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Scared For Riders Who Dont Wear Helmets

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  • #81
    Or even better. Health insurance?

    Comment

    • #82
      Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, life's little mysteries. Like if Grande stays away from horses, what the hell is Grande doing here?

      Comment

      • #83
        x..its very simple

        he is a pocket trainer client, simply looking for any pocket trainer updates

        ******************************
        molly
        **proud member of the calendar- CBW FOR LIFE !!**
        http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971
        www.oasisequestrian.com
        Co-founder of White Trash Dressage (WTD)
        http://www.lulu.com/mavw1971
        also available on Amazon.com
        http://www.cafepress.com/wtdressage

        Comment

        • #84
          [QUOTE]a pocket trainer client, simply looking for any pocket trainer updateQUOTE]

          Brilliantly said.

          Night all. Time for bed on the east coast.

          Comment

          • #85
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by El Grande Stimpendo:
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bip:
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by El Grande Stimpendo:
            The helmet debate never attempts to answer the only question that really matters: how much more dangerous is it to ride without a helmet than with a helmet.

            I suspect the real answer is 'not very much.'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
            Seatbelt people used to say this too.

            Good. What blood type are you? I'm looking for B+, preferable of east Indian descent, living within 4 hrs travel-time of Boston.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            Seatbelt safety is well-documented. Riding helmets? Not so much.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            Actually wearing a`seat belt can cause TBI (tramitic Brain Injury). I did agoogle and a yahoo search on this and it appears that even accordingto the ntsb that the amount of TBI's and deaths have increased a bit due to wearing seatbelts. I have a waver from the requirement of wearing a seatbelt because of my build,height,weight etc unless I grow 2-4 inches,put on 10-15 lbs and get larger bones I am the perfect canidate for decapation, broken neck, 'broken face',and if i put the shoulder strap behind my body and just using the lap belt ill be a whole heck of a lot shorter after the seat belt cuts me in half. Haveing a previous TBI I do not have the desire to have another one, my dr's agree with me and filled out the necessary form. So just because the 'widley published' reports state that 'seatbelts save lives, buckle up everytime' it is not always the truth it is really pretty scary what they dont tell you about them.

            Comment

            • #86
              About seatbelts in cars- It is the way it is simply because it is MORE likely to save you than harm you. Now, there are some nasty things that can happen when one gets in a wreck with a seatbelt and there are cases, such as someone mentioned of themselves, where they will more likely do harm than good. But in general, they are more likely do do more good than harm. My friend got in a wreck without a seatbelt on and it turned out to be a very, very great thing that she wasn't wearing one and I'm thinking even up to the level of serious-injury preventing- like that bad bad kind of serious injury, not a broken arm. However, I ALWAYS wear a seatbelt but was still getting settled in a car when I got in a wreck and the fact that I wasn't wearing one could have (more than likely would have) lost me mine if we'd slid two feet further. There are simply more risks in not wearing one OVERALL, in general, and it depends on case by caes, wreck by wreck.
              Now to tie that into the helmets- I'd say the cases are probably fewer than wearing seatbelts where it helps to not be wearing one, an example being vaulting (which I don't know much about but is what I've always read from vaulting companies). It's simply usually, in general, more of a risk not to be wearing one.

              -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
              Honored founder of the Teen Clique, Homeschool Clique, Boarding School Clique, and Proud to be a Mushroom Head/ Wear a Helmet Clique; member of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique
              <><

              Comment

              • #87
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bigbay:
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by El Grande Stimpendo:
                Statistics are what professionals use to assess risk.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                Actually, I'm really wondering what the statistics would show now. That study was done in early 90s, before there was an approved helmet rule for anyone, even juniors. The only people who had to wear mushroom hats were poor pony club misfits like me.

                But anyway, since helmets, especially approved ones, are much more de rigour now, I wonder if it's made a dent in the actuary numbers, or if horseback riding is just so inherently dangerous that helemts don't make a difference. Or if there's been a reduction in the number of "fatal head injuries" to just "head injuries".

                Sorry, I'm musing mostly to myself here.

                _ "It is good to be fine."_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                I doubt any valid numbers have been crunched before or after helmet laws. A few times I've seen what helmet crusaders call statistics here and it's been utter drivel. Stuff that would get you laughed out of the most introductory stats course is taken seriously in helmet land.

                Bea - you've posted about 7 times here. Why dont you share with us your take on helmets?

                Comment

                • #88
                  Has anyone every had a horse fall while riding? I have, it has happened to me three times over 30 years, twice at a fast canter. I can say that wearing a helmut has saved my life or at least serious injury. Also, I would not let my child ride at a barn where a helmut law was not enforced and especially where the trainer/coach was not riding a helmut. I think liablity laws will eventually force everyone to wear helmuts. You may say that you will not sue if you suffer serious head injury but your relatives who are stuck with you will certainly sue.

                  Comment

                  • #89
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by xegeba:
                    Okay, Grande, let's talk about helmets. I read somewhere that auto- racing and equestrian sports were the top two most dangerous sports one could involve themselves with. Agree?(I'm sure you will let me know if you don't).All race car drivers wear helmets(however, they have to if they want to get behind the wheel) Surely you would agree that if you are jumping,. that it would be fool-hardy to not wear a helmet(no matter how good you are,Grande)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    I read that more people were killed skiing than in any other sport. I guess it's just the particular report you read.

                    Tosca

                    Comment

                    • #90
                      I think the OP was just looking for a way to ask a friend (and trainer) to please look after their safety because the OP happens to care about this trainer. I don't think the OP was looking for a way to open a helmet issue debate...nor did I see her mention anywhere that she was looking for an Irish Troll Attorney.
                      While I might be a helmet always person myself...I'm not commenting on the debate of riding with a helmet vs riding without a helmet. But to the OP:
                      Maybe if you sit down and chat with her over lunhc...or even buy a nice friendship type Hallmark card and write in it how you worry about her health she might change her mind about wearing a helmet. Sometimes all it takes is for someone to know someone cares for you to make a change in something.
                      Good luck.

                      Equine Crash Test Dummy
                      Member of: Non-GPA Clique
                      Auto Release Clique
                      Connecticut Clique
                      Helmet Nazi Clique
                      You jump in the saddle,
                      Hold onto the bridle!
                      Jump in the line!
                      ...Belefonte

                      Comment

                      • #91
                        There is a thread on this forum about the number of concussions people have had, in spite of wearing approved helmets. The helmets did not save them from a serious injury. Maybe, and I do say maybe, the concussions would have been more severe without an approved helmet, but we'll never know that. At any rate, as these people still sustained a serious injury while wearing approved helmets, Should anyone take the risk of riding at all? The logical conclusion to make is "no".

                        I remember reading a statement by a woman who fell off of a horse that she shouldn't have been riding. (It was too much horse for her). She sustained severe head injuries in spite of wearing a helmet, said that in her opinion, nobody should ride at all. Should she have the right to make this decision for everyone, or should each individual have the right to decide what risks he wants to take?

                        Riding can be very risky. People have sustained spinal injuries, internal injuries, and crippling injuries to the arms and legs. People do die in riding accidents from things other than head injuries. You can't protect yourself from all the possibilities.

                        Haing stated all this, I don't honestly think riding is as dangerous as it is made out to be. I will continue to ride, and wear my unapproved helmet.

                        Tosca

                        Comment

                        • #92
                          hi tosca--i started that thread as a girl in my barn suffered concussion number four friday night after not wearing a helmet----and then went on a trail ride on sunday and didnt wear a helmet--so i was curious how many is too many, besides the obvious answer of none....

                          also in that thread i was horrified to read of helmets cracked up the back etc..had that rider in particular not ben wearing a helemt, it would have been their head cracked up the back

                          no helmets dont automatically enscone us in a suit of armour but it does provide some portection...as do vests, etc

                          ******************************
                          molly
                          **proud member of the calendar- CBW FOR LIFE !!**
                          http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971
                          www.oasisequestrian.com
                          Co-founder of White Trash Dressage (WTD)
                          http://www.lulu.com/mavw1971
                          also available on Amazon.com
                          http://www.cafepress.com/wtdressage

                          Comment

                          • #93
                            As long as people are sniping on this thread, I'm going to join...

                            It's HELMET, not HELMUT.

                            You may continue.

                            _____________________________________
                            Any coupon works! Beware of paper cuts!

                            Comment

                            • #94
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horse_poor:
                              hi tosca--i started that thread as a girl in my barn suffered concussion number four friday night after not wearing a helmet----and then went on a trail ride on sunday and didnt wear a helmet--so i was curious how many is too many, besides the obvious answer of none....

                              also in that thread i was horrified to read of helmets cracked up the back etc..had that rider in particular not ben wearing a helemt, it would have been their head cracked up the back

                              no helmets dont automatically enscone us in a suit of armour but it does provide some portection...as do vests, etc

                              <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              Hi back at you!

                              Your thread was very interesting, and I too was horrified at all the concussions. I've never had one. I would have to question the safety of the approved helmets if they are breaking so easily.

                              Tosca

                              Comment

                              • #95
                                so out of curiousity i did a google on how helmets are approved... here is the link---seems like pretty rigourous testing and they use the gravity force of which most head injuries occur for a helmet to offer protection

                                i guess my take is i would rather have a helmet split rather than my head

                                ******************************
                                molly
                                **proud member of the calendar- CBW FOR LIFE !!**
                                http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971
                                www.oasisequestrian.com
                                Co-founder of White Trash Dressage (WTD)
                                http://www.lulu.com/mavw1971
                                also available on Amazon.com
                                http://www.cafepress.com/wtdressage

                                Comment

                                • #96
                                  An approved helmet is meant to absorb the shock that would otherwise be transferred to your head. So it doesn't really surprise me that one would "break" on impact, although I didn't read the thread in question.

                                  For whatever reason, head injuries in equestrian sports were not studied very intensively until about the last 15 years. IIRC, the U.S. Pony Clubs began collecting the first sets of statistics after they mandated approved helmets back in the late '80s. Their stats showed that head injuries at PC functions went down after approved helmets were mandated. Some of the other studies that I'm aware of have looked at the stats from emergency room admissions.

                                  Obviously those kinds of studies are not iron-clad. But I kind of doubt we're going to see anyone stepping up to fund a really big epidemiological study... I don't even know who'd do it. A helmet company? The USEF?

                                  The testing process for approved helmets, however, is pretty darn stringent. The forces transferred to the head are measured in a variety of different "falls." The SEI laboratory is an independent lab, and tests the helmets to be sure they meet the ASTM standards. ASTM also sets standards for a variety of other safety equipment, not just riding helmets.

                                  If you want to reduce your odds of sustaining a serious head injury, wear an approved helmet. If you want to take your chances, by all means, do so, but please don't spread misinformation.

                                  Comment

                                  • #97
                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:
                                    If you want to reduce your odds of sustaining a serious head injury, wear an approved helmet. If you want to take your chances, by all means, do so, but please don't spread misinformation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    If you mean me, I don't believe I spread misinformation and I take offense at this suggestion. Many posters here have stated that their helmets split on impact. I also said that it was my personal belief that approved helmets are not any safer than unapproved.

                                    Tosca

                                    Comment

                                    • #98
                                      Oh, as an aside, I think the WORST statistical analyses I've seen have been on THIS board, when someone who doesn't want to wear an approved helmet justifies their decision by saying "Well, my friend Susie had a REALLY bad fall once while wearing a hunt cap, and she was just fine! So I don't see why I need to wear one." Gee, what is that, a study of one?

                                      Comment

                                      • #99
                                        Tosca, my point was that the helmets are DESIGNED to absorb impact. By implying that helmets are not safe because they split, you're spreading misinformation.

                                        That'd be like saying that styrofoam doesn't protect fragile stuff because it squishes so easily.

                                        Comment

                                        • #100
                                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:
                                          Tosca, my point was that the helmets are DESIGNED to absorb impact. By implying that helmets are not safe because they split, you're spreading misinformation.

                                          That'd be like saying that styrofoam doesn't protect fragile stuff because it squishes so easily.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          I said I would have to question the safety of the helmets. Am I not allowed to question the party line? If they break enough to fall off, or if they break into pieces they are not very protective are they? More facts are needed here.

                                          Tosca

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