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Anyone considering a donation to a resuce or other nonprofit - FYI...

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  • #41
    Originally posted by MistyBlue View Post
    What is interesting is the possible reasoning used to post like this:

    Putting the word help in quotes...sarcasm would be implied considering past posting from the same poster on the subject of this particular rescue.

    If someone doesn't understand or like the broker marketed horses, one isn't required to donate to them. Nor are they required to take continuos pot-shots are same rescue due to either their misunderstanding or dislike. Especially since this thread wasn't about this rescue in particular. No need to be snide about bringing them up and wording the posts in a way to attempt to cast suspicion on them.

    Frankly after the impersonation attempt and the constant obvious implications of nefarious activity on this particualr rescue I'm astounded that this BB hasn't revoked this person's membership and that the rescue hasn't taken legal action against this poster personally.
    Yes indeed. Isn't this just getting old with the same trolling? She puts out dollar amounts identical ( just checked ) to Christy's rescue and then attempts to play dumb as if that isn't the rescue she continuously tries to discredit. This has become so old and several groups know this all stems from a personal "issue" that she just can't move on and make better use of her time.
    She already ran back to her rescue patrol group whining after she insinuated the discrediting allegations. Makes me wonder why she thinks Christy wasn't supposed to answer her regarding another foiled attempt to discredit AC4H.

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by Floridarider View Post
      Makes me wonder why she thinks Christy wasn't supposed to answer her regarding another foiled attempt to discredit AC4H.

      I'm not singling out any particular group but it makes ME wonder why more groups don't act like Crosswinds Rescue. Non-defensive, transparent and non-confrontational. Willing to discuss and educate to those who are open to being educated.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by sketcher View Post
        I'm not singling out any particular group but it makes ME wonder why more groups don't act like Crosswinds Rescue. Non-defensive, transparent and non-confrontational. Willing to discuss and educate to those who are open to being educated.
        I don't think this has anything to do with transparency. I have seen many rescues step up to the plate and answer questions as well as provide any needed paper work deemed appropriate. I just read how AC4H brings has an independent audit done; now if that's not transparent, can't see how it gets anymore transparent than that.
        The problem here sounds more like inappropriate behavior and an another example of just plain harassment.

        Comment


        • #44
          Christy from AC4H has invited Angela more than once on this BB to call and/or visit the rescue and ask any questions she might have...and to come see how things are run.
          Angela hasn't done so as far as anyone knows...preferring instead of make snide comments here and there on this BB hoping to discredit a org she knows next to nothing about. And slamming them on her own BB.
          Christy has done the same with others, and folks with personal experience with them have all stated the same thing: They're doing good legitimate work.
          According to the IRS they stay on the up and up and are very up front with all paperwork.
          These things can be easily found out...IF the person searching knows their arse from their elbow and aren't being biased looking *only* for anything they can twist to sound try to make it sound bad.
          And AC4H isn't being defensive...they're being quite open and honest considering the thinly veiled snipes made at them constantly from Angela Freda on this BB. WHy wasn't Angela Freda being non-defensive, transparent and non-confrontational in her posts about AC4H on here? Why all the cloak and dagger comments about "some rescue" after posting their *very* public stats? Seems AC4H was the one to step up and be transparent and honest...NOT angela freda.
          You jump in the saddle,
          Hold onto the bridle!
          Jump in the line!
          ...Belefonte

          Comment


          • #45
            Yes I used the AC4H numbers in my example. Why? Because I have been looking up all the top $$ rescues on the NY AG website for charities to see if ANY of them are registered to solicit here in NY [as per a previous post regarding that NYSAG requirement on this thread].
            When I wanted to cite numbers that were huge and unexplained by the 990 form, since the discussion had switched gears a bit in that direction, their 990s happened to be on top.
            Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

            http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
              Yes I used the AC4H numbers in my example. Why? Because I have been looking up all the top $$ rescues on the NY AG website for charities to see if ANY of them are registered to solicit here in NY [as per a previous post regarding that NYSAG requirement on this thread].
              When I wanted to cite numbers that were huge and unexplained by the 990 form, since the discussion had switched gears a bit in that direction, their 990s happened to be on top.

              Oh, of course you did! It's all so terribly likely, isn't it? You didn't single out ac4h, you never do. You just *happened* to arbitrarily use their numbers. You weren't implying anything, you never do.

              I beg to differ. The obsession is pretty transparent for anyone who cares to take a stroll down memory lane:


              http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=220316
              Clowns to the Left or me Jokers to the Right...here I am...stuck in the middle

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                Yes I used the AC4H numbers in my example. Why? Because I have been looking up all the top $$ rescues on the NY AG website for charities to see if ANY of them are registered to solicit here in NY [as per a previous post regarding that NYSAG requirement on this thread].
                When I wanted to cite numbers that were huge and unexplained by the 990 form, since the discussion had switched gears a bit in that direction, their 990s happened to be on top.
                Nice try but you're not convincing me. If you were sincere in just using AC4H as an example, why the obvious intended sarcasm when you used the word "rescue" and put it in quotes. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck; I can spot an obvious slur, and it was undeserved and just plain unprofessional on your part. Care to try again?

                Comment


                • #48
                  Read any of my posts, I put 'rescue' in quote almost all the time more recently, because we are seeing more and more horse buying for strangers and other things going on under the name of Rescue.

                  'and it was undeserved and just plain unprofessional on your part. '
                  Say what? What does posting here about horse rescue have to do with my profession?

                  Suit yourselves, really. You want to think there's a witch hunt, g'head.
                  Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                  http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by MoJo View Post
                    Oh, of course you did! It's all so terribly likely, isn't it? You didn't single out ac4h, you never do. You just *happened* to arbitrarily use their numbers. You weren't implying anything, you never do.

                    I beg to differ. The obsession is pretty transparent for anyone who cares to take a stroll down memory lane:


                    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=220316
                    ROTFLMAO

                    My daddy is an IRS agent too! LMAO & *rollseyes* What the fruitbat?

                    I personally don't know the rescue "in question" (yeah, a quoted excerpt from the person claiming it's all be innocent using the AC4H rescue as the "example") but I agree, it's crystal clear there's an agenda and as someone else wrote it really stinks of being personal. Thanks for the link to that other discussion, it looks like a trip down memory lane for this rescue being attacked.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                      Read any of my posts, I put 'rescue' in quote almost all the time more recently, because we are seeing more and more horse buying for strangers and other things going on under the name of Rescue.

                      'and it was undeserved and just plain unprofessional on your part. '
                      Say what? What does posting here about horse rescue have to do with my profession?

                      Suit yourselves, really. You want to think there's a witch hunt, g'head.
                      The OP began this discussion about non profits who have not filed for 3 consecutive years and are at risk of losing their non profit status. Your first comment centered around Guide Star, but by your second post, you had already honed into your favorite topic AC4H. How do I know? Well, sit a spell and I'll explain it to you. You commented about non profits in other states soliciting in New York, and bingo, right away you had your itty bitty gun pointed at am unnamed rescue in PA. Your third remark took that PA rescue, still unnamed but so obvious as listing the exact numbers and calling them "astonishing." At that point Christy came on and downright outed you, and here you are again, humina,humina and now with another excuse. Now you claim that AC4H was chosen because it was one of the top numbers, but several people have explained it here that the form for the 990's is just that vague. If you were really not a witch hunt as you so adamantly state here, then why did you just repeat the same excuse that has previously been explained very clearly by veteran members here? Shouldn't your IRS employed daddy be able to tell you this?

                      And as far as being professional, whatever you might do, especially when asahm, it sets a good example for your children not to harass and twist facts.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Just curious. Does AC4H have any 990's posted to Guidestar after 2007?

                        And where does one look for audit information? Is that the Guidestar site as well? It seems to me audit information might be more useful than those 990's

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          For what it's worth, Guidestar is moving towards looking at stats and outcomes as a means of judging the progress of an organization. Charities certainly don't have to fill in all the information they request, but it would be a really good idea to try.

                          And as a reaction to the bad guys out there, the IRS started looking for a lot more information on audits this year. It was a ton of work on our part, but it will pay off with a wealth of transparency to our donors. Because of our efforts we received a 4-star rating on Charity Navigator two years in a row, which is a rare achievement. Like someone else said, most people don't form a nonprofit wanting to do paperwork, but it certainly comes with a ton of paperwork.

                          Guidestar requires that viewers purchase a membership to see the particulars of finances. I know they have our 990 and our audited financials, as well as a lot of information about our board, our programs, our annual goals, etc.

                          Charity Navigator gives you a financial snapshot for free. For example, right on the main page of a charity you see Organizational Efficiency, which breaks down expenses by percentage and Capacity, which shows growth and working capital (in years).

                          As for the poster who seems to be after a particular nonprofit, unless that place only cares for a tiny handful of horses, that's not a lot of money in and out. It is a surprisingly even number in and out, though. They must have an excellent bookkeeper and/or amazing donation to expenses budget planning for the year.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            If memory serves me right, Angela Freda had some issues with a so called 'rescue' dealing with broker owned horses that was not AC4H.
                            Think heifer of honor at the BBQ type of attention. I suppose she has her reasons to be skeptical of similar setups.

                            I thought I read the whole thread, I was not just a little surprised that this was turned personal: I did not see any organization mentioned, only an illustration how the required form had little to say past the absolute money turnover.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                              I suppose she has her reasons to be skeptical of similar setups.
                              Frankly, people coming out and attacking a poster who might have skepticism about a charitable organization is not helpful to the rescues.

                              Some of these groups and their followers are fanatical, idealistic and naive. Some rescues are outright dishonest. Some are perhaps defensive in a way which is not helpful to them. And, there are certainly plenty of nasty politics and people who are willing to do nasty and retaliatory things if they feel their rescue has been 'picked on'. There can be a 'take no prisoners' attitude that is very disturbing to anyone who has experienced it directly.

                              It would just be a lot better to not see the constant defensiveness from some of these groups. The issue is transparency. Clear and simple. If an organization is transparent, then there is really nothing a skeptic can do to injure or discredit them - as the answers to the skeptics questions are available.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                From this same site;

                                1.4(b)(12)).
                                (b) Article 7-A Registration Exemption Claims. An organization is exempt from registration under
                                Article 7-A if it fits any of the following definitions:
                                (1) Organization does not solicit or receive any contributions from NY State (including residents,
                                foundations, corporations, government agencies, etc.) (Article 7-A section 172.1.).
                                (2) Organization solicits and receives gross contributions from NY State (including residents,
                                foundations, corporations, government agencies, etc.), but organization’s gross contributions from NY
                                State are less than and will continue to be less than twenty-five thousand dollars per year from NY State
                                of New York and organization does not and will not use the services of a professional fund raiser or
                                fund raising counsel (Article 7-A section 172-a.2.(d)).

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by sketcher View Post
                                  Frankly, people coming out and attacking a poster who might have skepticism about a charitable organization is not helpful to the rescues.

                                  Some of these groups and their followers are fanatical, idealistic and naive. Some rescues are outright dishonest. Some are perhaps defensive in a way which is not helpful to them. And, there are certainly plenty of nasty politics and people who are willing to do nasty and retaliatory things if they feel their rescue has been 'picked on'. There can be a 'take no prisoners' attitude that is very disturbing to anyone who has experienced it directly.

                                  It would just be a lot better to not see the constant defensiveness from some of these groups. The issue is transparency. Clear and simple. If an organization is transparent, then there is really nothing a skeptic can do to injure or discredit them - as the answers to the skeptics questions are available.
                                  Well of course there's also the fanatical obsessive person out to make someone else's life misreable because of personal issues. The nasty and retaliatory things individuals can do can be deemed just as dangerous. The individual might well be doing the "picking on" now might they?

                                  It seems a defense in some situations is very necessary so as not to perpetuate some of the false allegations individuals are making to harm a business; in this case maybe a horse rescue? That is why we have libel and slander laws.

                                  Now as to transparency, what you state is true, but some people delight in the " he said, she said" and an illusion of someone doing wrong could carry undue influence on any casual reader. While it is true there are bad rescues and dishonest people, is it up to someone abiding themself as the rescue police and arbitrarily tossing "zingers" to be allowed to discredit someone or an organization? I don't think so and neither does the law since that is why we have plantiffs and defendants. Each side should be able to state their case, and it should not be construed as "bringing out the goons." ( not my quote, but you might want to research that )Of course, this is not aimed at anyone in particular ... we're just talking.. right?

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #57
                                    My goal in starting the thread was to spread the word about some interesting news, and I certainly did not intend this to be a rescue bashing thread!

                                    You're right. There are a heck of a lot of ways a donor/potential donor can determine if a rescue is worthy of their gift. How the rescue responds to real or perceived criticism is certainly a good one.

                                    We often get to talking about professionalism in rescues, bad/good rescues, and how to tell the difference between a good or bad one.

                                    Certainly the most important thing is complying with federal and state law and regulation. There is no mystery to this, as all of it, including information required by the individual states, is available to the public on-demand.

                                    The 990 is just a tax return, and it gives a person about as much information about an orgs finances as the 1040 does about a citizens finances.

                                    Not much. The org should also make available its financial statements. That is the meat of the org finances.

                                    So - what are financial statements. Well, if anyone is curious you can look at a large nonprofit to get an idea. (a small nonprofits statements will not be this complex!) Here's an example from the ARC:
                                    http://www.redcross.org/www-files/Do...lang0_3599.pdf

                                    As you can see when you look at an org financial statements, you can tell where they are spending their money - and more importantly - how they are accounting for revenue.

                                    We may not agree with what they are doing with that money, which is ok, but at least we know what the heck is going on.

                                    Another document that can be useful is the orgs annual report. Large and medium nonprofits usually have this printed professionally and they're available online. A small nonprofit may just print their report in an annual newsletter and also list all their donors.

                                    It's all good.

                                    The goal is disclosure, compliance, and transparency. If the potential donor, armed with good information, decides the nonprofit isn't a good place to donate - that's ok.

                                    Likewise the nonprofit shouldn't take it personally when donors express their displeasure publicly or privately. (I'm excluding vendettas or stalker/troll types, please understand). The nonprofits primary duty is to the public - they exist for the public good.

                                    If the rescues paperwork is all in order, they are complying with state law and regs as well, then it should be fairly easy for a donor to make his/her decision. If the donors gift was misused, misapplied, or the solicitation was fraudulent, then it's a matter for the State AG and the IRS.

                                    I am hoping the recent changes will make it more difficult for bogus/bad nonprofits to keep operating.

                                    Originally posted by sketcher View Post
                                    Some rescues are outright dishonest. Some are perhaps defensive in a way which is not helpful to them. And, there are certainly plenty of nasty politics and people who are willing to do nasty and retaliatory things if they feel their rescue has been 'picked on'. There can be a 'take no prisoners' attitude that is very disturbing to anyone who has experienced it directly.

                                    It would just be a lot better to not see the constant defensiveness from some of these groups. The issue is transparency. Clear and simple. If an organization is transparent, then there is really nothing a skeptic can do to injure or discredit them - as the answers to the skeptics questions are available.
                                    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                    -Rudyard Kipling

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Going points JSwan.

                                      And if someone wants to see a P&L or financial statement on a smaller nonprofit, ours are up at http://www.bluebonnetequine.org/about/financials.htm (we have Jan. and Feb. up now - March and April are coming soon).

                                      The 990 isn't very useful - but the monthly statements can be (depending on how the organization breaks them down).
                                      Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                                      Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Floridarider View Post
                                        Well of course there's also the fanatical obsessive person out to make someone else's life misreable because of personal issues.
                                        No. If there is transparency then there is no reason for a person to let another person "make their life miserable". That would be an interpersonal issue of the person who allows themselves to "be made" to feel that way.

                                        People who in leadership positions in an organization, whether it be for or non-profit - need to have their emotional act together. They need to have a reasonable degree of professionalism. That means, if they are doing what they need to be doing, then their is no reason to be defensive.

                                        The truth always comes out in the end.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          The truth always comes out in the end.
                                          Unfortunately "the end" might be too late for someone's reputation that has been slagged all over the internet.

                                          NJR
                                          Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.

                                          Comment

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