Issue Resolved, Thanks Everyone

[cajunbelle]

The next step you take..... should be direct, don't assume or beat around the bush. Whatever your trainer decides to do after "The Talk about Responsibility & the Injury" should have you either finding another trainer or feeling your horse is in good hands.

[onelanerode]

If I were that trainer, I would be doing what EqT said ... appalled at my own stupidity and doing everything in my power to make the situation right, including paying all bills, veterinary or otherwise, resulting from my colossal error in judgment.

If I were the client, I would be expecting a reaction like EqT's and would be appalled if the vet bill due to trainer's negligence became my responsibility when he went against my explicit instructions. If I did not get the impression that trainer was truly sorry for the outcome of his poor decision, I would no longer avail myself of his services ... I'd be too worried about what other wishes of mine he'd decide to override (and then stick me with the bill when the shit hit the fan).

[sdlbredfan]

I would expect trainer to pay the bill. (some content snipped for brevity)
Not to say that trainers shouldn't listen to owners, but the OP admitted she herself had tested if the horse could trailer in a single stall, so why is it so horrific for the trainer to do the same?

The part apparently overlooked, that caused your question above, is that the trainer and owner had an agreement (contract) such that the trainer understood and had stated he would follow instructions, that the horse can only be trailered a certain way. Disregarding that is not only negligent standard of care, but is breach of contract. I hope the OP not only sticks him with the bill and leaves, but takes the additional action I recommended previously, at least to the extent of notifying BBB.

[Jaegermonster]

Your trainer needs to pay the bills. I would absolutely insist upon it.
And I would file suit against them if that was what it took.
I might consider paying the vet myself just because none of this was the vet's fault and he needs to be paid, but in the end, that trainer would be paying the bill. And I would be moving my horse.

And no way in hell would some trainer, and I don't care if it is George Freakin Morris himself, is going to tell me who is or isn't going to haul MY horse. It's my horse, I decide. Period.

[Boomer]

.. He is not charging me for trailering, since I told him I wouldn't pay someone to do something I can do myself. He would rather haul a horse free to maintain control of their health, ...

Anyways, I wasn't asking for advice on my trainer, I just wanted to find out from other horse people if I was out of line thinking I shouldn't be paying the vet bill.

Your trainer is responsible for the vet bill in my opinion. You stated "He would rather haul a horse free to maintain control of their health" - he failed to maintain control of your horse's health by ignoring what you told him about your horse's past.

*Unless* he asked you before shipping about trying the horse in a single stall and you agreed to do it, then the bill is yours.

[fivehorses]

One thing to understand, most trainers are adored by their clients. Therefore, I think why OP is defending trainer.

I have a horse I sent to the trainers. Asked her to make sure my horse was by himself in turnout, or with a very docile horse. He was a wimp, even though he was 17.2 and part draft.

So, what did she do? first day, put him in a round pen with a nasty mare...so he could teach her manners. What happened? My horse got beat up. Why did my horse have to get beat up? What part of my direction was not heard or believed?

No worse for the wear, and no serious injury, BUT. Why is it that trainers think they know better than an owner? I suppose it is part of the job mentality...people coming to them to do things with their horses the people are incapable of doing.

I would most certainly expect the trainer to pay this bill. I would call the vet's office and direct them to send the bill to your trainer, not to you. You did not request the service and it was against your directions that caused the accident.

I know you didn't ask, but I would find another trainer. Arrogant trainers don't learn. I would not put my horse in a second chance position...what if it does not work out so well, then what will you feel.

[Jaegermonster]

Dont' get me wrong, I love my trainer to death. I think she is great, and she has helped me and my horse more than I can say. Actually both my trainers. They are in different disciplines, compliment each other nicely, and I can't say enough good about either of them.

But as long as it is my horse, and my checkbook, it is my decision period. Same for the OP. I pick the farrier, I pick the vet and i will be there for the appointments. If I like and can afford a farrier or vet they recommend, fine, If not I'll find another. I can only do what i can do.
If the trainer doesn't like it, I'll find a new trainer. But my trainers also respect me and my horsemanship enough not to be like that.
IMHO, it went south in the OP's first post where she said the trainer basically forbade her to haul her own horse. EXCUSE ME?
As much I love my trainer, I have also been around long enough and don't have a problem asserting myself, especially when it comes to my horses. And if I had a horse that had trailer issues, and I had my own rig, I would be hauling it or it wouldn't go.

[sdlbredfan]

Yes, absolutely correct! I agree and am hoping this will edumacate anyone who does not already have this attitude, referring to the 'And no way in hell would some trainer, and I don't care if it is George Freakin Morris himself, is going to tell me who is or isn't going to haul MY horse. It's my horse, I decide. Period.'

Edited to add, I also agree with those who pointed out that OP allowing trainer to be a control freak was a bad decision, that I hope has been a learning experience for OP. There is a big difference between paying a trainer for training, and allowing the trainer to act as if he owns the horse. It is not only not appropriate for trainer to have 'forbidden' OP to trailer her own horse, but shows a distinct lack of guts/backbone/sense of what is or is not right on the part of OP to have been so passive and allow it. I am guessing that the OP is very young and does not fully understand that she who pays the bills makes the decisions/has final say on what is done with or to her horse. Sigh...this is such a sad story on so many levels...

[kookicat]

Your trainer needs to pay the bills. I would absolutely insist upon it.
And I would file suit against them if that was what it took.
I might consider paying the vet myself just because none of this was the vet's fault and he needs to be paid, but in the end, that trainer would be paying the bill. And I would be moving my horse.

And no way in hell would some trainer, and I don't care if it is George Freakin Morris himself, is going to tell me who is or isn't going to haul MY horse. It's my horse, I decide. Period.

This.

Jingles for your boy!

[findeight]

I am standing by my original response on this regardless of OP trying to justify it and defend the trainer's actions...and a bleeding cut 2 days later, vet bill and implying additional drugs and meds charges out of his own stash would be on the June bill as a result of his actions ignoring repeated pleas not to do what he did is indefensible.

Any trainer that forbids me from hauling my own horse to generate extra dollars for themselves (and really, what other reason would there be to tell an owner they could not haul their own?)? Forget it.

This one just gets me because that horse, previously in a trailer wreck and known to be claustrophobic, was put into a claustrophobic sitauation...and how do you think that horse felt being so totally terrified he went down. Failing being able to fight or flee, he thrashed, flailed, struggled and hurt himself. TOTALLY unneccesssary.

Somebody has to speak up for that horse having to endure that and the ensuing injury and I'll do it.

I am with whoever said they didn't care if it was George friggen Morris, nobody is going to put their horse in that kind of situation where their terror gets them hurt.

Yeah, wonderful trainer. But do what you want. It is your horse and your call...unless the trainer tells you to do something else.

[Dressage Art]

Mistakes happen even with supper seasoned trainers. Some people do think that they can prevent/control everything with horses, but at times they just didn't deal yet with enough horses in different situations. Some crap may come out out of nowhere! And EVERYBODY is to blame, including owner, trainer and a horse. Nobody put a gun to owner's head to trailer like that with her trainer, it was owner's decision . But it's the trainer who was in charge. It's that horse who decided to lie down for whatever reason in a trailer.

I wonder if your trainer will ever agree to trailer your horse again?
I wonder if you will allow your trainer to trailer your horse again?

[sketcher]

And my trainer mentioned the additional drugs and medication my horse required due to the injuries - which I assume will be on my June bill.

I'm sorry, this trainer of yours could walk on water but this last little tidbit would have absolutely pushed me over the edge no matter how much I loved the guy.

This trainer is not only outright negligent and unprofessional for allowing you to foot the vet bill but to forewarn you that there would be more bills forthcoming?

There is something very wrong here. You are setting yourself and your pocketbook up to be taken advantage of and I would strongly suggest you define this portion of your relationship in no uncertain terms. He is feeling you out and you can be assured he may be a fantastic trainer when you are watching but how will you ever know what shortcuts are taken when you are not there?

It is one thing to be forgiving of a lapse in judgment, and a severe one at that, but as the saying goes - make sure you aren't so open minded that your brains fall out.

I'm glad your horse is ok. It could have been much worse. Heck, you could have ended up with a horse injured beyond repair and other horses on the trailer injured as well. In my little world that lack of judgment is on par with the judgment of the dinks that decided to drill for oil when they knew beforehand there were design problems and outright chose to ignore them.

[mvp]

You know, you can be right all day and it still might not serve you well in the end.

I can't believe the people laying down pretty life-disrupting edicts.

Leave ASAP. What if there is no better within commuting distance for the OP?

Risk stiffing the vet as part of a fight with a trainer. Think no vet has ever seen this happen before? What happens the next time you are at a show and need DVM help from the same guy?

Make the trainer pay through litigation if necessary? Well how much is the bill and how much does your attorney charge per hour?

Would never board with someone who controlled too much-- dictated vets, farriers, shipping arrangements and the like? Then you won't be joining the barns of many BNTs. One dude published a description of the way things work in his hunter operation in _Practical Horseman_ a few years back. People say they wouldn't play ball, but I don't see the guy going out of business. Dictatorship apparently is alive and well.

Or you might have to bail on what's otherwise the best place close and give up a trainer who has been rocked back on his heels a bit.

In your spot, I'd hope/expect not to see treatment charges on my next board bill. If I did, perhaps this would be the opening in which you can begin a conversation about who pays for whose mistake if you want.

[RockinHorse]

Mistakes happen even with supper seasoned trainers. Some people do think that they can prevent/control everything with horses, but at times they just didn't deal yet with enough horses in different situations. Some crap may come out out of nowhere! And EVERYBODY is to blame, including owner, trainer and a horse. Nobody put a gun to owner's head to trailer like that with her trainer, it was owner's decision . But it's the trainer who was in charge. It's that horse who decided to lie down for whatever reason in a trailer.

I wonder if your trainer will ever agree to trailer your horse again?
I wonder if you will allow your trainer to trailer your horse again?

(Bolding mine)

Really, you are assigning some of the blame to the horse ? Really?

[RockinHorse]

It is your horse and your call...unless the trainer tells you to do something else.

Well said

[Jaegermonster]

I can't believe the people laying down pretty life-disrupting edicts.

Risk stiffing the vet as part of a fight with a trainer. Think no vet has ever seen this happen before? What happens the next time you are at a show and need DVM help from the same guy?

Make the trainer pay through litigation if necessary? Well how much is the bill and how much does your attorney charge per hour?

Would never board with someone who controlled too much-- dictated vets, farriers, shipping arrangements and the like? Then you won't be joining the barns of many BNTs. One dude published a description of the way things work in his hunter operation in _Practical Horseman_ a few years back. People say they wouldn't play ball, but I don't see the guy going out of business. Dictatorship apparently is alive and well.

\

That was me. And I did say I would pay the vet and sue the trainer if they don't make it right. The vet totally should be paid. In most states in the US you don't need an attorney to file a suit, unless you just want one. You can pick up a packet at your courthouse that spells out how to file the suit, get the person served etc etc. I know because I have done it. Depends on the amount of $$ involved.

That was Geoff Teall who published the article in PH. And yes I have been around BNT's and their barns most of my riding life. I don't care who it is, I would never be told that I could not be at vet and farrier appointments and just be handed the bills. Those types of trainers count on treating their clients like mushrooms, keeping them ignorant so they don't know any different, and collecting their checks.
I keep my horses at home now and trailer in to a trainer who respects my horsemanship and the fact that it is indeed my horse and my checkbook.

[chaltagor]

(Bolding mine)

Really, you are assigning some of the blame to the horse ? Really?

Yeah, well, he did agree to get on the trailer and go in that small stall. He should have said something.

[Lucassb]

You know, you can be right all day and it still might not serve you well in the end.

I can't believe the people laying down pretty life-disrupting edicts.

Leave ASAP. What if there is no better within commuting distance for the OP?

Risk stiffing the vet as part of a fight with a trainer. Think no vet has ever seen this happen before? What happens the next time you are at a show and need DVM help from the same guy?

Make the trainer pay through litigation if necessary? Well how much is the bill and how much does your attorney charge per hour?

Would never board with someone who controlled too much-- dictated vets, farriers, shipping arrangements and the like? Then you won't be joining the barns of many BNTs. One dude published a description of the way things work in his hunter operation in _Practical Horseman_ a few years back. People say they wouldn't play ball, but I don't see the guy going out of business. Dictatorship apparently is alive and well.

Or you might have to bail on what's otherwise the best place close and give up a trainer who has been rocked back on his heels a bit.

In your spot, I'd hope/expect not to see treatment charges on my next board bill. If I did, perhaps this would be the opening in which you can begin a conversation about who pays for whose mistake if you want.

Gotta say I'm with mvp on this. For sure it was a big screw up but I wouldn't leave a trainer I was otherwise happy with over this incident.

And I have a horse that was in a trailer accident (before I bought him) so I am pretty sensitive to that issue. I do insist on trailering him myself - because I worry about someone making the same mistake. My horse is a very quiet, docile type and no one ever believes he will have any problems shipping, and I could see them thinking that I was simply over protective... as the OP's trainer probably did.

Meanwhile I would be willing to bet that it's at least even money that the trainer will offer to pay the vet bill. It's pretty wild in my opinion to be talking about a lawsuit at this point. And I agree that if there are additional charges on next month's bill, I'd have a conversation about that. But I bet there won't be.

OP... hope your horse heals fast and is no worse for the wear after his unfortunate adventure.

[fivehorses]

My trainer was extremely apologetic and feels terrible. He took responsibility for everything,
However, as I was leaving the show today, the show vet came up to me to get my address to mail me the bill. And my trainer mentioned the additional drugs and medication my horse required due to the injuries - which I assume will be on my June bill.

So, your trainer took responsibility for the accident...no, not really. Taking responsibility is cleaning up your messes.
He messed up big time.

I guess I just don't put up with people trying to screw me for their mistakes.
He might be a great trainer, even George fricking Morris(love that line), but he is not doing right by you.

I don't deal with people who don't do right. Maybe my tolerance level is less than when I was younger, but as my dad would say, you're either with me, or against me.
Black and white perspective.
If your trainer cared about you, he would offer to pay the vet bill, and never would add on to your bill for the drugs, etc he used due to him injuring your horse.

This is not the same situation where he over rode your horse or injured him thru no fault of the training. This was a deliberate action of ignoring your concerns, and obviously the concerns of the people who owned him before you.

I would be so long gone, or step up to the plate and be telling the trainer how things are going to change.
Understandably, you may not live in an area where there are many good trainers, so you have to put up with things like this.

That in itself is sad, because that is when you become a victim...someone vulnerable to someone else. Unfortunately, trainers know this, so do vets, farriers, etc.
Those who lack a strong ethical backbone would not take advantage of this situation, but many will.
I hope you can have a serious sit down with the trainer and ask why you should incur the expense of an injury caused by his actions, which he was forewarned and asked not to do.
He put your horse in deliberate harm.
This kind of thing riles me up. Probably because I have been there, done that...fall victim to someone else's unprofessionalism and my horse is the one who pays the price.

[sdlbredfan]

Yes, Findeight, I thought of that too, but am so glad you said it more eloquently than I could. (referring to 'This one just gets me because that horse, previously in a trailer wreck and known to be claustrophobic, was put into a claustrophobic sitauation...and how do you think that horse felt being so totally terrified he went down. Failing being able to fight or flee, he thrashed, flailed, struggled and hurt himself. TOTALLY unneccesssary.

Somebody has to speak up for that horse having to endure that and the ensuing injury and I'll do it.')

What trainer did, in forcing the horse to go through such stress was completely abusive treatment, even if the horse had not hurt itself. There is no way that I could ever consider that a 'wonderful' trainer, as OP referred to him. OP either has a very limited range of experience (very young maybe) or does not realize that an owner has the right and responsibility to be the horse's advocate. I would have been out of that barn the minute the trainer 'forbade me' to trailer my horse somewhere. Just the fact the OP just meekly said 'OK' and let trainer do that means there is a real lack of backbone, guts or something....hope OP finds whatever is needful to make sure trainer pays for his mistake, literally and figuratively. I just pray the poor horse has not losts its mind over this, OP said horse was previously abused. And well duh, dumbbutt trainer abuses him again by subjecting him to terror and injury. A 'wonderful' trainer my posterior!