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Going over to the dark (gaited) side :) question about gaits

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  • Going over to the dark (gaited) side :) question about gaits

    Hi all,

    I am being offered a spotted saddle horse and I had a question about gaits. I rode him yesterday and he does seem to have 4 or maybe 5 gaits. Definitely experienced a walk, a rack, trot, a fabulous canter and maybe something else, a running walk?. This is my first foray into gaited horses and the question I have for you racking folks is how do I cue for a trot? I was having some success with giving him a half halt and then just posting instead of sitting but I am seriously deficient in my SSH knowledge. Any ideas out there? I'd like to have more trot and less rack in the long run but being able to ask for either gait would be smashing. His name is Sonny, he's black and white, 18 years old and 14.2. Cute as a button! Thanks in advance!
    glimmerling


    Member Appaloosa lovers clique

  • #2
    [QUOTE]
    Originally posted by glimmerling View Post
    Hi all,

    This is my first foray into gaited horses and the question I have for you racking folks is how do I cue for a trot?
    you don't...that's like asking "how do I get my Hanoverian to runningwalk"...I could tell you how and it can be done but it's not pretty...

    Tamara in TN
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

    Comment


    • #3
      OK, run or runwalk to amazon and get a copy of Easy Gaited Horses by Lee Ziegler. This is a wonderful book that will teach you how to modify, identify, and elicit all the gaits your horse can produce. Gaited horses have to carry themselves in a certain way in order to rack--Ms Ziegler calls this the essential tension. A racking horse will have its neck and head elevated, and sort of set its neck and shoulders in a certain way, and hollow the back slightly. The rider can help or cue the horse to rack by lifting on the reins and sitting heavier in the saddle--this is a less exaggerated version of the weird way Big Lick riders sit.

      A horse that is trotting holds his head, neck and back differently. The rider can cue the trot by holding hands low, weight more forward. I have a racking mare that has roughly nine identifiable gaits and several that defy description. After four years she is FINALLY trotting under saddle for me--she trots in the pasture fairly often but probably had always been discouraged from trotting by her previous people and whoever broke her to ride.

      I am in GA, too. If you're not a zillion miles away, come ride with us!

      Comment


      • #4
        Respectfully disagree with Tamara that its like asking a hanoverian to runwalk. If they CAN trot (and many can, although some cannot) its good for their backs to actually use the trot and not go hollow all the time. Keeps them from becoming prematurely unsound due to spinal issues.

        Comment


        • #5
          In order for a horse to trot it has keep its head down (meaning not in the clouds) and round its back. Working the horse over rails on the ground will help this as the horse will look down to keep from tripping over the rails (at least that's the theory). And the horse will probably choose to trot uphill, so I would probably do that often if you have any inclines or hills available. I'd also sit as still as possible when asking for the trot.

          To get the horse to rack one needs to "pick up the horse's head and shake it" by using a snaffle.

          What kind of bit do they use on this little thing?

          And what makes you think going gaited is going over to the dark side? We're well rounded horse people on this board!
          "Don't blame Hogg or the other teens. The adults are supposed to know better. If only we could find any." ~Tom Nichols, professor of national security affairs at the Naval War College~

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jeano View Post
            Respectfully disagree with Tamara that its like asking a hanoverian to runwalk. If they CAN trot (and many can, although some cannot) its good for their backs to actually use the trot and not go hollow all the time. Keeps them from becoming prematurely unsound due to spinal issues.

            sure you can, and Lee and I had many conversations about it in the old days...but we also agreed, that people who did not know how to get one to trot, should not fiddle with it as they only caused more trouble for the animal thru their ignorance....a SSH was bred to gait...God gave them that lick to hit...in my mind it's as wrong to an 18 yo mare as starting a show jumping career...why on earth ??

            Tamara in TN
            Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
            I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cherry View Post
              I

              To get the horse to rack one needs to "pick up the horse's head and shake it" by using a snaffle.
              ??? what? a rack is a simple to ask for in a natural moving horse as holding him between your legs and hands at the proper speed...your hands are in the normal place and it is done in snaffles or swept back curbs or bosals...it's all the same

              Tamara in TN
              Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
              I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

              Comment


              • #8
                I grew up raising, showing, and training Spotted Saddle Horses. The best way to get a horse to gait is to push them into your hands. Most ssh are going to be naturally gaited so the most you will have to do is properly collect them so that they are smooth. (sorry it's not very descriptive. I am better at doing than explaining) If they are bred to be in the show ring and are very pacey then you will have to do more work than this to smooth them out. I would recommend finding a gaited horse trainer in your area to give you a couple of lessons. I have found that there are some people that never succeed with making their horse gait. My old BO could very rarely make her horse gait. She always blamed it on growing up hunt seat. Good luck to you and welcome to the dark side. (even though I am looking at going over to the "dark side" with buying a trotting horse in the near future!)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Oh...also go visit gaitedhorsesenseonline dot com

                  They are very good at offering advice and how toos!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hmm I think I would be bummed if I got a gaited horse and found out he prefers to trot! My dream gaited horse is one that never slips into a trot!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Actually, the OP is asking how to make the horse trot when she wants it to....not how to make it gait. And for what its worth (not much, I'm sure) I am after four years with gaited horses only slowly getting the hang of asking for a gait and getting it when I ask....Sadie can rack a hole in the wind but is more apt to do so on HER TERMS and on her timetable rather than mine. And she's lazy. The runwalk ALWAYS comes out nicely when we are pointed for home. The default gait uphill is usually a canter, the downhill something lateral. When she's crabby or just getting around to the point where she's invested in the ride she will amble, amble, amble and pace until she's over herself.

                      She's a fun ride with almost any gait. This is what I love about her--the trot is soft and smooth. The flat walk is comfortable. The runwalk covers the ground. The saddle rack is nice, the speedrack is exciting, the pace is darned sittable, the amble aint bad, the canter is flat and smooth, the wickywack mixed gait where she's cantering with one end and doing something else with the other always makes me laugh. The only gait she has that I hate is her dogwalk, and its just plain irritating. And she can gallop waaay to fast for me to feel safe. So we dont do that one too much.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I 100% agree with Tamara- he's 18 and if he's locked into a nice set of gaits, leave him alone.

                        We have a smashing little SSH at home with a drop dead gorgeous trot at liberty...but I'll never mess with him and ask him to take it on cue- his running walk is so smooth and flowing and thrilling, I'm not about to confuse that trail horse's mind by looking to install a trot cue. Aint. No. Way. Nope. Nope. Nope. Now he is learning to carry himself more properly in terms of lifting the base of his neck, rounding up a little in medium walk and flat walk as I want him to rebalance and slow down his canter....but no, no way I'm remotely going to install a cue for trot. Those I've seen that have been taught it- it's not pretty.

                        As for the horse in question: if his head is nodding up and down, straight up and straight down, with NO left to right at all...he's either flat walking or going up a notch into a running walk - sounds like a completely rhythmic, even 1234 1234 1234. If his head is STEADY, NO up and down and no side to side....and he's rolling along pretty quick and smooth 1234 1234 1234 ...he's racking.
                        Last edited by katarine; May. 24, 2010, 10:25 AM. Reason: I can't count :)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          man, why would you want to trot a gaited horse, thats they beauty of them! I rode a TWH once and would love to have one in my imaginary barn (which btw is also filled with a Clydesdale and a ISH, to name a few LOL). Never would have wanted to install a trot when I could just run walk everywhere!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ok...I missed her question of getting the trot. I am able to make my ssh trot by lowering my hands and basically getting him more on the forehand. Once I have him trotting, I ask him to get balanced again. Usually he breaks back to a gait at that point but we are working on getting the trot long and low. The first few times I basically just gave him his head and pushed him until he broke. It definitely wasn't pretty and still not wonderful. I also say trot everytime I ask for it. Maybe one of these days I can just say the word and he will pick it up. That is probably wishful thinking but you never now. It is coming along slow but I can say his topline is starting to look wonderful! I also only will trot him in a snaffle. He is expected to only gait in his wonder bit. This is the only horse out of all my ssh that I have asked to trot on purpose. It was constantly drilled into my head that you DO NOT let a horse trot under any circumstances. I am finally realizing that it is very beneficial to them. My retired show mare could definitely use some trotting to help build up her topline and if I ever get moved back close to my family then she is going experience the trot.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Butt....

                              trotting can be hollow and on the forehand. That won't fix anything.

                              A working walk can be done in a rounded posture or 'frame'- ask them to take hills in this posture and that's a bonus.

                              Walking, whoaing, and backing up properly- in the good posture of a lifted back, lifted base of the neck, etc..all contribute to a fabulous topline.

                              I guess I can't figure out how trotting is magically better than GOOD quality working and flat walking with at least a neutral back, if not slightly lifted back.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Being a former lifelong trotter, I have crossed over to the dark side. I have a Rocky Mt horse. My horse is now 4 years old, been broke since about 3.

                                Since *I* didn't know any better I bought a 1.5 yr old filly. <BG> Ok, fast fast forward. I broke her myself, easy, and I have certified her in the breed. This is my second season/summer riding her. What an easy sweet breed too.

                                I still ride in my solstice, english saddle. It is a wide width. I am not a novice to trails. I have endurance ridden, and have crossed over now since I broke her. Welcome to the gaited side. It is fun to learn something new.

                                So I had to figure out how to get her to gait. It is kinda like dressage. A little hand, a little leg, go a little fast no go a little slower. When your butt bounces, too fast, slow down. When you feel in your BUTT and your seat go quiet THAT is the optimum gait for that individual gaited horse. They need a little bit of collection to gait. Some need alot. Some need nothing. Depends on the individual and the breed and what you like in your butt/seat.

                                My suggestion is to ride more than one horse. Each horse is different in their gait, and it does vary within the breed and vary amongst breeds.

                                To get my horse to gait in the beginning, lots of walking, some collection. Then ask for them to speed up and maintain a bit of collection. Hold it for just a little bit, tell them gooooooood.

                                How well the horse gaits is totally subjective. It depends on your butt experience. Try many many horses and different breeds, do not get the first one you ride. You wouldn't do that in a non-gaited horse now would you? Do your homework. Find a breed you like with regards to characteristics. Sorry, but SSH can have a tendency to be hot/spicey. Be aware of health issues within each breed. Most gaited horses are wide shouldered, so make sure you have your saddle to fit, just like a non-gaited horse.

                                My RM filly gaits NICE and dreamily wonderful and soft at 4.5-5.6 mph. Yeah she can go faster. Much. But since she is young and I don't want her to speed up too much, I keep her right about there. Also they do have to have time to build their gaiting muscles, just like non-trotters. My butt is quiet in the saddle, there is a little forward back but NO up and down. If she gets bouncey I bounce hard on her back, and she knows her gait is not correct for my butt. She is SUPER natural on the trails. She is very tractible. She has a QH temp, pay attention like an arab on trails, but still QH quiet temp, and gaited! She is black. Very sweet, and very kind, very sensible, very personable, not a dead head. These are characteristics of the Rocky breed. She really takes good care of herself on the trails too.

                                She can canter, but why? I want 100% gait all the time, and yes they gait at the walk. Find the right individual. If I got on the horse you looked at I may have a different opinion on his gaiting tactics. I made a good effort to ride lots of different breeds, get really educated. Friends have them and I went to look at them. You will know when it is just right. You will go ahhhhhhhhhhh.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  A well bred horse, strong and fit, will perform its intermediate gait (trot or non-trot) without a whole lot of muss and fuss. But delete any of those pre-conditions and you can have some "interesting times."

                                  Demand that the intermediate gait fit an arbitrary form and you can cause damage to the horse (and maybe the rider).

                                  For most soft-gaited horses if you sit in the middle and ride classically you'll get a decent "road gait." This may not win any blue ribbons, but is one that the horse can maintain for an extended period. Once you try and "fit" the horse into some "template" then you can start to have problems. If you're just "nudging" the horse a little bit then likely any difficulties will be minimal. But if you start really pushing to have the horse do that which it is not equipped to do by conformation and way of going then you can cause long term injury.

                                  Tamara and I have a modest disagreement on teaching the soft gaited horse to trot. IMO the trot can be used effectively in a few circumstances. The one I've seen most is using the trot to help a very lateral horse to effectively canter. But it's not something that the average horse owner is going to want to try, as it takes a very knowledgeable hand to do it without injuring either the horse or human.

                                  Or, as the Mythbusters might put it, "Don't try this as home; it's only for experts."

                                  I would stongly disagree that the canter/lope/gallop has no place in the training of the soft gaited horse. The more lateral the soft gait the more demanding it is on the horse (even if easier on the rider). A more diagonal gait is easier on the horse (but a bit tougher on the rider). Lee Ziegler advocated the "mixing" of gaits. This allowed the horse to use all its various muscle groups and would go a long way towards preventing back soreness. This latter item is particularly problematical in the very laterally gaited horse where it must travel ventroflexed to hold its gait (the Racking Horse is a good example of this). Many soft gaited horses have very comfortable canters and can really cover ground.

                                  A few years back I got a reminder of this. I was part of a "mobility test" and our group of four riders had to cover about seven miles, then perform a saber charge against a simulated enemy encampment. The rules said that the course was to be ridden at the trot, no canter allowed. The leader of our group set a demanding pace in a "high trot" (8-9 mph). This was just too much for my mare, who could not keep up in gait. So I let her perform a slow lope (and waited to get "yelled at" by our group monitor). He noted my difficulty and said nothing. After the charge we got together and my mare was MUCH less fatigued and sweated than the other three horses (all of which were fit for this exercise). The monitor said he was impressed that at the slower gaits we moved easily and the canter was smooth and easy. He then tried her out and I had to work to get her back!!!!!

                                  If you want a guideline, try the Clock System (used by the British Cavalry). Begin at time 00 and ride for 40 min. Half that time is at the intermediate gait, 2-3 min. at the canter, and the rest at the "dog walk." Dismount and walk the horse for 10 min. Then rest for 10 min. (grazing is OK if available). The mount up at 00 and do it again. Your horse will last a long time, your knees will thank you for the break, and you'll have fewer sore back issues.

                                  So ride correctly (balanced in the center of the horse) and see what it wants to do. Having somebody video you doing this is a Very Good Idea (mostly to verify that you're in the center and riding correctly).

                                  G.
                                  Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Wow, I had no idea this would get so many responses and so much discusson! A few more bits of info, he was given to me by friends in serious financial straits so that is why I have him. I plan on keeping him as he's a sweet boy with no issues and a generous heart. As to the gaits, when I ask him to speed up from a walk (he has a wonderful four beat walk), he does whatever gait comes to his mind. I have no ability to ask for a rack, a trot, a canter and I did get what I think is a running walk today. He just does what he does. I don't think he's had alot of formal training and his owner before the current ones was an ancient guy who used to trail ride him. I don't think anyone's ever asked him to do anything specific if you know what I mean.

                                    So, no, I don't want to mess up his gaits and, though it does seem to be heresy , I do like trotting, hence why i asked about that. Really, I'd just to ask for and receive a trot or a rack or a canter. I can do canter cues, it's the rack versus trot that confuses me. But, if ya'll are saying that there is no real cue for one versus the other, then I'll just teach him a canter cue and let him rack/trot/tolt/whatever he wants to do when I ask not walk or not canter.


                                    Thanks again for all the information, wow, I have alot to think about. And I thought dressage was hard ....
                                    glimmerling


                                    Member Appaloosa lovers clique

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      For the Icelandics that I have ridden, many do trot as well as walk, tolt, canter and if 5 gaited like my mare, pace.The cue for trot is generally to sit in a more forward seat and give some rein so they can stretch down. For tolt (rack) one rolls a bit back onto seatbones (but no chair seat!) and with a bit more collection (but not hauling the head up!). Took me a while to figure out the gears on my 5 gaited mare. For flying pace, one starts out in canter in a more forward seat and then sits back. That lights the pace afterburners! I think a few times I was doing all 5 gaits simultaneously until I kind of got the hang of it, LOL, but all her gaits are smooth. My younger gelding is 4 gaited, doesn't have flying pace. But it is good to have trot. Tolt is in between trot and pace, so it is useful to help move away from pace.
                                      Icelandics - Tolt-ally wonderful!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Buy the Easy Gaited Horses book. It's not rocket science, but it's for dang sure a little different training your brain to feel and hear and see the various soft or intermediate gaits.

                                        PS I worked on my SSH's canter tonight. Boy he's going to be nice.

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