Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You're responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it--details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums' policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it's understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users' profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses -- Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it's related to a horse for sale, regardless of who's selling it, it doesn't belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions -- Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services -- Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products -- While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements -- Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be "bumped" excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues -- Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators' discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you'd rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user's membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

"Convenience euthanasia" question

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    "Convenience euthanasia" question

    In reading over the dangerous horse euthanasia threads, I noticed the term "convenience euthanasia" coming up a lot. That made me wonder...

    How do YOU define "convenience euthanasia?" Does it always have a negative connotation?

    For me, having worked primarily with rescues over the years, I suppose that I have a more positive view of owners who take the responsibility of putting an animal down when they can't care for it (for whatever reason) as opposed to those who try to find the horse another home. A caveat: I'm thinking primarily of elderly horses who aren't strong candidates for finding a new home, but are still healthy. Young, fit horses are another story in my mind.

    Just curious to hear what others think...I'd be particularly interested to hear the opinions of practicing vets.

    #2
    I think it depends. If you MUST rehome an animal and you have exhausted all the options and you cannot keep it (severe allergies that can't be treated, you've lost your home, you're severely ill or maybe even terminal and will not be there, you MUST move and your only option cannot accommodate the animal) then what's more responsible, putting the horse or dog or cat or whatever down? Leaving them at the pound (with small animals)? Dumping them by the side of the road?

    For me it has a negative connotation if you do it because the animal's just too much work, you got a dog and it turns out they don't use the toilet like a human, your kids lost interest in the kitty after a week, you discovered horses aren't bicycles, etc. Then I say suck it up and take care of it, don't kill it because you're stupid. Or FIND IT ANOTHER HOME.
    Author Page
    Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
    Steampunk Sweethearts

    Comment


      #3
      I think the term is pretty negative, but the action isn't always bad. Like, euthanizing a pasture sound horse if you can't find a suitable home for it and can't keep it. Or any horse, for that matter, but if it's sound and healthy you better be absolutely out of money and absolutely be unable to find a home. I don't think putting down a horse who is truly dangerous (provided all measures have been taken to retrain it) is bad. I also don't think euthanizing a horse rather than providing extensive veterinary services (like surgery) is bad.

      Euthanizing a horse because you're tired of him, or because you're just so sure that no one else can handle him, or whatever, is not okay, though.
      exploring the relationship between horse and human

      Comment


        #4
        Someone i know and really care for put her 2 horses down as she was getting on in years and didn't feel anyone could take care of them as she did.I still feel it was the wrong decision.She never asked any one if they could take them on.I always thought that the older mare would end her days here,she was about 20,and her daughter maybe 12.Both beautiful horses with so much life ahead of them.If there are NO alternatives then euthanasia is a viable option,but in this case it was wrong.
        mm

        Comment


          #5
          I really think that it depends on the circumstances. I own a 25 year old gelding that is servicably sound for light work. I am by no means wealthy but have the means to take care of him with much grumbling from my husband about the $$$. But neither myself or the DH (despite the concern over the $) would consider putting him down because he is healthy, happy, and enjoys his life. I have had people suggest to me that I put him down so that I can afford to do more things with my other horse. I wouldn't do that because I will not euthanize an animal simply because he is an inconvenience. If his health were to decline or something bad *knocking on wood* were to happen, I would carefully weigh my options. But in the meantime, my horses are my responsibilty and I take that very seriously. But I wouldn't judge someone else who had to make that decision. I think that it is a very personal decision and in the end, unless you are standing in that other person's shoes, it's hard to judge whether it was convenience or in the animal's best interest Today's economy adds a whole new issue to rehoming expensive lawn ornaments

          Comment


            #6
            I have a totally blind gelding, he's been blind I guess for 4 years now. As long as I am able to care for him correctly he will have a home for ever with ME. But, God forbid, anything should happen where I can no longer care for him or lose the farm, he will be put down. I will NOT have him have an uncertain future with anyone else. I don't care how well I've known them, how much money they have and that they care well for the animals they have. Once he is out of my hands his life and fate is out of my hands. I can not bear to think of him suffering somewhere. As much as we fight I love that stupid (actually very smart) horse with all my heart. It would hurt, hell I'm tearing up now just thinking about it! But I would do it.

            Had to put an old mare down with heaves and a gimpy hip, she was about 28 or so. I didn't want to do it, but she was starting to breathe hard again (after over a year with no symptoms.) I still feel guilty about that. Vet and boarders assured me it was time and one boarder told me under no uncertain terms she thought I should have put her down at the beginning of winter and was very surprised that I didn't. She did well through the winter though, the signs though started I think it was in January and we let her go.

            I also think if someone has a horse that is not servicably sound, they have been taking care of it for many years, and decide to put them down, there is no harm in that. You don't marry the horse. Yes you are obligated to care for it, and part of their life is their death in your hands. Horses have no concept of tomorrow or next week. They only know now. Hungry, eat. Tired, sleep. Energy, play. That is our burden to carry. If they had a good life for a few years, hand graze them, give them they're favorite treats (Babydoll when I put her down I literally opened the treat box and let her eat all she wanted, I fed her apples and carrots till she said no thanks I'm full! I wasn't going to worry about colic...made me so sad) scratch them in their favorite places, groom them softly then have the vet put them down.
            I want a signature but I have nothing original to say except: "STHU and RIDE!!!

            Wonderful COTHER's I've met: belleellis, stefffic, snkstacres and janedoe726.

            Comment


              #7
              I have heard the term used more than once on this board by people who believe that no horse should be put down, short of eminent deathof the already dying horse. So, I have heard it used as a "put down" name calling tactic, similar to the "slaughterette" slur.

              For that reason, when people use the term -it usually gets my hackles up.
              Luistano Stallion standing for 2013: Wolverine UVF
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IZPHDzgX3s

              Comment


                #8
                I dont know, I'm one of those people who euth'd her dangerous horse after trying to retrain her for 4 years. Ultimately she had a physical issue and was going downhill fast. If she didn't have that issue i'd probably have kept trying, she would've stayed in training, and maybe would've come out the other end ok. I won't ever know.

                But IMO, there is nothing convienent about choosing euthanasia, even for a troubled horse. I spent a really long time grappling with it, talking it over with many professionals- vets, farriers, trainers, and even a human therapist. Playing God is no fun, and maybe I'm not the norm, maybe its the Catholic guilt engrained in me, but it sucked, and it still sucks to this day, I think about her everyday.

                Maybe some people do use it as a disposal service- but everyone I've known to go that route it has been a heck of a road and the final decision not taken lightly at all.

                Financially, it is expensive- here, anyway, where it can cost $800-$1200 to euth and pick up the body. I don't consider that cheap or convienent.

                I also agree with those who say that euthanasia is better than the trip to the slaughter house.
                My blog: Change of Pace - Retraining a standardbred via dressage

                Comment


                  #9
                  Euthanasia is preferable to chronic fear, starvation, intentional (or unintentional) neglect, and abuse.

                  We have a responsibility to our horses. If a horse is not useable as a riding (driving etc) or breeding horse due to high maintenance health problems, chronic physical or behavioral unsoundness, infertility or advanced age, there is a much much higher likelihood it will end up in a bad situation. Every time a horse like this changes hands it is at risk.

                  In the absence of LOCAL humane slaughter, euthanasia is the responsible choice when this sort of horse can no longer be maintained properly by its owner for whatever reason. IMHO rehoming a horse like this is irresponsible.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    A girlfriend in her 60's had two mature TB's many years ago. The 25 year old was permanantly lame and his 23 pasture mate was sound. She made the decision to let the 25 year old one go and then went ahead and had the 23 year old mare go at the same time. She said the mare would be frantic without her buddy and she was mostly retired now anyway. Hard decision but she made the decision with her head and all the facts laid out in front of her.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      For me "convenience euthanasia" was the Bichon mix puppy that was dropped off for euthanasia one day when I was working ER because they couldn't housetrain it......found that one a new home.....things like that. Young perfectly healthy dog.....normal dog behavior. Or too much shedding, or "I'm moving".....etc.

                      Smaller animals with medical issues aren't always a convenience euthanasia - some things are costly to treat and there's no guarantee if you treat that you will "fix" the problem. There are grey areas so for me it depends on the specific circumstance.

                      Horses are different - you can't control where they will end up after you have them unless you euthanize them, so sometimes it's the right answer......again it depends for me, but it's a lot harder (and more expensive) to deal with a 1000lb animal so it's harder for me to call equine euthanasia a "convenience" euthanasia.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I am looking at putting down a beautiful arabian,

                        He is only 15. 14 HH,.

                        Superbly trained,western,I have foxhunted him,and super trail horse,nothing spooks him.But he will kick at other horses on the trail,if you dont keep an eye on him. Goes first or last.

                        I can no longer ride him,he kills my back,I now ride a little spotted saddle horse.

                        He has to be kept separate from other horses,he was not cut until he was 10 or 11,he needs to be handled as a stallion.

                        When turned out he is VERY territorial,but is easy to catch,comes straight to the gate.

                        Quiet to clip,trim groom wash .....

                        Loves attention,could be ridden by a kid[with professional trainer] or old person like me.

                        He will nip.

                        I have tried to find him a home but have given up.

                        people think I am crazy when I tell them his problems and think they know better,till their horses get hurt by him.

                        He has just come back home again,I cant go through that again.

                        It is very sad,but I am too old to break up horsey fights.

                        I will not allow him to end up in a slaughter lot.
                        \"I have lived my life-it is nearly done-.I have played the game all round;But I freely admit that the best of my fun I owe it to Horse and Hound\".

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I know of someone who is considering putting her horse down for fear of where it will end up because of his behavioral habits.

                          She has worked with several different instructors/trainers and this horse bucks and bucks hard to get her off. She has exhausted all efforts and he remains the same.

                          She doesn't want to sell him, and pass on his issues to someone else. Is afraid to send him to a sale barn as she is afraid he will be shipped to auction and then onwards...

                          The owner feels euthanasia is more humane than where this horse will probably end up.
                          MnToBe Twinkle Star: "Twinkie"
                          http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...wo/009_17A.jpg

                          Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

                          Comment

                            Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Waterwitch View Post
                            Euthanasia is preferable to chronic fear, starvation, intentional (or unintentional) neglect, and abuse.

                            We have a responsibility to our horses. If a horse is not useable as a riding (driving etc) or breeding horse due to high maintenance health problems, chronic physical or behavioral unsoundness, infertility or advanced age, there is a much much higher likelihood it will end up in a bad situation. Every time a horse like this changes hands it is at risk.

                            In the absence of LOCAL humane slaughter, euthanasia is the responsible choice when this sort of horse can no longer be maintained properly by its owner for whatever reason. IMHO rehoming a horse like this is irresponsible.
                            Thanks, Waterwitch. You've summed up my feelings on the subject well; I've just been surprised at the vitriolic way the word seems to have been bandied about in recent threads. Wondered if I'd missed a culture shift or something, .

                            Comment


                              #15
                              If someone wants to put their animal down no matter what the reason, they have the right to do so. It is not hurting the animal or abusive.
                              Pro Slaughter
                              Anti Parelli

                              Comment


                                #16
                                if the animal is healthy and young with no apparent problems,it is like playing god.
                                mm

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by myrna View Post
                                  if the animal is healthy and young with no apparent problems,it is like playing god.
                                  How is it ever NOT playing God? If the animal is 30, in poor health and could go any day now, you're still playing God by deciding it will die this day and not tomorrow or next Tuesday.

                                  I don't see 'playing God' as being a bad thing. Anyone who takes another being into their care has pretty much signed up to do just that.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    I wish there wasn't such a stigma attached to euthanizing unwanted horses.

                                    Ideally we could all find them caring, loving homes that give them everything they need. But there is just not. enough. homes. out there.

                                    So if you can't care for your horse anymore, and you're not 100% positive that you can find a home that would be willing to care for them adequately, then it would be best just to put them down.

                                    It is much more courageous to make the decision to end a horse's life humanely, kindly, and with dignity, than it is to schlep the horse off to some undetermined fate. Because most likely, that fate will not be a good one. Too many horses end up abused, neglected or in slaughterhouses because their originally well-meaning owners convinced themselves that a home was a good one, or that a horse would have an OK shot at auction- rather than being strong enough to make the harder decision that would ultimately in all likelihood be in the horse's best interest.
                                    Last edited by breakthru; Apr. 9, 2010, 12:12 PM.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Well said breakthru. There are only so many homes and too many horses. Just not enough resources to go around. I also think this is better then slaughter or ending up in a bad situation.
                                      Eight Fences Farm. Mansfield, MA

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        waterwitch and breakthru have stated my position on the issue quite well.

                                        Although I have not ever found myself in the position to have one euthanized for anything except health reasons, I certainly would do that before I'd send an old horse or one with lameness or temperament issues off to a very uncertain (likely bad) future.
                                        Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X