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Should I expect a refund or take it as a loss? Update on first page

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  • Should I expect a refund or take it as a loss? Update on first page

    DD was to show this weekend. Friday morning her brother and she came down with fevers, and a rash. I called the riding instructor to inform tham that I would let them know later that evening what was going on and if we would make the show. The evening came and both kids were actually worse so I had to cancel.

    We were to share expenses 3 ways (2. 17 yr old girls were showing the horse throughout the week several times). DD was originally supposed to do walk trot classes but in her last 2 lessons the horse had become stronger and less responsive and she took a nasty fall ( I still think that the older girls ruined a nice safe kids horse he was bought originally for kids 10 and under by the instructor) Most of that last bit really is a whole other issue anyways.

    DD ended up feeling safest after her fall to do leadline which I was ok with but it was still costing me 400 to split between 3 of us. I have to leave for work now but can break down cost of things later if need be. So should expect anything back after such short notice? btw DD is 7

    Update:

    I found a trainer that will come to my place and work with my horses he has been working one of my moms horses recently and has a real nice attitude with the horse. He wants to see if one of my current horses will work for DD. If so he will give her lessons on one of mine. If not we will start the search together for one that will work for DD. Out of 9 horses one has to work lol (actually only 4 are mine the other 5 belong to my BO but I can use any one of them also if they'd work).

    I was finally able to get the info for local 4h groups for DD also. Hopefully put the fun back into horses for DD whom is extremely excited about all of this.

    I did finally run into old trainer at the store he did approach me but almost acted affraid to I was pumping gas at the time. He only asked if we were done I said yes that dd no longer wanted to ride that horse. The money was never discussed. We were friendly towards one another and did talk about still maintaining a friendship without involving horses.

    So hopefully all will work out.
    Last edited by onlyanarabian; Jul. 21, 2010, 10:03 PM. Reason: update

  • #2
    If your DD had gone, would you have been OK splitting the charges 3 ways? If so, then I think you have to pay. The reality is that giving notice on Friday evening didn't give the instructor any leeway to find an alternative.

    Comment


    • #3
      First of all, I want to say at the outset that I do not have a lot of showing experience so I am by no means an expert. I am a bit confused by the post, though. Do you mean the entry fees? If so, I guess you could ask the show what the rules for cancellations are. Sometimes you can only cancel if there is a problem with the horse, and a problem with the rider doesn't count (I am sure others on this board are more knowledgable about what is typical).
      Are you also referring to expenses like trailering split between you and two other girls sharing the same horse? I am a bit confused. However, I would think that you would have to eat that type of thing with late notice.

      Comment


      • #4
        We do the Academy saddleseat thing where you basically rent the horse/tack/etc for the day with a flat fee to the trainer per class. I've never been in the position where I had signed us up and then we got sick at the last minute, and I have looked on all my paperwork and there is a lesson cancellation policy but no show cancellation policy.

        IIRC we had to cancel due to a scheduling conflict and did it on the Wednesday before the Saturday show, the trainer refunded the check, but I don't know about the Friday before a show - in some cases the horses arrive on Friday and there are expenses for stalls, shavings, all this incurred by the trainer for a horse she may not have to take anymore and she probably can't get her money back. I'd expect to possibly get a partial refund but it's totally up to the trainer and her policies, whether she has a cancellation policy, could have taken someone else and didn't, etc.. Sorry, and I hope your kids get better soon.
        Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
        Incredible Invisible

        Comment


        • #5
          Your instructor has probably already paid the entry fees and stall fees, which are usually non-refundable. If your instructor has to cross a state line to get to this show they have already paid the veterinarian for a health certificate. There are other expenses incurred by the instructor before the show even starts. If you decide that would want a refund think about it a little, your instructor either has to pay you back for things they will not be able to get a refund for, or they will have to get the families of the other 2 riders to pay more. If you were in one of the other family's shoes how would you feel if the other rider sharing the school horse backed out and now you had to pay more? If you were in your instructor's shoes do think it would be fair to refund you money they will never be able to get back because of no fault of their own?

          Comment


          • #6
            Of course you should still pay.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by onlyanarabian View Post
              So should expect anything back after such short notice? btw DD is 7
              Nope and it doesn't matter if DD is 7 or 70 years old. I don't understand why people think they should be able to cancel commitments at the last minute and get refunds (and I'm a student saying this -- not a trainer).

              Comment


              • #8
                Let's imagine the situation is the other way around.

                If the trainer came to you and said "(17 year old girl) got sick and cancelled last night. I'm going to need another $200 from you to cover fees." would you happily hand over the cash? Of course not. You wouldn't happily fork over $400 to a client if you were the trainer either.
                bar.ka think u al.l. susp.ect
                free bar.ka and tidy rabbit

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                • #9
                  Not that I know zip about showing but - I'd pay the show cost without murmur, and focus on the issue of the horse and use, which strikes me as more important and part of the reason the show cost sticks in your craw a bit.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    IMO, your kid being legitimately sick makes it a completely different story than if you just woke up Friday morning and decided against going to the show. You have to pay your stall fees and things that only had to do with your own horse, but a hauling fee and coaching fee I'd think could go either way. The right/polite thing to do is of course to offer your money, and if the other riders have manners they'll either thank you and turn it down or take it and give you lots of free babysitting! It sucks to be at either end regardless of anyone's financial situation but I really do think your kid being physically unable to ride could make it go either way.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You should pay for everything that will still be incurred - ie, the hauling, the entry fees, stall, etc. You should not have to pay for coaching IMHO, but it's a small part of the story most likely and I would pay it if the trainer asked with only minor inner grumbles.

                      The way to look at it is that other people have made decisions counting on you, and you would expect the same if the situation was reversed.

                      However, some slack, where it can be granted, is also appropriate given that no one really wants to spend the day with two kids carrying a nasty communicable disease.
                      If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ask for a breakdown of the fees (if you haven't already) - I would not expect to pay coaches fees (in full), I would expect to pay the cancellation fee (or complete fees, depending on the facility) for the classes/stall/transport costs

                        BUT
                        I also would've made a decision on friday am, giving the coach a chance to reorganize; since you wanted to wait until the evening before to make a final decision, I think you need to accept that you likely forfeited any chance of refunds ...

                        Of course, I would've likely cancelled after the nasty fall as it appears to be horse & trainer related; there are many ponies out there for your DD to ride & coaches that would ensure that your DD was enjoying her riding & being safe.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You will be paying the fee. But, I would most certainly address the other issues immediately before thinking about signing up for any more shows! I teach SS and am shocked at the many inappropriate mounts I see sent in the ring with small kids who look terrified. Standing on the rail w/ the other trainers, all I hear them say when the kid comes past is "Don't panic!" My kids may not be on the fanciest horses, but they're safe! Off my soap box....sorry, mom, pay up but also speak up!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            With most businesses if there's a cancellation 24-48 hours previous then it's non-refundable. Just normal standard operating procedure...a cancellation with refund last minute costs everyone else income.
                            Yes, it stinks when we (or our kids) get ill right before something and we take a bit of a financial hit, but it's normal and expected.
                            Agree with others, completely normal and expected to not get a refund. I personally wouldn't ask for one.
                            The extenuating circumstances probably have merit but don't apply to the refund/no refund issue and isn't something to base a decision on. But if there is a serious issue then do take it up with the coach at some point *after* the show.
                            You jump in the saddle,
                            Hold onto the bridle!
                            Jump in the line!
                            ...Belefonte

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              IF the trainer is appropriate for your DD, you might see if you can get some consideration on her next lessons if you pay the entire fee for the show-that-wasnt for her. So the trainer is still covered for the fees and the others arent out extra $$ but the trainer can offer reduced cost for a couple lessons to cover the work and coaching she didnt have to do at the show.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                You didn't ask this, but an idea might be to find a barn where they take a lot (or several) kids to local shows and where the costs are way less. That way, if you have to cancel at the last minute, paying your share is no big deal.

                                My trainer's barn takes lots of kids to the Dutchess County Fair, e.g., and provides everything (school horse, coaching, trailering, even show clothes that are free to borrow so long as they are returned clean). The cost? About $50 per child. And I live in a very expensive area!
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                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by SevenDogs View Post
                                  Nope and it doesn't matter if DD is 7 or 70 years old. I don't understand why people think they should be able to cancel commitments at the last minute and get refunds (and I'm a student saying this -- not a trainer).

                                  Thank you..this is a big pet peeve of mine...my biggest pet peeve is when people act like it was YOU who missed the lesson...(not referring to the OP, just irritates the snort out of me).

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    I really only wanted everyone else to chime in on what they would expect as I really wasn't expecting a refund. Now DH on the other hand is mad that I "gave away" money.

                                    Just to add some things to this I was given the bill 3 days before the show (I asked for weeks in advance for atleast an estimate). Was told that it had to be in by that day talk about scrambling to get exactly what was needed. The only thing that I really understand on the bill is DD's entry fee of $15 and shipping was $50. The show was about 2hrs away for the ones whom mentioned that.

                                    There is no policy on anything for having to cancel.

                                    The thing that really pissed me off was that my DH ran into her instructer and not once did he ask about how dd was doing but more interested in if I expected a refund and that there would be none. First off DH has nothing to do with the horse hobby that is something that DD and I do together. I didn't expect a refund but the way it was handled was wrong on there part (mentioning it to someone in a store that has nothing to do with the horse hobby).

                                    Yes I am looking for a new place for DD to take lessons at this point. As they ruined there only kids horse by letting the older girls use it and the horse became harder to handle for dd days before the show. DD was ready to do her first walk trot classes until a fall set her back because the horse lost its whoa and ran away with her having no control. I agreed to a leadline class for dd as it was unfair to take the show away from her all together after she worked so hard.

                                    I do understand that it would have been unfair for me to think of getting a refund and I wasn't expecting one. I only asked for opinions.

                                    BTW a 7yr old horse crazy girl must be sick to give up on something that she worked so hard for. I didn't mean that I should get a refund because she is 7.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by onlyanarabian View Post
                                      I really only wanted everyone else to chime in on what they would expect as I really wasn't expecting a refund. Now DH on the other hand is mad that I "gave away" money.

                                      Just to add some things to this I was given the bill 3 days before the show (I asked for weeks in advance for atleast an estimate). Was told that it had to be in by that day talk about scrambling to get exactly what was needed. The only thing that I really understand on the bill is DD's entry fee of $15 and shipping was $50. The show was about 2hrs away for the ones whom mentioned that.

                                      .
                                      Most trainers can give you an estimate of what the show will cost way earlier than 3 days before the show! Next time I would insist on being given an estimate before committing to show.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by onlyanarabian View Post
                                        Yes I am looking for a new place for DD to take lessons at this point.
                                        After reading this thread, this is the most important part!!! Good luck, and I hope you and your daughter have a wonderful time with the new trainer.
                                        It is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

                                        Comment

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