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When you feel the spook coming on...

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  • #21
    Relax is good advice.

    My horse has a couple of spooks.

    #1 OMG It's going to kill me, which is normally warranted (giant roaring machinery). No advice on those kind... haven't solved it yet.

    #2 "It's such a nice day... race ya home" Get's a one rein stop followed by some serious trot work.

    #3 The kind you described.... starts with craning his neck, then reluctance to walk forward. I feel his back tense, then drop out from under me... Those I can usually see coming. Tractor in the next field, suspicious looking whatever. Those I deal with by parking him in a large safe spot, and getting his attention back with some neck limbering (nose to toe while standing) and a barrage of foul language and dire warnings ("Whoa dammit") while the offending object leaves the area, or his back drops, which ever occurs first.

    Comment


    • #22
      A story that shows the importance of staying calm...

      Long story but the coles notes version:

      Mare was borrowed for a "Brave Heart Day" at a local kids camp. I was young and not thinking (really this was a bad idea...) They assured me the counsellor that was impersonating Mel Brooks knew how to ride.

      I unload my mare and meet the guy. He can't ride, but he can sit on a horse. But he's calm and confident and luckily mare mare neck reins so I give him an impromptu lesson. The plan is he is going to ride out in front of all the camp kids and give the famous speech that ends with "they can take our lives but they can't take our freedom). Its supposed to be a surprise. The kids didn't know why they were all gathered in this one area. So he rides in from around a thick hedgerow and gives the speech. Do you know what every one of those 200 kids did at the end of the spiel?

      Thats right they screamed their ever loving heads off.

      My mare's eyes have never been so large! Her ears were flicking frantically at the kids and back towards the rider. He, however, was oblivious to the sheer panic my mare was in and sat up there beaming happily with loose reins. His body language was telling her all was fine. Good mare that she is, she trusted her rider. If he had tensed up one iota she would have been out of there so fast.

      It was a dumb situation to put her in, but it ended well only due to his complete ignorance and thus relaxation.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by Aven View Post
        A story that shows the importance of staying calm...

        Long story but the coles notes version:

        Mare was borrowed for a "Brave Heart Day" at a local kids camp. I was young and not thinking (really this was a bad idea...) They assured me the counsellor that was impersonating Mel Brooks knew how to ride.

        I unload my mare and meet the guy. He can't ride, but he can sit on a horse. But he's calm and confident and luckily mare mare neck reins so I give him an impromptu lesson. The plan is he is going to ride out in front of all the camp kids and give the famous speech that ends with "they can take our lives but they can't take our freedom). Its supposed to be a surprise. The kids didn't know why they were all gathered in this one area. So he rides in from around a thick hedgerow and gives the speech. Do you know what every one of those 200 kids did at the end of the spiel?

        Thats right they screamed their ever loving heads off.

        My mare's eyes have never been so large! Her ears were flicking frantically at the kids and back towards the rider. He, however, was oblivious to the sheer panic my mare was in and sat up there beaming happily with loose reins. His body language was telling her all was fine. Good mare that she is, she trusted her rider. If he had tensed up one iota she would have been out of there so fast.

        It was a dumb situation to put her in, but it ended well only due to his complete ignorance and thus relaxation.
        Those camp kids had seen Braveheart, one of the most violent as well as boring and awful movies ever made?

        He was impersonating Mel Brooks (which would have been funny) or Mel Gibson (delivering a drunken anti-Semitic rant and then dumping the mother of his six children for a vapid blonde)?
        2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

        A helmet saved my life.

        Comment


        • #24
          The other thing that can help sometimes is laughing a little. It will relax your body and in turn relax the horse. And, if you really think about it, it is sort of hilarious that he is sometimes afraid of grass clippings. When my horse was a baby (3 years old), he was really worred about those plastic jump blocks for a short time. There was a lot of snorting and tail flagging and trotting in circles. It was really, really funny and sometimes I laughed, which calmed him down a lot. He's the least spooky horse I know now (at 5 years old).

          Or, you can just think about crazyhorses' fetal position comment. That got me laughing and could probably lighten the mood for you if you think about it in the midst of a spook.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by SmartAlex View Post
            Relax is good advice.

            My horse has a couple of spooks.

            #1 OMG It's going to kill me, which is normally warranted (giant roaring machinery). No advice on those kind... haven't solved it yet.
            Well, yeah, the solution is much the same. The biggest part of training horses is that we are teaching them to overcome their natural instincts and fears and trust us. If YOU say the scary machinery won't hurt them, and you have the trust there, then voila. If your internal reaction (and we all do it at least some times!) is- ooh, that is a big scary piece of machinery, I'm sure the horse is going to spook- well, the horse is going to pick up on your doubts and do exactly what you mentally predict he will do. If instead you think to yourself 'yeah, big scary piece of machinery but no big deal, onward we go,' then the horse's reaction will be 'well, okay, if you say we go, then we go, just sayin' I think we're about to die, but okay, whatever you want.'

            Mind you- it all starts from day one of training the horse, and builds from there. Before mine ever have to encounter the scary bulldozers or the speeding bicyclists or the horse eating pheasants and deer- they will have been schooled in the arena with Weird Stuff so that they start getting the message, go where I want you to go, it ain't gonna kill ya. Mind you, one never eliminates ALL spooks, and I am completely in agreement when my horse expresses concern over the presence of a mountain lion, for example- but the key is, it's okay to be scared, it's just not okay to DO anything about it along the lines of spinning, bucking, bolting, etc. The horse still has to obey the rider (even when rider has given permission to move a little more swiftly away from the area containing the legitimate threat.)

            Comment


            • #26
              I agree with the "relax", as our horses can sense any of our own inner tension, and they take it to some new levels from there. Just a few examples:

              I have a gelding who's main motto is "run now, live to think about it later". So, I need to be vigilant (not tense) to spot anything that might cause him to spook. I will look at it, tense my body for a split second, and then exhale and relax while looking away from it. What this tells him is that I spotted it first and determined that it was no big horse-eating monster.

              One day I was out in the field with a co-boarder who's horse was even spookier than mine, partially due to his rider's lack of confidence, she was always tense. Something spooked them, they both started to bolt (her horse first, my horse following his lead). I told her, sit deep, sit back and BREATHE!, and we got the horses back under control within a few strides.

              Then there was the killer wild turkeys (same two horses out riding on the 60 acre farm). I spotted the turkeys in the little stretch of woods down by the stream well before the horses did. I stayed relaxed, and said under my breath "calmly turn the horses 180 degrees and lets go a different way today. Once we were out of sight, I told my friend why the change of plans. Sometimes it is best to know which fight to pick.
              There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

              Comment


              • #27
                I've had a few chickens in my day... and what I can tell you is that by the time you're feeling the spook come on... it's already too late. Subconciously, you are probably assisting in it with a tense body position awaiting it to happen.

                As awful as it sounds... I've whacked my chickens with a bat about 5 mins before I'm even near it. It's more of a "WAKE UP... I'm the boss" reminder... then a "you're a naughty boy and should be punished" method. I will continue to fuss and drive them crazy til we pass that point. I also tend to bring along a companion but ignore them. It's the safety in numbers theory... but I make it quite clear that I've got my own agenda at getting Mr. Scaredie-Pants past this point and will be basically ignoring them and ask them to just cruise along like nothing is the matter.

                In my case, I always felt like being in the fields was their excuse to take over. So I made sure that my 110 lbs was in charge, not their half ton bodies & brains.

                Believe it or not, it worked every time. Sometimes they would try to find a "different region" to try to be silly... a firm "Cut it out" with a smack with the bat usually cleared up any question in their mind who was more scary, me or the object.

                Granted, you can't fault them when deer dart out of the woods or something like a truck backfires... but if there's nothing there and it's a repetitive thing... he/she has your number... and being a few steps ahead and expecting the WORST might be a good move to get you guys moving forward again.

                Comment


                • #28
                  there is so much stuff "out there" (aka outside the arena) that you can never desensitize them to all of it.

                  best solution as told to me by Sonya Crampton long time ago: he needs to be more tuned into what you want him to do than tuned into anything else around him.

                  so, I take my spooky dressage horse into the Big Hay Field where there are Trolls with Fangs and Claws ...

                  and I serpentine, change gaits, work on shoulder-in, do tons of transitions, canter uphill (only), do figure eights, etc etc. sometimes I sing "the Love Shack is a little place where we can get together, Love Shack baby, the Love Shack, that's where it's at..."

                  finally my reins get longer, my arms relax, my breath gets regular and soon we are both smiling and having a great time. :-) Then, we go all around the Big Hay Field at a brisk trot, several times if necessary.

                  I find, generally, that if I PRETEND to be confident it fools him completely and it starts to fool me, too. the singing helps. hopefully no one can hear me as I sound exactly like an Armadillo in heat.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Beverley View Post
                    Well, yeah, the solution is much the same. The biggest part of training horses is that we are teaching them to overcome their natural instincts and fears and trust us. If YOU say the scary machinery won't hurt them, and you have the trust there, then voila. If your internal reaction (and we all do it at least some times!) is- ooh, that is a big scary piece of machinery, I'm sure the horse is going to spook- well, the horse is going to pick up on your doubts and do exactly what you mentally predict he will do.

                    Oh yeah! Thankfully we haven't encountered this in the past month or so... why? I've been too darn chicken to put us into one of the areas where we might encounter one. And we're not going to try to face it until I get my act back together.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Well, this comes at an opportune time as I had to ride the crap out of both of my mares for spookiness last week.

                      We have a track out behind our barn and sometime last week, they built a burn pile in the middle. My first mare (who is rather large and muscular and who sounds similar to your gelding in the way she spooks) took one look and bolted, actually took off, in the other direction. She never did relax but we cantered and cantered around that track until she was at least under control. Two days later, I took her out again. I felt her grow about 2 hands and this time, she wheeled around but I was ready and after some capering, got her facing the right direction again...then she planted her feet. Now normally, I advocate NEVER dismounting from a misbehaving horse unless you think you are going to die but the mare would.not.move. I flailed around on her a bit trying to possibly even scare her into ANY kind of movement but no dice. So, I got off and lunged her with her reins in a circle around me. That seemed to do the trick and when I remounted (all in the same area; I didn't let her leave) she would move off my leg again. Once I got her going, I just kept on going even when I felt like I was going to go flying off at any minute. If I took off her pace at all I could feel she wanted to spin the other way so I held on for dear life and galloped around like a maniac

                      My other mare is only 3 and less opinionated but she was just as bad at first. She saw the dreaded burn pile and ran sideways all over the cornfield (oops) and backed up and reared and dropped her shoulder etc etc....I really felt this was an important moment in her training and that I HAD to make her go or it would reinforce her resistant streak that she is prone to. After much ado I was able to get her past though she tried it the next two times as well just not as committed. With her as well; I had to keep GOING..if I let her slow down to "look" she faltered. I'm pleased to report when I took her out the next day; she didn't try it all and even the older mare though not as convinced of my superiority managed to make it all the way around without loosing her mind.

                      So my conclusion is, that the horse must feel that they HAVE to go which means the rider has to commit wholeheartedly to getting past the spook. Easier said than done. This is a different situation than the tame spook at the mounting block in the indoor - THAT you ignore and work past. This kind of spook is blatant and dangerous and a horse needs to learn to trust your authority.

                      Some eggs are harder to crack than others; your gelding does sound difficult especially since he's been with so many trainers that obviously couldn't get him to submit. Essentially, that is the issue. He has decided that he is scared whether justified or not and doesn't want to give in when you tell him that he has no reason to be. You either have to overcome his will which could prove to be very difficult and possibly dangerous or live with him as he is. Only you really know if it can be done. If you do decide to get into it with him; my advice is to not let him turn back if you can help it (and if he does; wheel him right back around again), forget about not getting on the lawn (this could be bad advice ), carry a crop and stay on. Good luck!
                      \"Don\'t go throwing effort after foolishness\" >>>Spur, Man From Snowy River

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Tini Sea Soldier View Post
                        I've had a few chickens in my day... and what I can tell you is that by the time you're feeling the spook come on... it's already too late. Subconciously, you are probably assisting in it with a tense body position awaiting it to happen.

                        As awful as it sounds... I've whacked my chickens with a bat about 5 mins before I'm even near it. It's more of a "WAKE UP... I'm the boss" reminder... then a "you're a naughty boy and should be punished" method. I will continue to fuss and drive them crazy til we pass that point. I also tend to bring along a companion but ignore them. It's the safety in numbers theory... but I make it quite clear that I've got my own agenda at getting Mr. Scaredie-Pants past this point and will be basically ignoring them and ask them to just cruise along like nothing is the matter.

                        In my case, I always felt like being in the fields was their excuse to take over. So I made sure that my 110 lbs was in charge, not their half ton bodies & brains.

                        Believe it or not, it worked every time. Sometimes they would try to find a "different region" to try to be silly... a firm "Cut it out" with a smack with the bat usually cleared up any question in their mind who was more scary, me or the object.

                        Granted, you can't fault them when deer dart out of the woods or something like a truck backfires... but if there's nothing there and it's a repetitive thing... he/she has your number... and being a few steps ahead and expecting the WORST might be a good move to get you guys moving forward again.
                        See now, in the OP's situation, I definitely would not be smacking the horse leading up to the scary area. He's already afraid and he has had that fear reinforced many times because the OP tenses when she feels the spook coming on and sometimes dismounts following a big spook. I think you've got to give this horse a chance to be a good boy with a relaxed rider. Either the OP should try to BE that relaxed rider (which I am sure she is capable of, or at least capable of faking), or should find a relaxed rider to help the horse get through this little issue. Smacking the horse when he has done nothing wrong is a bit counterproductive and very confusing, if you ask me. But then again, I prefer "Chill, dude, we are in this together and everything is cool" to "WAKE UP...I'm the boss!"

                        OP, I think you are unlikely to obtain good results by intimidating/ "waking up" your horse while approaching the scary area. Put him to work by bending, asking for collection, asking for lateral movement, yes. Just smacking him out of nowhere, no.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Just wanted to add (though I already wrote a novel) that I don't think relax is the right advice here.

                          There is definitely a time when that works, especially with younger horses that are really reading their rider's body language but for the older horse that is planning a big spook...not so much. I think this type of horse is trying it's rider on for size and trying to intimidate and relaxing won't make one bit of difference.

                          Just my opinion though.
                          \"Don\'t go throwing effort after foolishness\" >>>Spur, Man From Snowy River

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            Thanks for the advice guys. I've tried it all.

                            As far as the Mel Brooks (!) example, I've gone so far as to drop my stirrups, and just hang as long as he wants to, no backwards allowed, no eating, Just Simply Waiting Him Out. THAT usually gets us past the big blue meanies but honestly that last ride was just not going anywhere.

                            I'm also reluctant to think that it was my riding (that time) since he continued the snorting giraffe behaviour while handwalking.

                            I think a spank will do the trick -- he offered to spin and truck back home: I just spun him back around and made him plant his feet. My bad for pushing him beyond the hayfield entrance before he was 'ready' while mounted because then I felt the TNT building.

                            It's that tense, drop-out-from-under-you feeling that I was looking to diffuse. And when the head goes up, I can't predict what direction we'll be heading next. In the past, cranking the neck around and doing impossibly small spins has worked, but again, I feel guilty forcing this issue on the trap rock.

                            Having said that, he's been restarted, been taken off all grain, has had his supplements all removed... all of which make things worse. No grain, and he gets ulcer-like issues (partially denuded epithilium was the diagnosis from the scope), the e/selenium helps with muscle softness (his blood test reveal he's borderline deficient) and the magnesium -- well-- I've just learned how important *that* is.

                            We're going for a week of lunging and starting back on the field once it's been hayed.

                            This is one horse that really makes me remember the adage: Ride the horse you HAVE. It's tough to forget the last ride, because with this critter, every day's different. Like a box of chocolates per se.. You just never know what you're gonna get.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Sansena View Post
                              . . .
                              This is one horse that really makes me remember the adage: Ride the horse you HAVE. It's tough to forget the last ride, because with this critter, every day's different. Like a box of chocolates per se.. You just never know what you're gonna get.

                              I absolutely remember playing over disobediences in my head. Over and over, what would I do differently, and go back to whatever spot it was and she would just walk on by, and do something completely different somewhere else.

                              Good luck. I did find that "terrain traps" as someone referred to them on another thread, are the places I had so few options that a disobedience would be a big deal.
                              Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                              Incredible Invisible

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
                                Well, I'd say right now you're kind of laying there like a possum in the road so it's no surprise when someone runs you over!

                                The most important part is to not let it happen at all so instead of a peaceful hack, put him on the bit and march him forward with contact on the reins and both your legs on. If he can't behave on a loose rein he doesn't get the privlage.

                                If you are on a peaceful hack and he even thinks about craning, give him a tap with your whip, close the contact, and put both legs on. Ask him to flex his head, and squeeze. If you feel like he might run away consider a pelham or something where you can enforce the whoa with some leverage.

                                Another alternative is to put him on the bit and power trot past the scary area, starting your trot well before. You can also tire him out with some extra hard ring work first, and if he has a cow, take him back to the ring and work him some more. Coming home isn't a treat, the hack is.

                                If he's actually seriously scared of something new I don't have a problem with a little stand and stare, PROVIDED that he marches forward as soon as you ask. Basically the second you ask him to go and he DOES NOT that's kind of a gimmie. Same with getting off, maybe with a baby horse, or past a new thing, but he's been there done that.

                                At this point it sounds like he scares you and you kind of give in, freeze up, he goes to town on it, and you perpetuate the cycle. It's about taking charge of the situation and not sitting and waiting for it to happen.
                                +1
                                http://www.camstock.net/

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  I remember another related story... I did once watch my dear husband (a pretty much self-taught rider with no fears or preconceptions) convince my old mare to go for a trail ride around the fields BY HERSELF. This is a horse that hates going out by herself.

                                  I watched from the ring as they reached the scary point of no return where you turn down into the first hay field, leaving all signs of the farm behind. She stopped. She turned around to head home. He turned her back around. She stopped, she turned around to head home. He turned her back around. This went on (with NO drama, whacking, etc.) for about ten minutes. I figured it wasn't going to work. I debated shouting advice. Then eventually I noticed that she wasn't turning around anymore. She was just standing there while he gently flapped his legs and clucked. That continued for about five more minutes. Then I looked up and they had disappeared.

                                  A while later they appeared in the far distance, trotting merrily along. He just out-waited her, but insisted, gently, that she had no choice but to take him on the ride. She's the type who will get quite a bit extra agitated if you start whacking, and his strategy of just "having all day" to sit there and keep gently insisting that he was going thataway eventually wore her down. It actually took less work than I would have expected.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Ulcers maybe? A friend of mine has a spooky, SPOOKY boy, with no other symptoms of ulcers (bad breath, bad ahir coat, etc). Put him on Smart-paks ulcer medicine and in three weeks he is a much, much calmer horse on trail rides. Things he used to spook at consistantly he just glances at and is like "Meh..."
                                    I want a signature but I have nothing original to say except: "STHU and RIDE!!!

                                    Wonderful COTHER's I've met: belleellis, stefffic, snkstacres and janedoe726.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Hay

                                      Sansena: It also might be a fitness issue with you and consequently, the horse has gotten your number. Happened to me!

                                      I broke my ankle in 2008. When I got back on to ride, I was SO out of shape. I was like a sack of potatoes. My horse slowly figured out that he had my number. He got worse and worse.

                                      Then, I bought a treadmill. I do about 1 - 2 miles a night. And, I worked up slowly. Good golly, I could barely get .25 a mile in. Again, now I'm up to 1 - 2 miles a night as well as other fitness things. Being more fit has helped with my fear issues which he was SO reading and then taking advantage.

                                      Also when my guy sticks his head in the air, I pull it in the opposite direction and apply leg. Keep circling or whatever...Leg yielding and dressage movements seem to amp my horse up so I keep him moving right and left.

                                      I also don't soothe horses going past anything too freaky. I found my guy was looking for the stop, the pat, kind words and it amped up his spookiness at EVERYTHING. Now I march past with a vice-like leg, turning right and left, circle, then more right and left. Don't let him get his head in the air like a giraffe. Once that has happened, he's taken over. Pull his head away from the scary object, right and left, right and left and most of all, THINK I'm not scared, I'm not scared!

                                      I might even take this horse back a notch, more aggressive schooling in the ring. You know trot circles, right, left, straight, transistion walk, trot, canter back to walk to stop to back up 3 steps then immediately up to trot. Keep working him and then get back out on the trail when he's pooped.

                                      Another thing I've learned as I'm older, I make sure I've eaten something before I ride. Sometimes I get overly hungry riding and then run out of gas. You don't want to run out of gas before the horse does. He knows when you've run out of gas.

                                      Good luck!
                                      Sorry! But that barn smell is my aromatherapy!
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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by TheHorseProblem View Post
                                        Those camp kids had seen Braveheart, one of the most violent as well as boring and awful movies ever made?

                                        He was impersonating Mel Brooks (which would have been funny) or Mel Gibson (delivering a drunken anti-Semitic rant and then dumping the mother of his six children for a vapid blonde)?
                                        LOL wrong Mel.. it was a horrible movie. Not sure if they had all seen it, but they had seen the hype. And what do you do when your beloved camp counsellor rides on on a real live horse and delivers that speech (or part of it)?

                                        You cheer and scream your little 13 year old lungs out...

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                                        • #40
                                          I disagree entirely with "ride the horse you have" Instead I think of it as "Ride the horse you WANT to have"
                                          http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

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