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In Need Of CoTH Support, My Sister Bought- Vanners!

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  • Original Poster
    #41
    Originally posted by danceronice View Post
    Aw, be nice. She's going to lose money, but they seem to be quite sweet overall. Lucky's sharing a pasture with one and while I'm glad I'm not the one grooming that hair, he seems like a nice pony. Also short. Not that I don't love Lucky but there are days when sometimes I'd like to think I'd eventually be able to mount from the ground (not gonna happen on a 16-and-change TB.)
    I am really being nice, and supportive, I do find them lovley, and they are a good match for her in all honestly. But, they are what they are.
    Sad to say she was sold a bill of goods about how much money someone with her very limited experiece is going to make. She did not even buy from one of the more well know breeders, the colt I just found out is a cross . It is sad that some people just will take advantage of an uneducated equine consumer.

    I am not at all angry with my sister in anyway. I am how ever dissapointed that I feel she was taken for a good deal of money, for a story, more or less.



    Originally posted by Thomas_1 View Post
    I'm wondering exactly what you told your sister when she told you she'd bought 2 coloured cobs.

    And please don't mistake me for someone who thinks a Vanner is a breed.

    I well know it isn't.

    But you do need to know that you can get some fantastic coloured cobs. With great conformation and true to purpose and type and who do a great job as an all purpose riding and/or driving horse.

    They can also make a lot of money.

    Your sister might just think you're envious and that it's got nothing at all to do with you and she may just have a point.
    Interesting post Thomas, I guess now would be a good time to tell you, that when she was referring to what the Brittish call what, what. It was in answer to your post about Vanners, that I used as an example of what many horse people think of the " breed".

    So now you know exactly what she said when she was informed of what she bought,you can read for yoursef how well recived it was.

    I have always respected your posts, here and on TOB, which is why I included one in my email to her

    As someone who has been across the pond for various equine reasons,pleasure and education. I am aware of exactly what these horses can do. In the right hands, yes, they can make a lot of money, if that is what the person is after. But in the hands of someone who is as green as golfcourse grass, with a " breed" that is veiwed pretty much with a mixture of amusment,at the cost and admiration,of their looks, that is not likey going to be the case.

    As far as envy goes, now that really is a stretch, and not a very flattering one. My sister and I both enjoy a nice lifestyle, one is hardly enviable from the other. That being said, she is my sister and I love her, but, I want her to be aware of just what she is getting into, not to be romanced by some fairytale, and an over inflated price tag.

    (ETA: My sister is very new in the horse world. She just built a barn that is not even a year old. She only has owned horses for a few years, and has never taken a lesson in her life)

    As for it having nothing to do with me, she is the one who came to me for advice, I can not help it if she did not like what I had to say.I did use the points of other horsemen and women, so she did not think it was my opinion alone.


    Here if you are interested is the post of yours I linked her to:

    A gypsy vanner is a coloured cob.

    It's not a breed, it's a type.

    Those words are rarely, if ever used here. And when they are used, its ordinarily by someone new to the horse world and considered to be quite funny.

    A gypsy vanner is merely any coloured cob type with feathers. And yes we've got a lot of coloured cobs over here.

    Correctly they're always called "coloured" here and no matter what they are. So it might be a "coloured" chestnut and white tobiano Dutch Warmblood or a "coloured" black and white overo Welsh Section D X cob for instance.

    And they fall into many categories: From nice Dutch Warmbloods and x's and Welsh D's and oft crossed with Irish Drafts and a mass of decent ones of that ilk and to blooming FUgly low grade grotty things

    In the UK there just isn't the desire or market to have anything and everything on a registry. And so until relatively recently all you could register were purebreeds. Then we have some sports horse registries and those are based on inspection of type (based on breed) and performance achievement.

    So Gypsy Vanners started out as a joke a bit like a lot of the registries you have over there.



    www.illbredpuke.com

    www.FUglyhairyhorse.com

    www.wtfisthishorse.com

    I think the Gypsy Vanner thing just started as a spoof on the silly likes of the above.

    The coloured horse was always considered to be "common" over here. They were however prized by traditional Romany communities and there were in fact some very nice ones. And ordinarily of welsh section D type.

    Then only a few decades ago we started to see some very nice coloured Dutch Warmbloods come over and those were often crossed with welsh D's in particular to produce really good driving horses. However some were always producing coloured offspring and also (because of the section D) with feathering and they were sought out by the Romany community for their quality and type.

    Then some folks who were respected and knowledgeable horse people owned some spectacular DWB's and they were being bred to some exceptional t/b's and the result some VERY good performance sports horses who were being seen on the jumping and eventing circuit. THIS gave rise to the popularity of the coloured horse in the UK.

    At this time I had my stud farm and had 2 world famous DWB's belonging to a very important owner and it was these stallions who (by their connections as much as their quality) gave rise to the popularity of quality good coloured horses. Not only were some nice sports horses bred, but also some exceptional high level competition driving horses.

    However no different to any breed and/or type, SOME people can't see what they're looking at and with a coloured horse, they can't see past the colour.

    I always say that no good horse is a bad colour. But regrettably some folks think a lot of bad horses are good colours. And they can't see past colour.

    But yes I've got coloured cobs now. I've owned them for a long time and they're driven. Indeed all the ones I've had and currently got are all ride AND drive.
    __________________
    “Don't approach a goat from the front, a horse from the back, or a fool from any side.”


    http://www.floddenedgefarmequestriancentre.com

    Her repy is in the OP, your words, nor mine seem to make a bit of difference to her.

    But as always Thomas, I enjoy your charming, and sometimes cheeky replies.

    Thank you for your time
    FMO:OMG I almost put my eye out hunting clique.

    Comment

    • Original Poster
      #42
      Originally posted by ReSomething View Post
      T1 has a point. I hear that if you go to Europe the Big Thing is the QH, that's right, "Heza skippin' fool" is a Rare and Special (and Costly) item.

      I'd hit her up for money, she obviously has some, then you can hit some bars and toast relatives with no sense because they are everywhere. Mine are unrepentant backyard breeders - can you say unbroken eleven year old mares?
      I have a dear friend in Somerset, who shows QH's. It is almost the exact same situation in reverse. A horse as common as dirt on our soil, fetches a high price across the pond.

      She does not tell me how to spend my money, and I do not tell her how to spend hers.

      I can only hope this venture is a bit better than that one.
      Last edited by Ware Whip!; Jul. 22, 2010, 12:57 AM.
      FMO:OMG I almost put my eye out hunting clique.

      Comment

      • #43
        Oh P!!!!!!!!!!

        I a not only aghasted but agog and agape LOL!!!

        When will you have pics? Are you going to start hunting with them? Will you need new duds for the hunt to better bring out the festive coloring!? Or just extra hooch?

        WOW.

        Comment

        • #44
          Originally posted by Thomas_1 View Post
          But you do need to know that you can get some fantastic coloured cobs....They can also make a lot of money.

          Your sister might just think you're envious and that it's got nothing at all to do with you and she may just have a point.
          She didn't buy coloured cobs...she bought Gypo Vanners with all the "sizzle and not the steak" attached to them by their marketing people. They already made a lot of money...for the people who got in on the ground floor of these colourful chunks/cobs. They put a label on them and charged WAY more than their value. All these arguments have come before on a ton of other posts.

          Calling the orignal poster "envious" is an unsupported snark. We all hate to have friends and family taken advantage of due to their ignorance...kinda' like people who vote Labour.
          "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

          Comment

          • #45
            Originally posted by Trakehner View Post

            Calling the orignal poster "envious" is an unsupported snark.
            Try reading again slowly and carefully.

            Comment

            • #46
              Originally posted by Chardavej View Post
              I love Vanners, I think they are beautiful and I like their stockiness and the fact they're short. I don't like their price, that is what is ridiculous about them, not the horse itself, the cost, and the people with $$$ signs in their eyes. They are so overpriced it's stupid, if they ever came down to where they should be though I would have one in a heartbeat!
              No clue on these "Vanners" but this purchase topic caught my attention as there is currently a rescue that is attempting to save 2 of these "Vanners" from a feedlot in Cali. There's two of them at $200 a piece.

              Story here;

              http://forums.delphiforums.com/alexb...es?msg=48282.1

              Comment

              • #47
                Originally posted by Ware Whip! View Post
                I am really being nice, and supportive, I do find them lovley, and they are a good match for her in all honestly. But, they are what they are.
                Sad to say she was sold a bill of goods about how much money someone with her very limited experiece is going to make. She did not even buy from one of the more well know breeders, the colt I just found out is a cross . It is sad that some people just will take advantage of an uneducated equine consumer.
                It's common place. "Vanners" are always going to be cross breeds. There's nothing wrong with that either. You can get some very nice cross bred cobs. They can also sell for a lot of money if they've good conformation.

                Interesting post Thomas, I guess now would be a good time to tell you, that when she was referring to what the Brittish call what, what. It was in answer to your post about Vanners, that I used as an example of what many horse people think of the " breed".
                She's probably wondering why the heck you sent her a random posting after she's got the horses.

                Do tell: what was the context of your posting a copy of that to her?

                But in the hands of someone who is as green as golfcourse grass, with a " breed" that is veiwed pretty much with a mixture of amusment,at the cost and admiration,of their looks, that is not likey going to be the case.
                Whether the horse will make money or not is dependent not only on the horse and the owner but whether there's someone willing to pay a lot for it. It happens.

                As far as envy goes, now that really is a stretch, and not a very flattering one. My sister and I both enjoy a nice lifestyle, one is hardly enviable from the other. That being said, she is my sister and I love her, but, I want her to be aware of just what she is getting into, not to be romanced by some fairytale, and an over inflated price tag.
                So let's see a photo of the horses she's bought? How much did she pay for them? What is their breeding?

                But as always Thomas, I enjoy your charming, and sometimes cheeky replies.

                Thank you for your time
                Thanks and you're welcome

                Comment

                • #48
                  You need to be very careful about sisters' horses.

                  Over a decade ago, my sister had a young prospect (2 or 3 yo maybe) who was not yet ready to compete.

                  She "needed" something to compete while he grew up.

                  She bought a 7 or 8 yo hot mare, small, spooky as hell, who had been eliminated 3 time on cross country at BN, and broken her former owner's leg. And when she tried her out she couldn't get the mare over even the smallest ditch.

                  Going to go Novice- MAYBE Training.

                  I thought it was a self-indulgent and short sighted purchase, and refused to be enthusiastic.

                  We all know what THAT led to (2003 Mare of the Year, top 20 at Fair Hill CCI***. etc.)
                  Janet

                  chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                  Comment

                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Janet View Post
                    You need to be very careful about sisters' horses.

                    Over a decade ago, my sister had a young prospect (2 or 3 yo maybe) who was not yet ready to compete.

                    She "needed" something to compete while he grew up.

                    She bought a 7 or 8 yo hot mare, small, spooky as hell, who had been eliminated 3 time on cross country at BN, and broken her former owner's leg. And when she tried her out she couldn't get the mare over even the smallest ditch.

                    I thought it was a self-indulgent and short sighted purchase, and refused to be enthusiastic.

                    We all know what THAT led to (2003 Mare of the Year, top 20 at Fair Hill CCI***. etc.)

                    LOL, not all sisters are created equal.

                    My sister would have been able to accomplish what yours did (minus the jumping, not her thing) While I would be more the type of the OP's sister, well, minus the urge to buy hairy beasts for exorbitant amounts of money....

                    But you get the drift!

                    Comment

                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Thomas_1 View Post
                      Try reading again slowly and carefully.
                      "Your sister might just think you're envious and that it's got nothing at all to do with you and she may just have a point."

                      Odd sentence structure but it reads accusations of envy to me.
                      "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

                      Comment

                      • #51
                        Gypsy Vanners!!! Why They're Majjjjikal!

                        Here's my two... look at them, they're perfect!
                        http://sports.webshots.com/photo/292...48495570FNtgqn

                        Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster
                          #52
                          Originally posted by twotrudoc View Post
                          Oh P!!!!!!!!!!

                          I a not only aghasted but agog and agape LOL!!!

                          When will you have pics? Are you going to start hunting with them? Will you need new duds for the hunt to better bring out the festive coloring!? Or just extra hooch?

                          WOW.
                          Originally posted by Trakehner View Post
                          She didn't buy coloured cobs...she bought Gypo Vanners with all the "sizzle and not the steak" attached to them by their marketing people. They already made a lot of money...for the people who got in on the ground floor of these colourful chunks/cobs. They put a label on them and charged WAY more than their value. All these arguments have come before on a ton of other posts.

                          Calling the orignal poster "envious" is an unsupported snark. We all hate to have friends and family taken advantage of due to their ignorance...kinda' like people who vote Labour.
                          Originally posted by Trakehner View Post
                          "Your sister might just think you're envious and that it's got nothing at all to do with you and she may just have a point."

                          Odd sentence structure but it reads accusations of envy to me.

                          Ladies my thanks, I asked for support and many of you gave it, with grace, humor, wisdom and generosity.

                          I am grateful from the bottom of my heart.

                          Thomas, I read and re read with comprehension, and came to the same conclusion.

                          Envy is a small petty emotion, there is not room in my heart, or life for it.

                          Especialy when it comes to my family.
                          Last edited by Ware Whip!; May. 21, 2010, 05:25 PM.
                          FMO:OMG I almost put my eye out hunting clique.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster
                            #53
                            Originally posted by Thomas_1 View Post
                            It's common place. "Vanners" are always going to be cross breeds. There's nothing wrong with that either. You can get some very nice cross bred cobs. They can also sell for a lot of money if they've good conformation.

                            Only the colt is a cross, the mare in foal is, according to her PURE Gypsy Vanner.

                            She's probably wondering why the heck you sent her a random posting after she's got the horses.

                            No this mail was sent after she went and saw the horses, before she bought them.

                            Do tell: what was the context of your posting a copy of that to her?

                            If you are really that interested,it would be my pleasure to foreward it to you. Would you like me to do so via your business site?

                            Whether the horse will make money or not is dependent not only on the horse and the owner but whether there's someone willing to pay a lot for it. It happens.

                            Yes it does, and it gets cold in August here as well.


                            So let's see a photo of the horses she's bought? How much did she pay for them? What is their breeding?

                            They are not at her home yet, as she has to clear more pasture, and build a run in for them, her barn is full. I did mention that.

                            I am going to be staying with her children in June, I will be happy to get you pictures,and read their "papers" to tell you about their breeding then, will that do?
                            Thanks and you're welcome
                            Really Thomas, don't mention it..
                            FMO:OMG I almost put my eye out hunting clique.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster
                              #54
                              Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                              LOL, not all sisters are created equal.

                              My sister would have been able to accomplish what yours did (minus the jumping, not her thing) While I would be more the type of the OP's sister, well, minus the urge to buy hairy beasts for exorbitant amounts of money....

                              But you get the drift!
                              This, exactly

                              Originally posted by tidy rabbit View Post
                              Gypsy Vanners!!! Why They're Majjjjikal!

                              Here's my two... look at them, they're perfect!
                              http://sports.webshots.com/photo/292...48495570FNtgqn

                              Oh my Tidy Rabbit, they are majjjjikal!
                              FMO:OMG I almost put my eye out hunting clique.

                              Comment

                              • #55
                                I ride one and truly enjoy working with him. Just a hairy haflinger with color in my opinion. I'll keep my own horse though, $50 vs. 50k, no competition.

                                (different rider up)
                                http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ndiana_323.jpg

                                What $50 can get you.
                                http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...Things_021.jpg
                                To be loved by a horse, or by any animal, should fill us with awe-
                                for we have not deserved it.
                                Marion Garretty

                                Comment

                                • #56
                                  So your sister bought 2 horses in a breed that she happens to love. Oh the horror. As someone else posted on a recent Gypsy Vanner thread - not too long ago it was middle aged women paying $$$$$$$ for imported warmbloods, then freisians, now vanners. Big whoop. I fail to see the problem. I know 2 of these horses in real life and they are lovely horses. They are honest, reliable, and classy. I went to school with a girl from France who was on top of the moon with the fact that someone at her barn imported a Quarter Horse cow pony and she actually GOT TO RIDE HIM! I thought it was kind of comical but she was seriously thrilled that she got to ride a real live, American Quarter Horse because where she grew up and boarded, there just weren't any.

                                  People always want something different, unusual, or rare. People pay thousands of dollars to go West and hunt an exotic animal, or swim with dolphins, or import horses of different breeds. For the life of me I can't figure out why people think this is so horrible that we should all run screaming in horror until our head falls off.

                                  I see yearling warmbloods and friesians for sale for $8,000 all over the place. How is that ANY different than the vanner people?

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster
                                    #57
                                    Oh my, what a tempest in a teapot!

                                    What started out to be a tongue in cheek, bit of fun, developed in to this?

                                    I have people not only questioning my basic character,but casting aspersions. As if any of this, at the end of the day matters.

                                    Yes, she bought them and I hope she enjoys every single moment with them.

                                    Do I have to like it- no, and I entitled to my opinion about the situation- yes.

                                    I do realise that making a post asking for support, about something that does not affect my life one iota, is open for all to pontificate on.

                                    But,when you have not even read the thread, and do not have the facts straight, assuming makes one look as if it is just an excuse to run on....
                                    FMO:OMG I almost put my eye out hunting clique.

                                    Comment

                                    • #58
                                      well, I'd hate to see somebody I cared for buying whatever for a substancial amount of money when something equally nice could have been had for a fraction. The only reason they get away with that is that horses can't be appraised like say a car or even a house.

                                      A fell/Dale pony or Highland pony would have been similar, and probaly cheaper...

                                      However, I hope that Sis enjoys her ponies to the fullest and doesn't get burned.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster
                                        #59
                                        Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                        well, I'd hate to see somebody I cared for buying whatever for a substancial amount of money when something equally nice could have been had for a fraction. The only reason they get away with that is that horses can't be appraised like say a car or even a house.

                                        A fell/Dale pony or Highland pony would have been similar, and probaly cheaper...

                                        However, I hope that Sis enjoys her ponies to the fullest and doesn't get burned.

                                        Thank you so much, I appreciate your understanding .

                                        I agree, a far better choice, but, you can not make up someones mind for them. These horses are more than likey going to stay on her place forever, at least they will have excellent care, and peaceful lives, even if it is just as window dressing.

                                        If it was not this, it would be something else.
                                        FMO:OMG I almost put my eye out hunting clique.

                                        Comment

                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by tidy rabbit View Post
                                          Gypsy Vanners!!! Why They're Majjjjikal!

                                          Here's my two... look at them, they're perfect!
                                          http://sports.webshots.com/photo/292...48495570FNtgqn

                                          Do your sister's vanners have horns like TR's? She is really lucky!!!!


                                          I think you will need reinforcements when you plan the sneak mane pulling and feather clipping attack - let me know - I'm here for you!

                                          Comment

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