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Saddlebred show on USEF

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  • #21
    Originally posted by allons-y View Post
    Again, you are generalizing. And not able to read what I wrote.


    You wrote "I don't like that you came here to say the horses are crippled and abused, the riders are hacks, the judges and the stewards are incompetent or sadists."

    Absolutely none of that was in my post.
    That was in your original post. It was quite inflammatory. I get it that its not your cup of tea but still.
    "Anyone who tries to make brownies without butter should be arrested." Ina Garten
    • 3 likes

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    • Original Poster
      #22
      This thread is really bazaar. If I went to the Louvre and reported back that the Mona Lisa was much smaller than I expected, you would have my head for 'stating all the pictures were too small' and dark, and, and , and I obviously hate France, and I must be a communist

      Have any of you watched the video I am referring to? A video, not the breed, not all riders or judges or stewards or trainers, etc. Why is this so hard for you?
      • 4 likes

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      • Original Poster
        #23
        Tense, inverted, some obviously lame means just that- some of those horses were, never a good thing
        Riders sitting on loin or further back means just that - not an encoded spy message
        their poor tails." sort of crinkled up, some looked cut off at the hock, I wonder what happened there
        • 2 likes

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        • #24
          The horses weren't lame, or they would have been excused, per USEF rules. So you can take some comfort from that I'm sure.

          You don't like the way the riders ride; fair enough!

          And some people/disciplines cut tails shorter than others. In show jumpers especially we will bang the tails off maybe half way down the tendon. But you will see lots of horses with hock length tails.


          You don't like shorter tails; fair enough.

          Thank you for explaining.

          Let me apologize in advance.

          Comment

          • Original Poster
            #25
            my goodness gracious people, heres the link. Lots of nice horses, even a Fresian. but 2 are head bobbing, some are inverted, many are tense, and some look like their tails were cut off at the hock https://www.usef.org/network/coverag...SaddleSeatInv/
            • 4 likes

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            • #26
              I have started this argument before eons ago on another board.

              But here it goes again.

              Do we really have any proof that riding horses in an inverted frame is anymore harmful than horses in a classical frame?

              I don't know. Polo ponies, mongolian horses, racehorses, horses in lower Asia are all ridden (or raced) in a frame that is not the classical rounded frame. It is hard to determine how this effects them as for instance the first examples I listed are also pretty heavily worked.

              But as far as the OP, what the other posters are trying to tell you is that you may not be actually seeing lame horses. Do you know what a slow gait is supposed to look like? Or a rack? Or a ASB walk for that matter. And tense horses are in every discipline- especially those in some of the disciplines that laud a classical frame. Also you may be confusing tense with excitement.

              Saddleseat riders sit further back in order to change the center of gravity to allow lift in the front legs. They are some of the softest and lightest riders you have ever met.

              You really need to ride a ASB or at the very least see one in person before you make these statements.

              I will give you tails. And since when is tails only to the hock a problem. I rather like the look myself on a good stockhorse. If you have one with great hocks it really shows them off.
              • 7 likes

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              • #27
                more than two lame horses in that link you sent... but I frequently say that about other disciplines too.

                SaddlEseat is not my thing, but I do love a nice ASB.
                Last edited by beowulf; May. 16, 2017, 03:16 PM. Reason: spelling
                AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012
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                • #28
                  Originally posted by allons-y View Post
                  my goodness gracious people, heres the link. Lots of nice horses, even a Fresian. but 2 are head bobbing, some are inverted, many are tense, and some look like their tails were cut off at the hock https://www.usef.org/network/coverag...SaddleSeatInv/
                  That video is 58 minutes long, can you give us an idea where in that 58 minutes you are seeing lame horses?

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster
                    #29
                    Some of the tails are short, but dont look like something the owner intended. I have heard of show horses having manes or tails cut off by bad guys before competition to change who wins. I just wondered if something bad like that had happened.

                    Comment

                    • #30
                      Thank you for posting the link OP.

                      There are some questionably sound horses. But it also may be how they are ridden.

                      Isn't this competition done by draw, similar to IHSA and IEA. These horses are basically schoolies whom theses riders have not ridden.
                      • 2 likes

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                      • #31
                        That "show" that is linked is the test for 3 gaited and 5 gaited Jr. riders to show their equitation on different horses. All those horses are donated and have to be safe for Jr riders from the US, Canada, and South Africa. Horses are not top of the breed basically local barns were nice enough to let these teams use lesson horses and show horses. There is usually a couple nice ones, but since these kids have to be able to ride them with no practice ride I think they picked safety over 100% soundness on a couple of the horses.
                        https://www.usef.org/media/press-rel...national-teams

                        Kinda like IEA except for its saddle seat and the riders have to try out for teams.
                        "Anyone who tries to make brownies without butter should be arrested." Ina Garten
                        • 5 likes

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by allons-y View Post
                          Some of the tails are short, but dont look like something the owner intended. I have heard of show horses having manes or tails cut off by bad guys before competition to change who wins. I just wondered if something bad like that had happened.
                          Probably not There are very few classes judged by whose hair is the prettiest.
                          Let me apologize in advance.
                          • 1 like

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post

                            Probably not There are very few classes judged by whose hair is the prettiest.
                            Most of these horses are fresh from lessons and 24/7 pasture life.
                            "Anyone who tries to make brownies without butter should be arrested." Ina Garten
                            • 4 likes

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by trubandloki View Post

                              That video is 58 minutes long, can you give us an idea where in that 58 minutes you are seeing lame horses?
                              Not even 30s in was the first one I personally saw, I don't know about OP but this isn't an issue specific to just this discipline. Just about every discipline has people who ride lame horses in it.

                              Another thing to remember when they're gaiting it can look alien to someone who isn't familiar with gaited breeds - that's why it's so important if you have a gaited horse to have a vet familiar with their gaits.. some people can think a horse that is gaiting is lame, and a lot of gaited breeds do tend to breed for a big head bob - not sure what they call it but it was discussed in another thread between gaited people. So much more to a lame horse than a head-bob anyway.

                              I saw a few non-ASBs too, looked like a handful of arabians as well.. Really liked the grey that was about a minute in.
                              AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012
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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by allons-y View Post
                                I finally got a day off work after 6 very stressful shifts. I wanted to see what was on the USEF live feed while I vegged out.
                                Nothing live, but I clicked on 3 and 5 gaited just for 'whatever'.

                                I'm so sad. I know my emotions are tired and raw from work, but still! Hard to even watch those poor horses.

                                First and foremost; I have nothing against ASBs, or any other breed. I believe horses truly are a gift from God, the coolest thing He ever created. Here's what I saw as I tried to relax my weary heart: Tense, inverted, some obviously lame, riders sitting on loins or further back. Horrible start to my day. Also, their poor tails.

                                The worst part? The horses looked really sincere, trying their hearts out to do whatever they were asked. I did see a couple that I would love to restart for Dressage, or anything really. But good golly, how do people watch this and see beauty, goodness, a celebration of the horse?

                                I'm looking at ASB for my next trail, Dressage, all-around partner. It's just hard to see what some of them are living as 'normal' life. I think I'm turning to jello as I age, too much sadness around.
                                Since sometimes original posts that are referenced get deleted or edited.

                                Yes, I would consider this a negative comment on Saddleseat and the presentation of Saddlebred horses.


                                I am not a fan of tail setting: hopefully that will end in the next decade. A show presentation of Saddleseat is all about extremes, which may not be to your taste. however, the horses do return to 'normal' activities like eating, drinking, lying down to sleep, picking up spilled feed from the ground... when back in stalls on the showgrounds.

                                Ballet is a form of dance, so is Jazz, Tap, Irish Stepdancing, Modern, Ballroom, etc. etc.
                                Movement within the ability of the dancer may be wrong for one form and right for another: doesn't mean the dancers should be pitied because they are not doing Ballet.

                                One might say the same for horse sport.
                                Last edited by D_BaldStockings; May. 16, 2017, 03:34 PM. Reason: flying fingers too creative on the keys
                                • 4 likes

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                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by luvmyhackney View Post

                                  Most of these horses are fresh from lessons and 24/7 pasture life.
                                  so probably shear-weilding maniacs weren't out cutting their tails off out of spite or to spoil their show records
                                  Let me apologize in advance.
                                  • 3 likes

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                                  • #37
                                    So just to reiterate, these are school horses, not owned by the riders, not top of the line show horses...school horses. The riders, and in the link those are JUNIOR riders, are being judged on their equitation and ability to show a horse they've never ridden...again school horses supplied by the host venue...it is a test of horsemanship indeed. There are a variety of types, ASBs, Morgans, NSH, a Friesian and maybe a few others mixes in there. Some certainly look past their prime (the friesian is noticably grey around its eyes), and I saw 2 that looked a little hitchy but were going happily forward.

                                    The OPs obsession with their tail length, and this statement in particular is...odd?

                                    "I have heard of show horses having manes or tails cut off by bad guys before competition to change who wins. I just wondered if something bad like that had happened."

                                    So, this is not a traditional saddlebred show, but an International Equitation competition using supplied school horses of varying types. The rider is being judged....and there are some damn good JUNIOR riders in that video.
                                    Wiiliam
                                    "A good horse is worth more than riches."
                                    - Spanish Proverb
                                    • 5 likes

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                                    • Original Poster
                                      #38
                                      Five horses have tails cut off in Canada - Horsetalk.co.nz

                                      Someone vandalized a students horse while at a show!! - Page 4 ...

                                      Thieves shear tail hair from five horses on Vancouver Island | CTV ...

                                      ​​​​​​ Palomino's tail and mane cut off in act of vandalism investigated by ...

                                      2 horses have tails cut off, officials say | Deseret News

                                      Horse's mane and tail cut off in an act of vandalism - Horse Channel

                                      • 1 like

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                                      • Original Poster
                                        #39
                                        This is why I wondered

                                        Comment

                                        • #40
                                          That's ok. But there are actually lots of horses who don't get vandalized You know, one of my favourite show jumpers is named the toymaker and he actually has a really short tail naturally. You can see in this video he just has a really short tail. https://youtu.be/o24L2Aqxeqo
                                          Let me apologize in advance.

                                          Comment

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