KY Bill to Create Pro Slaughter Board Passes Sen

[JSwan]

Actually, I did watch it. And I stand by what I have always written and said.

There is no excuse for animal abuse. Period. Prosecute abusers and throw away the key as far as I'm concerned. I'll shed no tears.

However, if you would like to know who is partially responsible for the suffering in that video - look in the mirror.

You, and every single anti-slaughter advocate in the United States is directly responsible for every equine that now travels outside US jurisdiction to be slaughtered. HSUS, ASPCA, PETA - all those orgs (and more) are also responsible.

WTF did any of you think was going to happen when the US plants closed? Let me refresh your memory. Plenty of people and agencies told you what would happen.

Anti-slaughter advocates insisted that it would not be economically viable to transport across the border - so horses would not go to slaughter and the unwanted/excess horses would be absorbed in the US somehow.

How - NONE of you knew. NONE of you planned. NONE of you listened to reasoned, cogent arguments that we could NOT absorb these horses. Just close the plants and voila - problem solved. When the last plant closed y'all cheered. Yahoo - problem solved. I remember one person even posting that they didn't care what happened to the horses as long as they weren't slaughtered in Illinois. Bravo. How... humane.

Many people and agencies stated repeatedly that closing plants would merely force our horses over the border - out of our jurisdiction. And it would create an entire new industry in those countries - industries that would lobby to keep the business. An international business. Anti-slaughter advocates jeered.

So look in the mirror to know who is responsible. Do you think anyone in the US can just snap their fingers and fix issues in a different COUNTRY?

I'm frickin sick of all you holier than thou My Little Pony people and your rose colored glasses. Animal welfare is SERIOUS business. Little activist fundraising campaigns have REAL LIFE consequences. We're seeing those consequences now - exacerbated by a global economic downturn.

So go ahead and keep smiting everyone with your gigantic halo. I don't give a damn. Some of us are too busy trying to figure out how to fix the damn MESS you people keep making. Yes - someone has to clean up your effing messes because y'all are too busy patting yourselves on the damn backs.

It's the so called "activist" who responds to a HSUS action alert like Pavlov's dog. So look in the mirror - anti-slaughter activists are responsible for what is happening now.

Not quite the animal welfare victory you wanted - but you can't wash that blood off your hands. You earned it.

We're not the ones who buried our heads in the sand.

You still haven't said if you've watched the videos linked on the first page.
Come to think of it, neither have the other pro slaughter people on this thread.
Kind of hard to say it's humane if you bury your head in the sand.

[jetsmom]

Actually, I did watch it. And I stand by what I have always written and said.

There is no excuse for animal abuse. Period. Prosecute abusers and throw away the key as far as I'm concerned. I'll shed no tears.

However, if you would like to know who is partially responsible for the suffering in that video - look in the mirror.

You, and every single anti-slaughter advocate in the United States is directly responsible for every equine that now travels outside US jurisdiction to be slaughtered. HSUS, ASPCA, PETA - all those orgs (and more) are also responsible.

WTF did any of you think was going to happen when the US plants closed? Let me refresh your memory. Plenty of people and agencies told you what would happen.

Anti-slaughter advocates insisted that it would not be economically viable to transport across the border - so horses would not go to slaughter and the unwanted/excess horses would be absorbed in the US somehow.

How - NONE of you knew. NONE of you planned. NONE of you listened to reasoned, cogent arguments that we could NOT absorb these horses. Just close the plants and voila - problem solved. When the last plant closed y'all cheered. Yahoo - problem solved. I remember one person even posting that they didn't care what happened to the horses as long as they weren't slaughtered in Illinois. Bravo. How... humane.

Many people and agencies stated repeatedly that closing plants would merely force our horses over the border - out of our jurisdiction. And it would create an entire new industry in those countries - industries that would lobby to keep the business. An international business. Anti-slaughter advocates jeered.

So look in the mirror to know who is responsible. Do you think anyone in the US can just snap their fingers and fix issues in a different COUNTRY?

I'm frickin sick of all you holier than thou My Little Pony people and your rose colored glasses. Animal welfare is SERIOUS business. Little activist fundraising campaigns have REAL LIFE consequences. We're seeing those consequences now - exacerbated by a global economic downturn.

So go ahead and keep smiting everyone with your gigantic halo. I don't give a damn. Some of us are too busy trying to figure out how to fix the damn MESS you people keep making. Yes - someone has to clean up your effing messes because y'all are too busy patting yourselves on the damn backs.

It's the so called "activist" who responds to a HSUS action alert like Pavlov's dog. So look in the mirror - anti-slaughter activists are responsible for what is happening now.

Not quite the animal welfare victory you wanted - but you can't wash that blood off your hands. You earned it.

We're not the ones who buried our heads in the sand.

Canada has more stringent regulations than we did for horse slaughter. Those 2 SH in the videos were touted as "State of the art" facilities.
You're kidding yourself if you think we did it any better.

I don't see it ever improving here, even if they opened more SH, because we don't (as a general rule) eat horsemeat, and the process is usually kept hidden from the public. There are still people who are surprised when I mention that many horses here in the US are sent to slaughter for human consumption overseas. There is generally more of a concern when they show cattle being treated poorly, since we do eat beef.

[Jumphigh83]

Well said JSwan

[Kennysadsack]

OMG, CLUNK...I agree with Jswan???? I sure do...[edit]..meanwhile the horses suffer not for a minute but for a veryyyyyyyyyyyyy long time. Unbelievable!

[jetsmom]

OMG, CLUNK...I agree with Jswan???? I sure do...must be nice to hide in your little fantasy world of puppies,rainbows,and lollipops Jetsmom..meanwhile the horses suffer not for a minute but for a veryyyyyyyyyyyyy long time. Unbelievable!

Troll much??

[Alagirl]

Troll much??

Because when they run out of facts, they revert to name calling and insults to deflect from a weak position.

what was that?

[Nojacketrequired]

Jswan...bravo. You say it better than I do.

Slaughter isn't going to stop anytime soon.
We need to spend our energies on making it BETTER and more humane NOW.

Then, if that is what the individual feels they want to do, steadily work away at a long term plan to do away with it.

NJR

[Alagirl]

Jswan...bravo. You say it better than I do.

Slaughter isn't going to stop anytime soon.
We need to spend our energies on making it BETTER and more humane NOW.

Then, if that is what the individual feels they want to do, steadily work away at a long term plan to do away with it.

NJR

Hmm, been saying that for years. But I suppose there is no instant gratification in it. Takes more than the attention span of a gnat to plan that far out (and frankly, I doubt it will end any time soon)

For the time being I settle for just a straight forward line of arguments, and not a bunch of BS that is contradicted by the same person 2 posts later.

You can eat the cake you have, but once you eat it it's gone...you can't have it both ways.

[aucowwy]

Actually, I did watch it. And I stand by what I have always written and said.

There is no excuse for animal abuse. Period. Prosecute abusers and throw away the key as far as I'm concerned. I'll shed no tears.

However, if you would like to know who is partially responsible for the suffering in that video - look in the mirror.

You, and every single anti-slaughter advocate in the United States is directly responsible for every equine that now travels outside US jurisdiction to be slaughtered. HSUS, ASPCA, PETA - all those orgs (and more) are also responsible.

WTF did any of you think was going to happen when the US plants closed? Let me refresh your memory. Plenty of people and agencies told you what would happen.

Anti-slaughter advocates insisted that it would not be economically viable to transport across the border - so horses would not go to slaughter and the unwanted/excess horses would be absorbed in the US somehow.

How - NONE of you knew. NONE of you planned. NONE of you listened to reasoned, cogent arguments that we could NOT absorb these horses. Just close the plants and voila - problem solved. When the last plant closed y'all cheered. Yahoo - problem solved. I remember one person even posting that they didn't care what happened to the horses as long as they weren't slaughtered in Illinois. Bravo. How... humane.

Many people and agencies stated repeatedly that closing plants would merely force our horses over the border - out of our jurisdiction. And it would create an entire new industry in those countries - industries that would lobby to keep the business. An international business. Anti-slaughter advocates jeered.

So look in the mirror to know who is responsible. Do you think anyone in the US can just snap their fingers and fix issues in a different COUNTRY?

I'm frickin sick of all you holier than thou My Little Pony people and your rose colored glasses. Animal welfare is SERIOUS business. Little activist fundraising campaigns have REAL LIFE consequences. We're seeing those consequences now - exacerbated by a global economic downturn.

So go ahead and keep smiting everyone with your gigantic halo. I don't give a damn. Some of us are too busy trying to figure out how to fix the damn MESS you people keep making. Yes - someone has to clean up your effing messes because y'all are too busy patting yourselves on the damn backs.

It's the so called "activist" who responds to a HSUS action alert like Pavlov's dog. So look in the mirror - anti-slaughter activists are responsible for what is happening now.

Not quite the animal welfare victory you wanted - but you can't wash that blood off your hands. You earned it.

We're not the ones who buried our heads in the sand.

I could not have said it better myself. This is everything I have been trying to say and more-- you can read my mind!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aucowwy]

Canada has more stringent regulations than we did for horse slaughter. Those 2 SH in the videos were touted as "State of the art" facilities.
You're kidding yourself if you think we did it any better.

I don't see it ever improving here, even if they opened more SH, because we don't (as a general rule) eat horsemeat, and the process is usually kept hidden from the public. There are still people who are surprised when I mention that many horses here in the US are sent to slaughter for human consumption overseas. There is generally more of a concern when they show cattle being treated poorly, since we do eat beef.

Ok- if the US was better than Canada then would it not be better for them to go to SH in the US not Canada. Also, I am going to be flamed for this but I would eat horse meat. I just don;t because it is illegal over here. People don't eat horse meat over here because it is not part of our culture. If it were, we would eat hrose meat like beef, but I do think if it were legal to eat horse meat over here people would eat it- maybe not a great percentage but some would.

[jetsmom]

Ok- if the US was better than Canada then would it not be better for them to go to SH in the US not Canada. Also, I am going to be flamed for this but I would eat horse meat. I just don;t because it is illegal over here. People don't eat horse meat over here because it is not part of our culture. If it were, we would eat hrose meat like beef, but I do think if it were legal to eat horse meat over here people would eat it- maybe not a great percentage but some would.

But the US wasn't better than Canada. The SH here had years of knowing that they were being scrutinized for inhumane practices and numerous EPA violations (which remain unpaid), and still never made any attempt to make it better. The Humane transport act in the US was a joke, with virtually no enforcement. If the SH really cared about keeping their businesses open there would have been some attempt to make things better. Temple Grandin was never hired by the horse slaughterhouses or had her ideas put into place.
Even our cattle/pig/poultry SH do not enforce the Humane Handling act. If they don't do it for the animals we eat, they aren't going to do it for the ones we don't. See the link below for testimony before Congress about the Humane handling act violations. Click on testimony link at the bottom for DR Dean Wyatt, a USDA vet.

http://oversight.house.gov/index.php...4817&Itemid=31

.

[vickitobin]

JSwan, good spin. Always dismiss owner/breeder responsibility and never address the cause of excess horses. Never fix the problem but cover it with a band-aid. Slaughter does not control the population. The demand is down which means less horses are being slaughtered. They slaughter the number they need, not what is available. Add to that overseas consumers awareness that our horses are not safe for human consumption and the demand will continue to decrease.

Always blame everyone but the person sending their horse to slaughter. WE are not the irresponsible breeders that don’t understand supply and demand. The AQHA alone registers over 135,000 horses every year and what a surprise, the leading breed going to slaughter are quarter horses (see USDA stats). The slaughter horses are not 1 horse from 100,000 owners.

Jetsmom is correct. The US plants were just as bad as Mexico and Canada, if not worse. Just pull a few FOIAs and read/view the investigations. I don’t understand why Mexico and Canada are such an issue now. Where were the complaints when thousands of horses were shipped to Canada and Mexico when the US plants were open? Where were the complaints about the long hauls across country when the plants were open? How about abuse and neglect complaints when the plants were open? The largest case of horse abuse in the US occurred in 2005 when all three plants were in operation.

Are you aware that when Cavel burned down in 2002 that neglect decreased in IL and began increasing when they reopened? Did it ever occur to you that owners are hanging on to horses they can’t care for because they are in fear if they sell them or donate them they’ll end up on a slaughter truck? Just call rescues and you’ll hear that over and over again. They can’t care for their horse but don’t want them ending up going to slaughter.

With all the investigations and complaints, not one attempt was made to change anything. Even to this day, the slightest change such as banning double deckers for horses is met with opposition. Dallas Crown still owes Kaufman TX $180,000 in environmental fines.

[Kennysadsack]

I'm still waiting to hear from Jetsmom.Fivehorses,etc. what their solution is for all the unwanted horses??? Large euth clinics? Who is going to pay for that and the disposal? Would it not be in the best interests of the horses that you put your money where your mouth is and fight for strict rules and regulations on how the slaughter is done? Or, if you can't bring yourself to agree to that, then have a REALISTIC plan on what to do with the large number of horses who are not wanted and not being cared for? There is a TB breeder who lives in a wealthy equine community. Her farm is not able to be seen from the road. There are 4 horses there who are being neglected. Mares due to foal who are still nursing their yearlings, an older mare that is a rack of bones, all of them malnourished and standing in a sand lot with very little to eat. They are lucky though, they get fed just enough to keep them alive. There are many others that are getting nothing to eat. Now do you think that life is better then going to slaughter. Dead is dead. Suffering goes on a very long time when you are starving.

[jetsmom]

I'm still waiting to hear from Jetsmom.Fivehorses,etc. what their solution is for all the unwanted horses??? Large euth clinics? Who is going to pay for that and the disposal? Would it not be in the best interests of the horses that you put your money where your mouth is and fight for strict rules and regulations on how the slaughter is done? Or, if you can't bring yourself to agree to that, then have a REALISTIC plan on what to do with the large number of horses who are not wanted and not being cared for? There is a TB breeder who lives in a wealthy equine community. Her farm is not able to be seen from the road. There are 4 horses there who are being neglected. Mares due to foal who are still nursing their yearlings, an older mare that is a rack of bones, all of them malnourished and standing in a sand lot with very little to eat. They are lucky though, they get fed just enough to keep them alive. There are many others that are getting nothing to eat. Now do you think that life is better then going to slaughter. Dead is dead. Suffering goes on a very long time when you are starving.

The people starving horses are generally not the ones who send to slaughter. Hoarders and people like the TB breeder who used to be a member here that starved a bunch, do not send to slaughter. Even when Dallas Crowne and Beltex were open, there were large seizures of starved horses from the same county DC was in, plus in surrounding counties.
My suggestion was to implement an export fee of around 1500.00 on any horse that leaves the country. Ban the transport/export to slaughter as well as SH in the US. Make it refundable on microchipped horses that return within 6 months to allow for showing out of the country. Use the money received to be divided up among all of the State vet offices to be used for a euth fund and hay fund for needy owners.
NAFTA shouldn't be affected, because currently it costs about 1600.00 to import a horse from Mexico to the US. I checked on it because there was a time when I wanted to show Jet at some Jumper shows in Mex, but it was cost prohibitive to get him back over to the US.
Sales out of the country wouldn't be affected hugely, because lets face it...if you are shopping for a 50,000. horse and find one outside of your country, 1500.00 is a drop in the bucket for getting him to you. People import horses to the US all of the time and pay a lot more in fees to get them here.
If you are buying a 1000.00 horse, chances are, you can find something suitable in your own country for that price, if making it 2500.00 would put it out of reach.
We slaughtered more than 300,000 horses in a yr back in the late 80's. It dropped more than 70,000 in one year, and kept dropping until it was at a low of about 45,000 in the 2000's. There was no huge unwanted horse explosion/neglected horse explosion. It is absorbed. We are only talking about 1% of the horse population going to slaughter. If there were no outlet for breeders to sell off large numbers of THEIR unwanted horses, then breeding would slow down. It's just a fact of business.

[Scruffy]

I disagree Jet. Not all of the people who have starving horses are hoarders. When they closed down the slaughter houses here and the price of horses dropped to $50 there was a guy who had 3 very thin horses in his back lot. We went over to ask if we could have them and he said no, he was waiting for the slaughterhouses to open back up and the prices to go back up. He also added that " he had way too much money into the horses to just get nothing for them". Another man I know would not euth his old,crippled, and/or sick schoolies because he had to get his last $200 out of them. Now, because of the closings, those poor old horses who taught hundreds of kids how to ride get a long, horrible trip to Mexico or Canada.

Your plan sounds wonderful BUT as it has been proven time and time again the gov't will not use the money as it was intended (social security is one example). That is reality and I think the govt. has gotten wayyyyyyyyy too big and needs to be smacked down not be given more control.

[aucowwy]

There is no where for these horses to go now, so YES many are starving or just let free like stray dogs. Rescues can't take them and noone can afford to euthanize them or dispose of them. Some people won't put a bullet to their head either, but you still have to dispose of them. Also large animal rescues are very diff from small animal rescues. They do not euthanize a horse unless they have to and it takes alot more money and land to operate them properly.

Also wanted to add that the closing of the slaughter houses effect the whole industry because the price of a horse went down. A horse used to atleast be worth what you could get at the sale for it and priced up. So not that that is gone the a nice riding horse the meat guy might bid 300 on and a person looking to ride it might outbid for 400 is only worth 50 dollars becuase the meat guy go longer bids on them. Then makes the price of other horses less valuable also.

[Alagirl]

Also wanted to add that the closing of the slaughter houses effect the whole industry because the price of a horse went down. A horse used to atleast be worth what you could get at the sale for it and priced up. So not that that is gone the a nice riding horse the meat guy might bid 300 on and a person looking to ride it might outbid for 400 is only worth 50 dollars becuase the meat guy go longer bids on them. Then makes the price of other horses less valuable also.

Not to mention at 50 bucks, a lot of horses went to people who shouldn't own a chia pet

[ZiggyStardust]

That is reality and I think the govt. has gotten wayyyyyyyyy too big and needs to be smacked down not be given more control.

So who do you propose should regulate and enforce humane slaughter?

[cgray0983]

Well said JSwan.

Wow, so walking my arthritic and rehabbing horse out of his 5 acre pasture is the same as slaughtering him becuase I make his walk down a decline that may perhaps be hurting his arthritic leg? Better send him to be slaughtered...

Sorry he can't jump anymore and earn his keep, I more than anything wish he could!

Nope. Just "horsey women".

Horsey women usually board their horsie, but might keep their horsie at home on a "farmette". Either way, their horsies don't have to do anything to actuall earn their keep or justify their existence beyond being surrogate deities/spouses/offspring. Occasionally, Horsey women do things for money in the horse buisness, but it rarely provides their sole means of support.

I am not anti-slaughter NOR am I liberal (don't let the location get you I am from the North East US). I work in finance and do what I can for my now semi-retired horse who has, in your words been a "child" for 10 years.

I don't care what your definition of a "horsey woman" is, I don't think that they are actually causing this problem. The biggest issue is overpopulation from breeding c**p as well as the economic environment. I don't see anything happening in the near future to get "humane slaughter" up and running in the United States. I wish veterinarians had more time and money to run euthanasia clinics (but that open up disposal of deceased horses) - but then again I don't think the majority of people will do this for their one-five horses that are a money suck - they will want cash for their burdens...

Dang - those videos were something else - I can't even imagine that as my job, I think I would rather work at one of those chicken plants where they tag and toss chicks >.<

[hissking]

You know, I think the people who want slaughter permanently banned would get a lot farther if they stopped branding EVERYONE who doesn't agree with every single one of their talking points as "pro slaughter"

Here's the actual bill:

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/10rs/hb398.htm

Because some organizations out there aren't 100% on the bandwagon of banning slaughter completely, or think it might have to be an option, they're being labelled as a "pro slaughter" group. Since some people from such organizations are going to be on this board, those on the anti side claim this is all some subversive conspiracy to bring slaughter back.

According to the bill, all this is doing is creating an advisory board, with members from varied backgrounds to study and make recommendations on how to improve the welfare situation in the state. I think if more "antis" could look beyond the rhetoric a bit and find common ground with those who are not militantly anti, they may actually find some solutions. But it seems they prefer to scream that anyone who doesn't fully agree with all their talking points is "pro slaughter"

Now if people really want something to be worked up about:

Slaughter Bill passes MO House

There's also new hidden camera footage out of canada this week. It's hard to watch, and actually pretty clear and well documented for once.

This bill creates the very same kind of organization we already have in the Animal Control Advisory Board. Another Board, that cannot possibly police what its intended purpose is, and that will take more tax payer dollars to police what it does. I'm sorry, I am with the people who think this is the states way of once again pushing the issues aside and trying to make it look nice and pretty. Its not pretty, and if you are a horse in KY, its not a nice place to be. IMHO.