• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

So one of the lesson horses came at me really aggressively today...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    Lesgarcons, if you have any leeway in handling the horses at times other than in lessons, AND you want to try do do something positive for this poor horse, I'd take a look at clicker work with this guy.

    Clicker work will get him focusing on you in a positive way without you becoming a Pez dispenser for carrots and causing a different problem for beginner students. If you have the time, patience, and desire you might also be able to fix the crop issue - he can learn to see them as the indicator of GOOD things, not pain.

    Look into clicker work, if you aren't familiar with it. It's fun and can be amazingly effective in turning off bad behavior.

    If this horse really is good at his job with students up there then he may be worth the quirks. Truly excellent schoolies are hard to find, and worth their weight in gold. As a kid I remember learning on a mare named Rosie, she was my favorite to ride, even though we weren't allowed around her AT ALL on the ground. We had to go stand on the mounting block and wait for her to be brought to us, and we were not to get off and do up stirrups etc until an adult was there to hold her head. She too had been abused at some point, and though she was an excellent babysitter lesson horse (she'd stop or slow down if she felt you losing your balance, and I watched her shove a kid back in the saddle by lifting her neck - she could very easily have dropped her neck and the kid!) she still had some buttons that you didn't want to push, and it was short people mostly that set her off.

    But she was so kind when you were up there, absolutely forgiving of beginner's mistakes, would take a treat gently, being so so careful on rail rides when we went down hills and through mud. She was a gem, despite her situational fear-aggression.

    Comment


    • #42
      Thomas, this has to be one of the odder comments you've made, the 'If so then I've really got to say that I'm seriously wondering about a Riding Instructor that wants to cry and doesn't know how to quickly get out of the way of a horse coming towards her.... whether it's backwards or forwards! Didn't your training include such as safety awareness and positioning? '.

      Hasn't your own experience taught you yet, horses move faster than people, even backwards!? Horses have longer legs than most humans, plus they move with all 4 of them, not the humans' measly two, in case you had not noticed. That propels them faster in any direction than humans.
      Jeanie
      RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

      Comment


      • #43
        Sorry, I've got to agree. If an aggressive horse makes you cry like a nervous beginner, you have no business teaching people about horses. You need to be confident and understand horses. If my trainer started crying because my horse was being naughty... let's just say I would be out of there in seconds.

        I'm certainly no trainer, but I've had horses try to kick, bite and run me down. Heck, I've been knocked on my ass plenty of times. I sure as hell didn't make me cry and nervously edge away.


        I mean, crying because the horse kicked you and you were in pain is one thing, but crying because he threatened you? My goodness, if you want to work with horses, grow a pair! You will get kicked. You will get bitten. You most certainlty will get threatened. Buck up and learn to handle yourself, or find a job better suited to you. I'm not saying stand in the middle and get hit, but don't cry about it.
        .

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by sdlbredfan View Post
          Thomas, this has to be one of the odder comments you've made, the 'If so then I've really got to say that I'm seriously wondering about a Riding Instructor that wants to cry and doesn't know how to quickly get out of the way of a horse coming towards her.... whether it's backwards or forwards! Didn't your training include such as safety awareness and positioning? '.
          Don't tax yourself thinking about it too much but picture this. A Riding Instructor in the middle not knowing what to do, perhaps a jibbering mess and thinking about crying and just because a horse backed up. Yep.... that really inspires confidence and a sense that they know what they're doing and how to position when a horse behaves like a bad mannered puke..... NOT!!!

          Hasn't your own experience taught you yet, horses move faster than people, even backwards!? Horses have longer legs than most humans, plus they move with all 4 of them, not the humans' measly two, in case you had not noticed. That propels them faster in any direction than humans.
          My experience taught me to watch out and carefully observe a horse's body language and get out of the way quickly.

          I'm the same way with people. I go out of my way not to try to tangle with those intent on terminal stupidity and inane comments and my preference is not to approach a fool from any side.
          Last edited by Thomas_1; May. 23, 2010, 07:04 PM.

          Comment


          • #45
            Thomas, I recommend you read the original post again, for comprehension. This was not a mild small amount of backing. From the description it seemed to me that the horse was backing up rapidly. We all can assume the OP was waving arms at horse or whatever (remember, this is a horse that will freak if a whip is seen), so it must have been a lot more dramatic and scary than you are realizing. The part you apparently missed is the "I had a lesson horse repeatedly turn his rear to me and basically run backwards towards me today".
            Jeanie
            RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #46
              Whoa, whoa, whoa. I didn't cry. I said, "I am not a crier, and I nearly cried." Both from the shock of having a horse like this in my lessons and not being told about it, and from embarassment at what my adult students must have been thinking about our barn.

              I got out of the way of the horse immediately. I told the rider exactly how to get the horse back on the rail, each time it happened. It happened once when she let the horse stray into the middle. One time her foot had slipped out of the western stirrup and she couldn't get it back in without my help, so I avoided the back end tearing towards me, had her hold him in place, and was able to get her foot back in. The third time was when she was passing another horse to the inside and he suddenly came at me. EACH time I calmly told the rider how to get the horse back on the rail, acting like it was no big deal. Sure, inside I wanted to cry, but I didn't let anything show on the outside.

              I am so disappointed this thread has turned into a big bash-fest of me based on one poster who didn't read well enough saying, "If this was so bad that you cried...".

              Comment


              • #47
                I am saddened too, referring to your last section of post above. Looking on the bright side, at least now you know who the truly intelligent and helpful people are!
                Jeanie
                RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Some peoples reaction to a visceral shock is to cry. Nothing wrong or bad about that, it just is what it is. Lots of people remain perfectly calm and in control during any incident and then cry afterwards. Normal.
                  "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                  ---
                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    During your lessons periodically instruct the rider of the horse to ride the horse up to you when you are not in the middle of the ring (maybe while you are on the fence, or on the other side of a fence or jump), and have the horse halt, and you give him a pat on the face/neck, and then you walk away and the rider continues with the lesson. Have the rider follow you around a pattern/course. Try to stay in front of him or in a position where he never believes you are chasing him or about to come up and chase/hit him.

                    Have the rider ride in a straight line up to you in the middle of the ring, you give the horse a treat or a scratch on the nose, and have the rider back the horse up 5 or 6 steps before turning and continuing.


                    When I was just starting out (as a rider) there was a horse in our lesson program who would kick other horses. All other riders were instructed to keep well away. He was used in the program for several years and he was such a great horse for the riders; we just had to work around his quirk.
                    Jigga:
                    Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      I'm about to start a train wreck.... Without even trying

                      OK. I have come across this before in various guises but all displaying aggressive behaviour when the horse has a beginner rider on board horses I have known do this have not displayed this behaviour with more competent jockeys.

                      It's almost like the horse is saying 'oh god, I've got some crazy person on me.. I am going to have to take charge. I don't want to, but if I don't no-one will.' This 'taking charge' in all the times I've seen it (three) has involved creating a definite no-go zone around him/her - either preventing people or horses coming anywhere near - and yes, that includes running backwards.

                      I absolutely would not give treats. I can see the logic but I also think it will promote aggressive behaviour in this type of horse.

                      What would I do? Well, one thing that worked well on one horse (you ready for the trainwreck? Got your popcorn?) was a Parelli-type person.

                      I would take the horse out of beginner lessons (or any lessons if he acts this way with all riders), but this is a personal choice; I understand if your BO doesn't want to. I would personally - to avoid either legal action or instructors acting nervously around the horse and re-inforcing the behaviour. But that's just me.

                      Find out if he longes OK (without a whip), does he long rein? How does he respond to the person in charge then, with no rider?

                      I would work with him through the join-up process (but in your case, I'd find someone with a little more confidence to do this), reinforce that the person in the centre of the ring is friend, not foe. Really, I'm not a Parelli devotee but I think there is an exercise that they use that involves squeezing the horse through narrow spaces? This I think is useful, because the behaviour I have seen like this really stemmed initially not so much from abuse, but from wanting a huge amount of personal space around to kind of build in a contingency for the jack-ass rider on top. This was then treated badly by the trainer and abuse became the main 'cause'.

                      After join-up and whatever the squeezing exercise is then move on to long reining, then longing, then longing with an experienced rider, then with a less competent rider, then in the full size ring without the rest of a class, then with a couple of others, then back into the full lesson programme.

                      Good luck, it'll be interesting to hear how you get on.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        I don't know about everyone else but I was in my early 20's once. Yep it's true.
                        There are very few people at this age that know everything about anything as that takes experience and time. The only way to get experience is to do something. So yes at 40 this young lady will have much more experience and something like this will not be an issue.
                        I think it is an obvious observation to point out that a young person lacks experience, doesn't mean they should not keep trying.
                        Not every instructor teaches GP riding, snot nosed kids need help too.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Wow! After seeing so many things happen with and reactions to ill behaved horses in my 38 (almost 39) years, I must say I am floored to know that there are all these know it all, perfect horse trainers on this board who never got even the slightest bit emotional after a tense or hard day.

                          That is how many of you come across in this thread. And I don't believe one arrogant word!

                          OP--I hope you get this mess straightened out, regardless of the situation, a horse that is aggressive in any way needs proper handling and discipline. I hope you can get your boss on board in fixing the problem.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by twotrudoc View Post
                            Wow! After seeing so many things happen with and reactions to ill behaved horses in my 38 (almost 39) years, I must say I am floored to know that there are all these know it all, perfect horse trainers on this board who never got even the slightest bit emotional after a tense or hard day.

                            That is how many of you come across in this thread. And I don't believe one arrogant word!
                            .
                            I haven't - so far - commented on the OP's reaction. I didn't think it would be helpful to her situation.

                            But now, I feel compelled to do so.

                            Crying? Really? In horses?

                            I know, I know, the OP said she only felt like crying. But still.

                            I can't imagine how anyone perceives this as normal behavior for a horsewoman. Let alone an instructor. The only time I've ever come close to crying anywhere near a horse was the day I discovered little pAin't Misbehavin' (my first horse) was unrideablely lame. For life. On that occasion, I will admit - I bit my lip and looked away.

                            There is no crying in horses. Sheesh. How in the world is that arrogant? I can't imagine how anyone thinks crying has any place near horses. At least, not once one attains the lofty age of - oh, I don't know - twelve?

                            Anyway, OP, is there someone near who could help you learn to work with difficult horses? I think, if you intend to continue your career in horses, that you might want to consider looking around for that sort of training.
                            I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by redears View Post
                              Convince one of the students to buy him!

                              Really, my first horse came in as a new schoolie in the lesson program I was in. He had all kinds of odd issues about people with whips, people with pitchforks, anything really (he had to wear his halter in his stall because if you walked in his stall with a halter, the butt would come around and fast, and he was a 16hh 1500lb quarter horse... not fun.
                              My first horse came from a lesson program where he had some real aggression problems. He would trap kids in the back of his stall and threaten them. Under saddle he decided that he'd stand in the middle of the ring and not move. If you hit him with a crop he'd kick out but stand still.

                              Once he was a single rider horse, he completely mellowed out and became a delightful and affectionate horse. He either didn't like kids or he didn't like having a lot of different riders.
                              Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                              EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Paint --- about your opinion of "no crying in horses", my opinion is this --
                                I don't believe you.


                                You are welcome to try and broadcast yourself as a super tough no emotion person though

                                I have seen a lot of people cry around horses, from my old boss who is a GP rider to a 14 yr old two weeks ago at a show, and everything/one in between.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  I've left the barn in tears before. And I'm 50 something. Does that mean I should quit horses? Hell, I've left work in tears before and I'd LOVE to quit work. Horses not so much.

                                  Meh.

                                  OP I hope your employer works something out with this horse and tells you ahead of time about "quirks", ALL of them, next time.
                                  Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                                  Incredible Invisible

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by ReSomething View Post
                                    I've left the barn in tears before. And I'm 50 something. Does that mean I should quit horses? Hell, I've left work in tears before and I'd LOVE to quit work. Horses not so much.

                                    Meh.

                                    OP I hope your employer works something out with this horse and tells you ahead of time about "quirks", ALL of them, next time.
                                    This is so well written and true, I wish I had thought of it. Thanks ReSomething, for saying this.
                                    Jeanie
                                    RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      I think the treats might work for this immediate problem but it might cause a plethora of additonal problems.

                                      I would go with the clicker training so he learns that good behavior is rewarded with the "click".

                                      You can even have him doing things close to you and eventually figure out that being near you does not equal a bad experience.

                                      The problem with this is
                                      1. You're asking beginners to help with this problem by keeping the horse away from you, and you're not able to approach them if they need help

                                      2. You may want to help this horse, but what about the other instructors using him in lessons??? Is he going to learn that you're good, but the rest are bad? Because so far, he thinks you're all bad!

                                      The biggest thing I see is, keep the beginners off of him until this issue can be resolved, and two, you need to speak with all the other trainers and see how they feel about his situation. If you can all agree on a training method then great!

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        No tears in horses? Not around here, the barn I boarded as a kid had a bad week once and my instructor said "we should change the name of the farm to Heartbreak Acres" (after my horse was euthanized, an older horse owner found out she had terminal cancer, another rider got a bad concussion off a nice horse). She was in her 50s or so at that time probably, I was 16, we cried together.

                                        Heck, the way my horses look in the sunshine sometimes makes me well up in tears, because I think they are beautiful and perfect.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          So sorry that happened to you. And most of us, in that situation would have been afraid too, even if they won't admit it. No need to apologize for some (almost) tears. Sometimes they come as a response to stress.
                                          Sadly, the horse is not safe and needs help. Its not your job to fix him or risk your life doing so. If your boss doesn't understand this find a new job. Your life is more valuable than this horses life. Nothing matters except your safety and the students safety. There are many barns that would not tolerate this from any lesson horse.
                                          And don't let anyones comments get to you. Caring about safety is a great asset to any GOOD employer and they would be lucky to have you.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X