Connemara cross (dam was pony hunter champion year in and year out/sire was champion imported Connemara stallion). Unfortunately, my mare grew to 14.3. A death sentence. See, I don't know about others, but I own a horse because I love that horse and it has a forever home. She will never know the horrors of slaughter because I stepped in. When the time comes (hopefully many years from now) she will be humanely euthanized and I'll be there to say "farewell, see ya later" to my precious one. It's the horse I love. Riding and winning are all fine, but unless I can afford to keep a new horse as well as my retired horse, well riding and winning are secondary to my joy and love of my mare. She's NOT disposable under any circumstances.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Why not ship cats and dogs over seas for meat? I'm hoping you actually have a clue to the answer which is theres no profit in it. There would be no horse slaughter eaither if there were no profit regardless of how many horses there are. Do you actually beleive these plants exist just to kill horses?

                                And I think its great if people choose to not sell, slaughter, or decide to keep their horse. I've yet to see anyone say they shouldn't but I sure see alot of people tell everyone else what they should do.
                                Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Sneekers - you're not responding to my questions at all. My horses are just like yours. It is not germaine. Personal stories are all well and fine - but it does not address nor solve the problem.

                                  Again - it's not a matter of being pro or anti slaughter. It's not a matter of your personal ethics. This issue is not about my horse's histories - or yours. It's about an industry. Not the slaughter industry - the HORSE industry.
                                  Slaughter is the end of a process.

                                  Focus on what the alternatives will be. Focus on the intracacies and infrastructure required to compensate for the closing of slaughterhouses. Can it be done. Should it be done. How can we pay for it. Who needs to be involved. How do we build concensus. How do we come up with a solution that will satisfy everyone.

                                  The horse you got off the truck came from SOMEWHERE. Were its siblings world class jumpers and yours was the one who didn't measure up? Should it have been euthanized when it didn't live up to expectations or should it have been sold and sold and sold until it ended up in a bad situation? Is the breeder responsible for being unable to produce cheap, world class horses consistently? Is it the trainer's fault because they ruined the horse? Is it the owner's fault for wanting a competitive horse instead of a pet, or not being wealthy enough to pay for crippled horses for 20 years?

                                  I don't care about everyone's forever home or forever horse. These are just anecdotes. My guys have a sob story too. It distracts from the discussion.

                                  Focus on the actual issues that resulted in the animal ending up at in the killpen and work out a solution that will work for the entire country. That is the challenge.
                                  Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                  Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                  -Rudyard Kipling

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    For those that are interested in finding out why people are anti-slaughter and would like questions answered please google "trf white paper". It is loaded with statistics, studies and answers to many of the questions people ask about it.

                                    Also hsus.org website has a link to horse slaughter and videos. The videos are of one of the 2 slaughterhouses in TX. It shows the transport conitions, horses being unloaded (and how they are handled), and "good" kills and "bad" kills. Probably the most abhorrent part of the videos for me was when one horse wan't completely killed and was down and struggling to right itself, and the workers were "whooping" and laughing at it.

                                    That's all I'll say on the issue as I refuse to get into another argument with the pro slaughter side.

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Holy crap, county you just lost ANY credibility you might have ever had with this paragraph:
                                      Its not like a HS where they kill animals just to have them dead.
                                      Seriously, you think Humane Societies kill animals "just to have them dead"?

                                      What an insane statement to make. How on earth can it be OK with you to send horses to slaughter but to somehow have a problem with Humane Societies HUMANELY euthanizing pets when they are over loaded, don't have enough people adopting, and have to make room for new animals coming in?

                                      (edited to fix spelling)

                                      What on earth would you have them do with all the animals?

                                      (And don't even bother trying to justify your position by talking about the "No Kill" shelters out there, while they are great and help a lot of animals, they at times have to turn animals away when they are full. Humane Societies ensure there is always a place to take animals in need.)

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Why am I for horse slaughter but not for killing off cats and dogs? Because the horses serve a useful purpose which is provide food and clothing.

                                        What useful purpose does killing off dogs and cats serve?
                                        Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Just curious but how many of you eat meat? If you do cattle, hogs, sheep, poultry all of it is slaughtered basically the same way,. You buy or eat it then your supporting the system. And saying its bad for those species but worse for horses is like saying child abuse is bad but worse if its a white kid.
                                          Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X