Spooky horse - any experience with Prozac?

Older Andalusian/TB X, lower level dressage, have had 1 year. Insecure, very spooky when working alone, much prefers company, but often it's just us. Have tried ulcergard, all the magnesium supplements, now on an herbal calmer - nothing really works. Vet recently suggested trying Prozac. Any experience out there?

[woodrwo]

Wow. Did not know they gave it to horses! We have a young Cairn Terrier that was only 6 months old when we lost two of our other dogs. We think it made her OCD. She obsessively chases shadows. To the point that she never pays any attention to us. Vet recommended Prozac. And it has helped her tremendously.
And it is nice to know we have a stash for the me when I compete (hee, hee)!

We never thought we would use a drug like that. But if it works to take their anxiety away. And is not harmful long-term, why not.

Good luck.

[Lieslot]

Waw, surprised to hear that suggested for horses. How about the side effects in horses??

Rather then inhibiting serotinin re-uptake, why not try a supplement to increase the production of serotonin with less change of side effects, like 5-HTP or L-tryptophane. Another to try could be SAM-e. I believe Figurola Labs has a product that contains both 5-HTP & SAM-e.

Whilst I have a horse that can be a serious problem if not dangerous on the trails, not sure I'd go the route of Prozac, are there any studies out of Prozac used on horses?

Why not give Fluphenazine (Prolixin), a long acting anti-psyhotic, at least there are some studies about the drug used in horses and documented side effects.
Did your vet specifically say Prozac, or did he say 'like prozac', coz I've heard people referring to Prolixin saying "similar to Prozac in humans"

[Lieslot]

Seem it 'is' used in horses, found this article in how to deal with grieving horses :
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/hor...es-grieve.aspx

For some horses, medical management of depression is needed, especially for horses that show such severe grief that they are in danger of colic, anemia, dehydration, or other metabolic concerns that are made worse by depression. The first choice for treatment is diazepam (Valium), which can reduce anxiety and stimulate appetite. This drug produces the quick effect that is needed in these cases. Fluoxetine hydrochloride (Prozac) is used for long-term maintenance. This combination of Valium followed by Prozac has been quite helpful in reducing the effects of grief in horses. Methylphenidate (Ritalin) also has been tried, but the results are not as rewarding.

Once horses return to more normal activity patterns, the dose of Prozac can be gradually reduced and eventually discontinued.

[hoopoe]

what is the horses current diet? training and workout schedule?

It sounds like his issue is chronic, as you have tried several additives.

do you work with a trainer? Does the horse act up when they ride?

There are many possible issues including the fact that the horse may be training you to back off the demand when he acts up.


I would consider a second opinon over resorting to chronic drugs. this is an older horse, a solid eye exam and joint health exam ( dont wait for limping) as well as a good saddler and dental consideration.

[Brooke]

Had a horse that was an emotional wreck when I got him. Ulcers, scared of EVERYTHING, danced in place in the cross ties, etc. etc. Spooked EVERY single time I went by one end of the ring. Every time. Would spin and run backwards when he didn't want to go somewhere. Took me backwards up and down the bank by the ring many times, ran me backwards through the trees. I put him on Fluphenazine and maybe it took two weeks, but he was a different horse. He relaxed, was able to learn, actually was brave enough (for the first time) to nibble on my arm as I rubbed him. One shot lasts for several months. As with any drug there can be side effects, but it sure worked for him.

[Chall]

Have the vet check his vision.

[MelantheLLC]

SSRI's will take some time (a couple of weeks, as above) and do not have an immediate effect. They are changing the number of serotonin receptors in the brain, not sedating. So they won't do a thing for you just before a show!

It can take several months to have the full effect. Think of it like building muscle--the body has to rebuild itself and that takes it some time. Plus it is a feedback system, so the brain has to find an equilibrium.

Fear is THE strongest pathway in the horse's brain. Research has shown that a fear reaction in horses is never forgotten, only "obscured." This obviously has evolutionary advantage to the wild horse--once you were frightened by a mountain lion at that rock, you are NEVER going to go near that rock again without being on high alert and ready to run on an instant, even if the very best grass grows under it. Your life literally depends on that level of fear.

So it's much much harder to retrain the brain of a horse that has developed a fear reaction to a specific thing. Once they have developed a wider fear of many things, you are really fighting biology. A long, slow program of de-sensitization will "work" but that fear reaction remains underneath and never goes away.

Andrew McLean describes it as a path in a jungle--once the path is made, it may become overgrown but the mark of it is always there and easily recovered.

I can see that for a horse with so much fear that he can never relax, it could be considered humane to give an SSRI, along with a de-sensitization program during the treatment, so that his brain can learn that he doesn't have to feel that fear at such a painful level.

I think a de-sensitization program would be crucial to allow the horse to be able to discontinue the SSRI eventually. This is done for highly anxious dogs, too.

[MelantheLLC]

Also, I'd like to add that Andrew McLean has a lot of excellent research and articles on how horses learn (including how they learn fear.)

http://www.aebc.com.au/home

He was an Aussie eventer (this is not NH) and researcher. He makes the point that fear comes from uncertainty. Once the horse becomes certain that what it does will have a certain outcome, the fear recedes.

So giving him a very clear program of very basic training, and taking very small steps, could be extremely helpful. Not ever confronting him with a situation he can't cope with (difficult, of course), but moving in very very small increments.

For desensitizing to things like grooming, you might want to investigate food rewards and clicker training. My horse was terrified of the vacuum. I used the clicker and small carrot pieces, and now every time we go past the vacuum, he looks at it longingly, hoping I'll ask him to touch it with his nose. It was a simple, quick process, but requires understanding clicker training. It's NOT just luring with food, there is a very specific communication and timing between you and the horse.

[findeight]

I know we all want to give them a pill, massage, shot or something to fix behavioral issues but...some times the answer is more/better/smarter work.

We know what the vet says (and he really does not know what or if anything really is wrong), what does your trainer say?

Just that you have only had this one a year, he may have been very accustomed to working in a group and this is basic horse behavior-safety in numbers and stay with the herd.

Not sure going after it with pharmaceuticals, herbals or meds is the best appraoach for a very basic part of horse behavior. Or if it will do anything except send him into la la land and still leave you with the same problem when he comes off of it.

I've had mine for 10 years now. Very good show horse. Last week she put blisters on both hands when I worked her alone outside and some other horses were calling out in the pastures...she was an absolute idiot. I went in and got gloves, more bridle and worked anyway (miserable ride I might add, no fun at all). I need to ride more outside and alone, something I have neglected for some time. No pills can really fix that little hole in her manners and training-but I can. And will.

OP might want to have somebody else work that horse by itself a few times, get started on schooling that out more-teach him to concentrate on the rider's aids, not running for his herd or being afraid because he is alone.

[CatOnLap]

interesting. Prozac helped my tailbiting cat and stopped the behavior permanently, in 6 months of treatment, but that is another OCD equivalent. I had heard about it for "grieving" horses, but never for spookiness.