Rescues: how do you train 'green' humans?

[HorsesinHaiti]

A question for the rescues/ AC people who also act as 'social workers'. The worst homes, animals are siezed from. But for most homes, if the owners can be educated in appropriate horse care then education is what happens. New but rather clueless owners with a horse they don't know how to handle are prime examples.

But who and how does the education? "Here's a list of trainers, please use one"? Volunteers? "Meet this, this, and this standard or else"? Especially for cases where the owner will obviously not be able to pay for 30 days training on the horse, or full board while they learn, or some of the 'usual and ideal' methods of getting horse and owner up to speed to fix whatever issue is at hand.

I'm wondering about horse training issues as much as physical conditions issues.

[AnnaCrew]

You know, as a complete beginner owner of a rescue horse just 2 years ago... Of course, "Here's a list of trainers, please use one"? "Meet this, this, and this standard or else"? CAN be helpful as well as all the reading on internet, but from my experience the most important problem is "for cases where the owner will obviously not be able to pay for 30 days training on the horse, or full board while they learn".

Horses are such a money eaters, and rescue horses need maybe even more so if they can not afford THAT, how they will be able to afford heavy vet bills and such? When I put money together that we had spent on our horses just in 2 years...
They DO NEED good vet care, good food, training... OK, we had learned a lot within past two years and I can say that I do sleep better at nights now, so from complete beginners and idiots we had become something a bit better - novice level (maybe) - horse owners. But anyway - without a good heavy purse it would be impossible.

In our case it took few months until we learned what we need for our first horse and where we can get it (horse was an absolute surprise in our life) - from halter to trainer, including COTH community, but money is the most - if you can't afford the vet bill, board, training... It is really better not to have a horse. Just my 2 cents.

I know that experienced horse people can trim hoofs by themselves, cut on vet bills as they do know a lot about minor problems and so on.... But beginners... No.

[cowgirljenn]

Are you asking what those of us who go out and talk to owners who have been reported to AC/rescues do when they don't know how to handle their horses?

If so, there's not much we CAN do. Animal control is strictly concerned with the legal definitions of abuse and neglect. If the owners need education on how to feed their horses and what vet care to give, then the AC officer will give them that info. We have a hand-out for owners that we let local ACOs have a copy of (and let them use). It goes over basic feeding, de-worming, farrier care, vet care requirements. It also discussed having a trainer help with difficult horses, gelding stallions, not breeding unless you know what you are doing, etc.

If we, as a rescue, go out and talk to an owner with law enforcement or at law enforcement's request and find out they have a training problem or a wild horse they cannot handle, we'll advise them to contact a trainer for major problems and give them brief education for minor problems. BUT we have legal power to force them to do anything.



NOW - if you are talking about how we deal with novice/green people who want to adopt or who come to us wanting more knowledge.... we do tend to point them in the direction of trainers and books, and we also operate an email list for our members where they can discuss training issues. And we put on the Bluebonnet Horse Expo annually - it includes clinics on riding, training and various aspects of horse care. Topics range from those appropriate for beginners to those appropriate for more advanced horsemen and horsewomen.

[Crosswinds Rescue]

I'm also not sure what the question was...

If you are asking about adopters who are green horsemen/women, we encourage them to board as step A. They have to convince our board they are capable of caring for said horse before they can take him/her home. If they are local, they are encouraged to volunteer here, and learn with us along side the horse they are considering.

As far as owners who are in trouble, we will help when and where we can, but in most cases the only help they want from us is for us to take the horse off their hands (ideally paying them for it -- sorry, no), and, sadly, in some situations, isn't that long after that we will be getting another call as, you guessed it, they are in trouble again.

We too offer a free email list iwth training and horse ownership and health discussions, and for local folks we're often happy to come see a horse with a minor or might-be-minor problem, to help them avoid a large vet bill for 'a runny nose'. We encourage folks to volunteer with us, and they are welcome to watch how we train, to learn with us, and many of our volunteers become junior trainer volunteers with us over time.

[Ajierene]

A rescue should operate similar to a reputable breeder or dealer. Sell the horse that fits the person. Why sell a horse to someone that needs 30 days of training? If you are selling a young/green horse and the person has a trainer and a plan lined up anyway, then fine. People who are new to horses are much more likely to want something they can ride right away. Hence, work with them got get a horse that fits their abilities and riding goals.

Other than that, make sure they either know what they need to know to keep the horse at home or ensure they are going to board the horse someplace reputable.

[equineartworks]

I tell everyone they don't want a horse...they can just borrow mine

Like Anna Crew I new to horse ownership. I have loved them all my life, grabbed every opportunity to work with them and have devoured every book about care, training etc ever written. I have also surrounded myself with people whose horses I adore and want to spend time with. I figure they are doing something right! Having a horse live with you is different...it's hard work that you really need to love. And you need a thick skin and a strong sense of knowing what is best for the horse...not yourself.

I also worked in a vet clinic for years and have always had my share of animals running my life, which helps. I have a great vet and farrier and I am not ever embarrassed to ask for advice.

I don't know how rescues do it, I really don't. Like having children, horse ownership should come with some sort of skills competency test!

[HorsesinHaiti]

As usual, the original post is vague in an attempt to be short. I’ll try to clarify. My question is about those cases where someone already has a horse in the ‘backyard’, by surprise or by (bad) choice. Scenario: owner really wants to try, but is clueless. They try to take care of feet, vet, etc when those basics are pointed out to them. But, said horse isn’t fully broke yet. Not broke to saddle, or not broke to halter, not broke to farrier/vet, maybe has issues. So farriers etc. (shoutout to Aventura2!) won’t risk themselves working on the horse. Green kind owner who wanted to do right and give the horse a safe landing from somewhere doesn’t have a CLUE how to even ground break one. ‘Send the horse to a trainer and take some horse handling lessons’ would be my no-brainer answer also. But what if the green, gave-a-safe-landing owner doesn’t have an extra $500 or $1000 per month for several months to send the horse out for training? COTHers often say ‘sell the horse if you can’t provide what it needs, including training’. Except, we also know that THIS kind of horse is the kind most at risk of eventually winding up in the kill pens if sold as is. Owner would like to do right, but decisions have been what they’ve been and now they just don’t have the available cash to go the ‘pro trainer’ route. Sometimes the helpful neighborhood horseman/COTHer (shoutout to BuddyRoo and Woodland!) steps in and does the training or rehoming, but sometimes no such person offers help to the owner. Not everyone will (or sometimes can) work two or three extra jobs to come up with money for a traditional pro trainer. The horse is still there, still fed but untrained, still at risk if things don’t change. In this scenario, and making the best of a far from ideal situation, what do/can rescues, AC people, and others generally do to try and help the owner and horse get off the road that leads to disaster?

Sometimes it’s give advice and a trainer list and hope they use it. Do you have any other options you use? Keep a list of trainers and 4-H types willing to volunteer some time and advice? Encourage the owner to volunteer at the rescue and get ‘hands on lessons’? Training expos for current horse owners (don’t we wish people would sponsor more of those!!)

[Crosswinds Rescue]

Haiti,
Ah, i've got your question now!

FIRST -- if owner is trying to get out from under said untrained horse as they cannot afford training, we do our very best to help him/her do that. If we have space here, great -- training is our nitch and what we believe we do well -- and so we will often take in those horses, solve the problems, and get them on to a new life with someone closer matched to the horse's needs. If we don't have space, we very actively network to help these horses get into better futures -- we estimate we help about 8 horses per month in this manner during winters, and 2-3 per month in the better weather.

If they WANT to learn, we will gladly help them learn. they are welcome to volunteer here and we will teach them what we do and why, as much as we can. And we encourage them to be sure they've got a GOOD basic here before going home and trying anything with their own horse. We'll often go and show them how we use that roundpenning skill with THEIR horse and help them figure out how to do it themselves before we head for home.

Sadly, the ones that at least WE tend to get calls on (such as AC asking us to give someone some help), actually are in over their heads because they won't let anyone help, not really. Work with a neighbor farmer and help to give them a half ton of hay b/c their horses have nothing to eat over winter? thank you so much! now that they have all this hay...yep, you guessed it, next time you drive by there are now 2, or 3, or 4 more horses in that small drylot of a yard and yep, they're going to be out of hay again in about 2 weeks.

It becomes the "I couldn't just leave him there" discussion which, while the concept we sure get -- believe us, the reality is that we turn down horses every month -- often many in a month -- because we realize that we are doing that horse no favors by putting him here and causing him to eat the others out of house and home or at risk because we can't afford vaccines for that many etc.

We have also given several training seminars with inexpensive requested donations, many about simple skills like farrier care, trailer training, and so on.

I don't know if that really answers what you were asking?

[Crosswinds Rescue]

A rescue should operate similar to a reputable breeder or dealer. Sell the horse that fits the person. Why sell a horse to someone that needs 30 days of training? If you are selling a young/green horse and the person has a trainer and a plan lined up anyway, then fine. People who are new to horses are much more likely to want something they can ride right away. Hence, work with them got get a horse that fits their abilities and riding goals.

Other than that, make sure they either know what they need to know to keep the horse at home or ensure they are going to board the horse someplace reputable.

Ajie,
Just a few thoughts here...
1) many rescues have no access to a trainer, or limited access, or trainers with limited ranges of skill. I have to believe it makes their work far more challenging than what we can do here.
2) we focus on horses with people problems as our primary type of horses we manage here, because we ARE a rescue that has trainers working with our horses. other rescues focus on other types of rehabs because it is what they do best. We take pride in feeling that we do well in figuring out a horse's most likely successful career, then market him/her in that direction.

Many adopters who are not very horse savvy assume that 30 days riding training is enough to make said horse safe for an early intermediate rider to go anywhere and do anything. it's an assumption we have to help them get beyond and move into the right horse with the right career.

We often have an adopter want a particular horse for a particular future career, and the horse is started in that direction but CERTAINLY not far in that direction yet. So, we will make sure their boarding barn and trainer are 'on board' and that we feel this is a plan that is likely to succeed for the horse.

Case in point -- we have a gorgeous 8 year old registered Oldenburger here currently, Blixa. Blixa was never ridden until a few months ago, and at that time, he was ridden by a western pleasure trainer who we don't think ever figured out a tack fit for him. then he was donated here (his owner passed away). Blixa now has about 15 days riding work here, and we are confident he will be a great lower level dressage mount based upon his natural movement and what I am able to assess with him. Obviously, he isn't ready to be handed to a green as grass rider and go showing next week or next month under his new owner...so we need to make sure his adopter is either a skilled rider who can teach him or with a skilled trainer who can keep him on the right track to a great future.

[HorsesinHaiti]

AnneMarie - yes, that's it. Rescues can't do everything, but I know they try when possible to help willing owners learn.

Related question: how many other rescues would like to be able to offer this kind of help to additional at-risk horses and owners, and what kinds of help would they need to do that?

[Ajierene]

Ajie,
Just a few thoughts here...

I understand that my screenname is not my real name, but it should be treated as such. As such, I appreciate not being given a nickname without permission. My screenname and internet moniker is Ajierene.

1) many rescues have no access to a trainer, or limited access, or trainers with limited ranges of skill. I have to believe it makes their work far more challenging than what we can do here.
2) we focus on horses with people problems as our primary type of horses we manage here, because we ARE a rescue that has trainers working with our horses. other rescues focus on other types of rehabs because it is what they do best. We take pride in feeling that we do well in figuring out a horse's most likely successful career, then market him/her in that direction.

These are some of my problems with rescues. So many rescues get into it because they LOVE horses, but have no idea how to care for, train or reschool a horse. They also have no funds and no real plans to gain funds to aid in really helping these horses. A rescue should have access to training or be able to train on the premises. They should operate as a business in the same way a responsible breeder or horse dealer would have access to the ability to train the horse (either on premises or through a contract). The responsible rescue should have the ability to assess a horse to determine if it is beginner safe, needs an intermediate rider, cannot jump or gallop or what have you, before 'adopting' out a horse, so they can go to the appropriate home. Your cases are irrelevant to these necessities of a rescue.

This is not to say a rescue should train a horse 100% before adopting it out, but if a person is looking for a riding horse, then why should that person need access to a trainer and sent the horse to a trainer for 30, 60, 90 days? I surely would not want to - I buy horses to ride them, not have someone else ride them.

On the other hand, I can tell you stories about people buying horses completely not fit for them, including two horses I started for complete novices, a few 'rehab' horses and my own mare. We can trade stories all day. It does not change the fact that I feel any responsible organization working with horse should have their own access to training so they are NOT sending a horse off to someone who 'assume(s) that 30 days riding training is enough to make said horse safe'.

A person shopping with a trainer or mentioning discussions with a trainer and looking at a horse as a prospect, should merely be educated on where the horse is in training and the seller should verify that the horse will be taught under the guidance of a trainer.

This is, apparently completely an aside to the actual question, which apparently relates to after the horse is already in the backyard opposed to before. A lot of education is necessary, but that can be difficult if the person thinks they know what they are doing. Locally, we have an equine studies type class taught through the local community college that goes into general horse husbandry. Getting some classes together and a curriculum may be very helpful. It can also help local horse owners network and find other people that can help out with horse chores.

[philosoraptor]

I am replying on behalf of Equihab, the Maryland-based rescue I am involved with.

Sometimes by the time Equihab hears from them, the horse is already written off as "dangerous". Or after their attempts at selling their un-halter-broke old mare fail, and they "have to be rid of her" by next week. There isn't much we can do to mend the relationship at that point, and sometimes it's best for all parties just to help them find the horse a good new home.

If it's someone who does want to make the effort, we can suggest trainers and/or riding instructors to help. It's really up to them if they want to spend the $500-$1000 (possibly more). Some don't want to spend it. But if you can make them see it's cheaper to pay for training board than to be stuck feeding a horse you can't sell or handle for the next 6 months or year -- the training option may make more financial sense.

Equihab can give them some mentoring and lend them books & videos out of Equihab's big lending library. However, Equihab cannot commit to giving them free full-time training though, as all our trainers are busy helping the horses in Equihab's program. We do know some AWESOME trainers & farriers-who-train who can do wonders with even the most "difficult" horses, and we're always networking & watching other trainers in order to keep growing this list.

Having a poorly behaved horse is not something Animal Control would get involved with in my area.

Equihab would never place a really reactive and/or really untrained horse with a total novice. If they insisted, we'd say sorry. We can recommend some good riding/training barns they can go to, and when they're more proficient then we'll talk. It's not done to be controlling. It's done because we know if it's a bad match the horse will come right back in a month or two.

I've also found that in some people, when they can't get a horse to behave, they lose their temper. Training while furious is when horses get hit at inappropriate times. That's when you get the frustrated horses who don't want to work because they know "going in the ring" = "getting whacked hard randomly". I can't stop someone else from buying a horse and doing it. But if we can educate, be a support system, and offer some well trained horses, hopefully horse & human don't have to have this experience.

[cowgirljenn]

A rescue should operate similar to a reputable breeder or dealer. Sell the horse that fits the person.

We have a fantastic adoption coordinator who works hard to get people the right horses. We do adopt out untrained horses as we don't have enough funds to send every horse to training. But those horses go to people with horse experience or people working with a trainer or instructor.

I edited to add - we DO have a training fund. And we have trainers who give discounts and a few foster homes, myself included, who take on the difficult horses and work with them. We just cannot send -every- horse to training. We pick and choose the horses who need it most or would benefit most, and then work to place the others in homes who can and will work with them.

We also do full refunds of adoption fees if the horse is returned within 30 days, and half the adoption fee back if the horse is returned within a year. And we've let people who return a horse who just didn't work out for them adopt another horse. (Now, if we have someone who adopts and returns, adopts and returns, adopts and return we get to the point where we no longer adopt out to them).

[cowgirljenn]

As usual, the original post is vague in an attempt to be short. I’ll try to clarify. My question is about those cases where someone already has a horse in the ‘backyard’, by surprise or by (bad) choice. Scenario: owner really wants to try, but is clueless.

We don't have the resources to train horses for people like this. Nor do we have room to take in 'owner donated' horses. We stick to law enforcement cases...

However, we have recommended trainers or instructors (when we know someone in the area). We have offered advice on 'easier' problems to fix. And we do put on the Bluebonnet Horse Expo each year and encourage the green owners who are having problems with their horses to attend. (Entry fee is $5 for an entire day of clinics - good deal ).

[cowgirljenn]

Related question: how many other rescues would like to be able to offer this kind of help to additional at-risk horses and owners, and what kinds of help would they need to do that?

We would need more time. More money. More qualified volunteers. More time. And more money.

I would like to offer an advice hotline - kind of like the ASPCA does (or maybe did). Someone who can answer behavior/training/health care issues for owners. BUT I would need much more money and more volunteers or more time in order to be able to do. Right now, we're pretty tapped out.

[HorsesinHaiti]

We would need more time. More money. More qualified volunteers. More time. And more money.

I would like to offer an advice hotline - kind of like the ASPCA does (or maybe did). Someone who can answer behavior/training/health care issues for owners. BUT I would need much more money and more volunteers or more time in order to be able to do. Right now, we're pretty tapped out.

With the month you've had, I can believe you're tapped out! Thanks for all you do, including all your answers here.

[cowgirljenn]

With the month you've had, I can believe you're tapped out! Thanks for all you do, including all your answers here.

I'm glad to be able to answer. The economy didn't hit BEHS last year, but I think it is really hitting hard this year.... our adoption fees are almost nil, we have fewer foster homes and our donations are down. I see programs I would like to put in place (like a help hotline), but I don't have the manpower or dollarpower to make them happen..