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Anyone considering a donation to a resuce or other nonprofit - FYI...

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  • #21
    Originally posted by sketcher View Post
    For those who do it. There is at least one rescue and their proponents who frequent this board which does not do it and purportedly refuses to do it. Maybe they fall under the 25k rule, but I think it's poor form anyway to refuse to provide financial information.
    I have the 990s for one rescue who posts pleas here, easily got them direct from the IRS, and the totals in and out are just astonishing:
    2006- total revenue- $219,389.86 Total program service exp $212,985.95
    2007- total revenue- $298,684.11 Total program service exp $297,681.94

    That is alot of money in, and alot of money out!!! Alas, explanations of where it went, are not really clear on the form. You would think the 990 for a charity would allow more room for those types of explanations, since one could easily draw the 'wrong' conclusions.
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

    Comment


    • #22
      unfortunately, the form is generic for any type of nonprofit, and they dont really have good ways to break out expenses.

      NOTE: if they do any sort of poker/bingo type 'gaming' fundraising, that makes your numbers look quite odd as you have to give the "true gross" (for 3 events we held, true gross was over $45,000; net was less than $5K).
      AnnMarie Cross, Pres, Crosswinds Equine Rescue, cwer.org
      Sidell IL (near Champ./UofI/Danville IL/IN state border)

      Comment


      • #23
        Glad I am not the only one who always thought the 990 didnt really give people an accurate acct. of monies spent or monies in. We may bring in $5000 at a fundraiser but only make $2000 and it doesnt really show you that.

        As you said Crosswind, there is no descriptive really for feed, vet, farrier etc. etc so I hand write it in and on the paperwork. I also have a spread sheet that describes it all perfectly so if anyone asks for my 990, I send them that too if I have a mailing address.

        I couldnt imagine have $300,000 come in in one year but......................I know I could spend it. I would not wonder how to build the next shelter or where the money will come from to fence. I would simply do those things. Alas, it will be a long long time before we ever see that kind of money hahahaaha
        Our horses are not seen as the old and disabled they may have become, but rather as the mighty steeds they once believed themselves to be.

        Sunkissed Acres Rescue and Retirement

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by snkstacres View Post
          As you said Crosswind, there is no descriptive really for feed, vet, farrier etc. etc so I hand write it in and on the paperwork. I also have a spread sheet that describes it all perfectly so if anyone asks for my 990, I send them that too if I have a mailing address.
          That sounds like an awesome idea to make things very clear

          Originally posted by snkstacres View Post
          I couldnt imagine have $300,000 come in in one year but......................I know I could spend it. I would not wonder how to build the next shelter or where the money will come from to fence.
          You know good question, maybe the rescue in question had projects such as those?
          Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

          http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
            I have the 990s for one rescue who posts pleas here, easily got them direct from the IRS, and the totals in and out are just astonishing:
            2006- total revenue- $219,389.86 Total program service exp $212,985.95
            2007- total revenue- $298,684.11 Total program service exp $297,681.94

            That is alot of money in, and alot of money out!!! Alas, explanations of where it went, are not really clear on the form. You would think the 990 for a charity would allow more room for those types of explanations, since one could easily draw the 'wrong' conclusions.
            All you have to do is go to Guidestar.org. Registration is free and you can pull up someone's 990s. As for someone's total revenue, that could be due to anything. Check the Canter site. They have a huge number, but none of that means much. It's the bottom line and the net income that counts. I can't see making a general statement that it is alot of money in and alot of money out. If you're interested in participating in the rescue, why don't you call the rescue and ask them those questions? I don't see anything astonishing about the figures if an org has helped alot of horses. Between rent, feed, hay, medical, even paid employees, it's really hard to imagine there's going to be much difference in and out.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
              I have the 990s for one rescue who posts pleas here, easily got them direct from the IRS, and the totals in and out are just astonishing:
              2006- total revenue- $219,389.86 Total program service exp $212,985.95
              2007- total revenue- $298,684.11 Total program service exp $297,681.94

              That is alot of money in, and alot of money out!!! Alas, explanations of where it went, are not really clear on the form. You would think the 990 for a charity would allow more room for those types of explanations, since one could easily draw the 'wrong' conclusions.
              And, a direct statement to me from a responsible person at that charity stating they no longer provide 990's and basically have no intention of disclosing any financial information. I thought maybe I misunderstood that comment as it was made off the cuff and not in response to anything I asked - however I fail to understand how the information does not have to be provided for a charity of this size. Maybe it is but they do not provide it to Guidestar?

              Comment


              • #27
                Sketcher, to which charity are you referring?
                Clowns to the Left or me Jokers to the Right...here I am...stuck in the middle

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by sketcher View Post
                  And, a direct statement to me from a responsible person at that charity stating they no longer provide 990's and basically have no intention of disclosing any financial information. I thought maybe I misunderstood that comment as it was made off the cuff and not in response to anything I asked - however I fail to understand how the information does not have to be provided for a charity of this size. Maybe it is but they do not provide it to Guidestar?
                  IRS forms are so painfully inadequate. They are designed for a typical office type business, so it is hard to clearly illustrate where the money is and where it went to the public without a balance sheet. End of year financial reports are helpful for donors but not all rescues have the ability to generate one without the help of a professional.

                  From what I understand no one *has* to provide anything to Guidestar, but if you are smart you do. There are several places where supporting documents can be attached.

                  ETA, Sketcher, 501c3 Charities are required to provide you copies of 990's at your request. It is public information and they need to comply.
                  I Loff My Quarter Horse & I love Fenway Bartholomule cliques

                  Just somebody with a positive outlook on life...go ahead...hate me for that.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by equineartworks View Post
                    ETA, Sketcher, 501c3 Charities are required to provide you copies of 990's at your request. It is public information and they need to comply.
                    Further if you request them and they do not provide them in a timely manner [that is defined on the IRS site if anyone wishes to clarify] they can be fined.

                    However, how many of us here have any faith that they would fine them, or care too much? In the realm of the IRS the $$ they take in is peanuts compared to the big corps that are scammin' [Dad is an IRS agent who did audits of large corps.].
                    I find it much easier to send in the request to the IRS direct and get the copies sent to me.

                    Sketcher, are we talking about the same 'rescue'?
                    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by JoZee View Post
                      I don't see anything astonishing about the figures if an org has helped alot of horses. Between rent, feed, hay, medical, even paid employees, it's really hard to imagine there's going to be much difference in and out.
                      I would see nothing astonishing about it either, if the large number they 'help' was given all those services on their dime.
                      Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                      http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                        I have the 990s for one rescue who posts pleas here, easily got them direct from the IRS, and the totals in and out are just astonishing:
                        2006- total revenue- $219,389.86 Total program service exp $212,985.95
                        2007- total revenue- $298,684.11 Total program service exp $297,681.94

                        That is alot of money in, and alot of money out!!! Alas, explanations of where it went, are not really clear on the form. You would think the 990 for a charity would allow more room for those types of explanations, since one could easily draw the 'wrong' conclusions.
                        Anglea,

                        Why don't you just name our rescue? Another Chance 4 Horses, Inc.? The numbers are not astronomical they are very realistic when you look at the work we did and they are very efficient. We also are all volunteers so the money goes to helping the horses. No problem with those taking salaries and it isn't illegal - we just haven't.

                        So not sure what your alluding to here Anglea? Are you saying that we have done something illegal or wrong? Are you saying that because your father was an IRS agent that you know something someone else doesn't? Just didn't catch the relevance of that.

                        The AC4H international network saved hundreds of horses from slaughter and neglect 2009- To read the rest of the article click: http://www.examiner.com/x-25445-West...l-this-article

                        AC4H Thoroughbred Division placed 87 OTTB's in 2009 and helped 100 OTTB's.

                        We have approximately 40 horses in our care as we operate a rescue, rehabilitation and placement center.

                        We also assisted many SPCA agencies in fundraising including the Finger Lakes SPCA when they took on all those TB's and were sent a letter of thank you for helping them raise over $6k - they collected it not us but it was earmarked AC4H supporters.

                        So putting that into perspective what is wrong with the numbers Angela? The world doesn't operate on love.

                        Christy Sheidy, Co-Founder AC4H

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          point was I believe, that there is no room to itemize.

                          For all anybody can tell from that form that charity bought a semi for nearly 300k...

                          I think publishing spreadsheets for past returns would be cool.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Christy? Doesn't AC4H do voluntary audited financials each year? I seem to remember seeing those on your Guidestar. To me this speaks volumes, and when rescues get large like AC4H I think it gives donors a better feel for where the money goes and how their donations are used.

                            It is hard for the general public to wrap their heads around the expenses that equine organizations have. Year end reports help illustrate that, and with a detailed financial statement to go along with a narrative of the program expenses it is a win-win.
                            I Loff My Quarter Horse & I love Fenway Bartholomule cliques

                            Just somebody with a positive outlook on life...go ahead...hate me for that.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              We removed a recent post. Please keep the discussion on-topic and productive & avoid the personal commentary.

                              Thanks,
                              Mod 1

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                I can also say that just in filling out the form 1023 to become 501(c)3 - it's not made for the sort of things we do. It's an encompassing form that attempts to be inclusive, but, by its very nature, our needs are very different!

                                It is critical to be transparent. But I can also say what a headache it is to do these forms and paperwork! We are now registering in Missouri - even though we do not formally have to - that is yet another headache.

                                And it's "easier" for me - I am not trucking after horses and property all day long, I have daily access to the internet and phone. I can't imagine what it must be like to come in at night after what so many of our groups do - being in the trenches - and then have to wrap your brain around some of this.
                                Last edited by DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"; May. 11, 2010, 03:35 PM.
                                www.specialhorses.org
                                a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by equineartworks View Post
                                  ETA, Sketcher, 501c3 Charities are required to provide you copies of 990's at your request. It is public information and they need to comply.
                                  I didn't request anything and have no interest in doing so. The comment was made during an unrelated conversation and that is what raised my awareness about the 990's to begin with and also raised my irritation level, since I was highly irritated with the conversation to begin with.

                                  Also, I can see how the numbers on those forms aren't necesasarily a fair way to judge how a rescue is handling their finances - since it is clear that there are cases where the numbers look like something they are not.

                                  But, when these organizations don't act in transparent ways and you can't really see where the money that is being sent is going...unfortunately, that is not good for them.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Christy, don't sweat it. Angela Freda seems to have issues on and off with each and every rescue.
                                    I've checked your rescue out, it's legit as far as our attorney says.
                                    However an interesting thing learned is that impersonating a rescue to someone else is quite illegal.
                                    Huh, whoda thunk. Saved pages and everything...here and on ABR.
                                    And that attempt didn't work so well last time...I seem to recall it resulted in a poster taking a vacation from here for a while hoping things would blow over.
                                    They were quite lucky AC4H didn't pursue legal matters then...if it were me I'd quit poking at them with half truths.
                                    Just saying.
                                    You jump in the saddle,
                                    Hold onto the bridle!
                                    Jump in the line!
                                    ...Belefonte

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Anglea,

                                      Why don't you just name our rescue? Another Chance 4 Horses, Inc.?
                                      Thanks for coming forward....Those sort of "I know something you don't know..." posts make people wonder. Better to step up like you did.

                                      AF, this whole donation/rescue thing seems to be a real hot button for you. If you have a problem with a rescue, why not approach them directly instead of insinuating something here?

                                      However an interesting thing learned is that impersonating a rescue to someone else is quite illegal.
                                      Something to keep in mind, definitely.

                                      NJR
                                      Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                        point was I believe, that there is no room to itemize.

                                        For all anybody can tell from that form that charity bought a semi for nearly 300K
                                        Exactly the point.
                                        But the reaction to this discussion is interesting to note as well.
                                        Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                                        http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          point was I believe, that there is no room to itemize.

                                          For all anybody can tell from that form that charity bought a semi for nearly 300K


                                          Exactly the point.
                                          But the reaction to this discussion is interesting to note as well.
                                          Buying a semi truck for moving livestock around would be a legitimate cost for an equine rescue if a rescue did indeed purchase a semi.

                                          What is interesting is the possible reasoning used to post like this:
                                          I would see nothing astonishing about it either, if the large number they 'help' was given all those services on their dime.
                                          Putting the word help in quotes...sarcasm would be implied considering past posting from the same poster on the subject of this particular rescue.

                                          If someone doesn't understand or like the broker marketed horses, one isn't required to donate to them. Nor are they required to take continuos pot-shots are same rescue due to either their misunderstanding or dislike. Especially since this thread wasn't about this rescue in particular. No need to be snide about bringing them up and wording the posts in a way to attempt to cast suspicion on them.

                                          Frankly after the impersonation attempt and the constant obvious implications of nefarious activity on this particualr rescue I'm astounded that this BB hasn't revoked this person's membership and that the rescue hasn't taken legal action against this poster personally.
                                          You jump in the saddle,
                                          Hold onto the bridle!
                                          Jump in the line!
                                          ...Belefonte

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