KY Bill to Create Pro Slaughter Board Passes Sen

[Kennysadsack]

Five,there are 2 rescues standing in my field right now. One was a 3 mo. old orphan who was in a field with a lot of other Tbs. who were all left to fend for themselves. His mom was kicked,broke her leg and had to be euth. The other is a jumper who had been passed from one moron trainer to another until we got him totally fried. I invite you to come here to Fla. and we will take you on a "tour" and show you true PROLONGED suffering.

[fivehorses]

I don't need your tour, and when you get up to 8, let's talk Kenny. Oh, and please let me add, 2 in florida horsekeeping is nothing compared to the maintenance of horsekeeping in the north...both expense and dealing with brutal freezing winters. Sorry, but 2 horses in florida that you rescued, does not excuse your suggestion that I receive all the poor starving horses.
In fact, I find that a lame response to my suggestions Kenny.
Sorry, but not really impressed.

[aucowwy]

I am well aware that there are a number of people that do not like horse slaughter. I am only speaking for myself. But I think banning it even as meat in this country is just as bad as telling someone they cannot have bovine slaughter and they should not eat it. Also the polls they have for slaughter bother me. it depends on what poll you are looking at and i also believed that a lot of people are not well informed of options or horse husbandry. I also see no differnce in how I would treat a cow or a horse. They are both livestock. Your horse is not your dog- it lives outside and is hundreds of pounds bigger. In this country horses are classified as livestock and for a reason.

I do have a heart. I had to euthanize my own horse about 5 months ago after having him 6 years. My vet even told me that if I did not have him he would be at the slaughter house. He was mechanically and chronically lame. And cost me a lot of money in supplement, vet bills, ect. I kept him alive as long as he was comfortable I feel there is a big void in the system. The facilities we had were set up more for cows not horses and hauling on the road needs to be fixed. BUT what we did have in place was better than what they have in Mexico and it is more humane that riding for hours and hours to Canada. We do need to fix problems in the system but shutting it down only to sent horses to Mexico and Canada and prolonged their suffering. I would much rather my beloved horse go a day through hell and be slaughtered in the States then to have to ride 2 days to another country. Also there is going to be horses that are not stunned correctly and have to be shot again. But when you are dealing with as many animals as they do and considering you are hitting a moving target it is going to happen. It they can euthanized them IV- then go for it, but it also has to be economically pheasable.

[greysandbays]

But, never have I heard anyone pro slaughter also think that improvements in the process need to happen.

That's because you are too occupied with squawking your own viewpoints. Most theoretically pro-slaughter people take it as A GIVEN that the process should be the best it can be. WE don't think to toot it with every breath because we consider it self-evident that a bad process is not a good thing.

So much energy must be expended trying to counter anti-slaughter fanaticism that there isn't a lot of room for focusing on finer points of the process. One can't even get to the finer points when anti fanaticism refuses to even look at the point at all and keeps throwing a monkey wrench in the works.

If we didn't have to keep parrying anti foolishness all the time, we could devote our energy to cracking the whip over the actual slaughter process.

[jetsmom]

That's because you are too occupied with squawking your own viewpoints. Most theoretically pro-slaughter people take it as A GIVEN that the process should be the best it can be. WE don't think to toot it with every breath because we consider it self-evident that a bad process is not a good thing.

So much energy must be expended trying to counter anti-slaughter fanaticism that there isn't a lot of room for focusing on finer points of the process. One can't even get to the finer points when anti fanaticism refuses to even look at the point at all and keeps throwing a monkey wrench in the works.

If we didn't have to keep parrying anti foolishness all the time, we could devote our energy to cracking the whip over the actual slaughter process.

You still haven't said if you've watched the videos linked on the first page.
Come to think of it, neither have the other pro slaughter people on this thread.
Kind of hard to say it's humane if you bury your head in the sand.

[aucowwy]

At this I must point out to you they only put the few videos they get from one or two slaughter houses gone wrong. Do they ever go to the ones run correctly and take videos. NO, does any one ever go to many of the ones who are inspected and run the right way. No they do not. Every one sees one and thinks they are all like that and they are not.

[jetsmom]

At this I must point out to you they only put the few videos they get from one or two slaughter houses gone wrong. Do they ever go to the ones run correctly and take videos. NO, does any one ever go to many of the ones who are inspected and run the right way. No they do not. Every one sees one and thinks they are all like that and they are not.

They filmed all day and show each horse, along with text about each kill. This isn't a couple of horses out of the day. And yes, there are some who are correctly killed. So you might want to watch, before pronouncing them "doctored/biased".

[greysandbays]

.. but you obviously have serious issues with women.

Nope. Just "horsey women".

Horsey women view their horsies as surrogate deities, spouses, or offspring -- and they extend this surrogacy to the entire horse population.

Horsey women usually board their horsie, but might keep their horsie at home on a "farmette". Either way, their horsies don't have to do anything to actuall earn their keep or justify their existence beyond being surrogate deities/spouses/offspring. Occasionally, Horsey women do things for money in the horse buisness, but it rarely provides their sole means of support.

Horsey women might ride their own horsie (rarely horses) passably well but are not really competent all-around riders. They spend a lot of time and energy endlessly fussing around the barn but don't accomplish much.

Horsey women are convinced that nobody in the whole world loves horsies more than they themselves do and are equally convinced that their horsie loves them back. They feed treats and "cookies" to their horsies and feel special.

Horsey women have "issues" with their Significant Others (or utter lack of SO) on acccount of their Horsey womenishness.

Horsey women have the dillusion of being strong and independent but can't rise to the occasion when dire circustances demand.

Horsey women fall to pieces upon the death of their surrogate deity/spouse/offspring.

Horsey women are creatures of over-emotion and under-logic. They frequently co-opt someone else's tragedy in order to get emotional.

Horsey women usually hold limosine liberal political views -- and include themselves in the class that is entitled to dictate how others should behave in most of life's matters and who must give up what for whoever else.

Some COTHers (off the top of my head; I'm sure there are others) I am pretty sure are NOT "Horsey women": Bluey, JSwan, Misty Blue, Alagirl.

[aucowwy]

Yes, this slaughter facility is bad. I saw the videos and pics. But this is just one facility out of millions and SHOULD NOT be a representation of all of them. Some people are stupid. That does not make all people stupid.

Also a lot of these facilities are made for cows! Not horses. You also have to take into consideration it will take a couple of seconds for the horse to die and it takes a few more seconds to line up the right shot on a thrashing animal.

[jetsmom]

Yes, this slaughter facility is bad. I saw all the videos and pics. But this is just one facility out of millions and SHOULD NOT be a representation of all of them. Some people are stupid. That does not make all people stupid.

There aren't millions/or even hundreds or even double digit numbers of horse SH in Canada and MX.

[aucowwy]

I am sorry- in the world. There are hundreds of slaughter places in the states. Just not horses- cows, pigs... But they have basic standards also. I think if you ban horse slaughter you might as well ban all meat animal slaughter. To me it is all the same.

[up-at-5]

"Horsey women fall to pieces upon the death of their surrogate deity/spouse/offspring"

WTF!!!!! I guess I fall in to this category^^.....omg, what shame!! Shame for actually mourning when we lost our 30 year old pony last weekend. What is so bad about actually caring when a beloved horse dies?

GIVE ME A BREAK...I take great offense to your comments, and btw, I can ride really well, and I consider myself a great horsewoman, to boot!

[Nojacketrequired]

Aucowwy...I'm sorry to say it, but if I read correctly, these are videos made at 2 of the 4 plants currently operating in Canada. If I have those numbers wrong, someone please let me know. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Graysand Bays. You paint with a pretty broad brush. My mortgage is paid for by the slaughter industry. Poultry and beef. Anyone suggesting that a 7% (as in these videos) or a 1% (as someone suggested the USDA allowed for a live vivisection rate, I haven't confirmed that so I can't say... ) is an OK, humane miss rate is wrong, IMO.

We are allowed a .1% miss rate. POINT ONE PERCENT.

Just because pain and suffering is going to happen during slaughter doens't mean we can't strive to reduce it as much as possible. And we do. Those who don't should have the full hammer of the law come down on them. Immediately.

I am not anti-slaughter. I am anti-stupidity.

NJR

[caffeinated]

Yes, this slaughter facility is bad. I saw the videos and pics. But this is just one facility out of millions and SHOULD NOT be a representation of all of them. Some people are stupid. That does not make all people stupid.

Also a lot of these facilities are made for cows! Not horses. You also have to take into consideration it will take a couple of seconds for the horse to die and it takes a few more seconds to line up the right shot on a thrashing animal.

Actually, the two facilities in the videos are not exactly bad/poor/flybynight facilities. Bouvry and Richelieu are the two biggest facilities for horse slaughter in Canada (correct me if I'm wrong). These plants have been held up before as models of how it "should" be.

When the kerfuffle over Natural Valley was going on, there was lots of talk about how it was abnormal, and would never happen at the other plants. Well... not so much.

I don't love the activists who took this video - they're extreme and some of what they describe happening in the videos, I don't see exactly the same way they do. I still feel that what was shown was absolutely not acceptable in any way. No excuse.

It would NOT be difficult to make a few changes to make the whole thing better. In the past, I've been called pro-slaughter because I tend to be able to see both sides of the debate. I'm also involved in rescue and the sheer numbers of horses out there going to slaughter every day make me think it's impossible to plug that drain.

That said, I'm still horrified and disgusted. Something as simple as, say, pulling all the horseshoes first and installing non-slip flooring in the box probably would cut down on mistakes by half as horses would not come in scrambling and panicking trying to keep their feet. There's a few other changes that would probably be easy as well. I can't for the life of me understand how anybody could defend the videos as "oh well, a few mistakes happen" - yes, they were edited from an entire day's work - but are that many mistakes in one day OK?

Past videos I've seen - yes, I've felt they couldn't be fully representative - they were hard to see, or from off-the-radar facilities (the pithing videos, for instance, are NOT from the facilities where US horses are being shipped for export).

All that said... if these videos are showing the reality of the two biggest plants in Canada, the bright shining stars of efficiency and humane handling, what are the rest like? I don't think these are so easy to write off with the standard "it's a small bad plant" or "it's highly edited" stuff - there's just too much very clear footage, from places that are supposed to be the "best" in the business (from what I understand anyway).

[Kennysadsack]

"Horsey women are creatures of over-emotion and under-logic. They frequently co-opt someone else's tragedy in order to get emotional.

Horsey women usually hold limosine liberal political views -- and include themselves in the class that is entitled to dictate how others should behave in most of life's matters and who must give up what for whoever else."


Dead on Grey!!!! That would describe more then a few on the Coth bb.

Five I lived in upstate NY for 45 years so no need to tell me about horse keeping in cold weather! I have had numerous rescues over the years and I still support slaughter and YES I DID WATCH THE VIDEO. FIGHT FOR STRICTER REGULATIONS!

[greysandbays]

Graysand Bays. You paint with a pretty broad brush.

It's a big screen. It can take a broad brush.

My mortgage is paid for by the slaughter industry. Poultry and beef. Anyone suggesting that a 7% (as in these videos) or a 1% (as someone suggested the USDA allowed for a live vivisection rate, I haven't confirmed that so I can't say... ) is an OK, humane miss rate is wrong, IMO.

We are allowed a .1% miss rate. POINT ONE PERCENT.

Depends on how one defines a "miss". If it means the animal "suffered" only ten seconds longer than optimal and easily achievable, then 7% (or even 10%) is not outrageous.

On the other hand, if it's horses jumping up and running out of the kill box after being hit or swinging from the hooks still conscious, then .1% is ballpark acceptable (0 would be better).

It would seem to me that there should be a range of "miss" classifications ranging from minor and fairly easily remedied that would warrant a scolding to the worker and perhaps some refinement of technique, to semi-serious that would warrant worker reprimand and plant citations, to heinous that would warrant worker terminations (cane them a few times, too, while they're at it) and plant shut downs and/or huge financial penalties.

Just because pain and suffering is going to happen during slaughter doens't mean we can't strive to reduce it as much as possible. And we do. Those who don't should have the full hammer of the law come down on them. Immediately.

And I don't disagree with that. What I think is useless to any progress is anti-slaughter fanatics wailing and wringing their hands while insisting that EVERY horse going to slaughter suffers horribly and slaughter MUST BE BANNED.

PS: What's this flap about "live vivisection"? Vivisection by definition is not possible on a dead animal. Is "brain dead but heart still pumping" still considered "alive"? It seems like the anti-slaughter fanatics would not be content until no cutting was allowed until rigor set in...

[Kennysadsack]

Oh and FYI Five...I pay between $15-20 for a bale of hay, grain is also more expensive here so know your facts before you go showing your ignorance. It is way more expensive to keep horses here then in NY especially if you do not own large acreage. I have 5 horses here, 2 of whom are rescues. Wanna trade upkeep bills???? P.S. I don't feed coastal so get out your checkbook!

[Kennysadsack]

Have a day!

[jetsmom]

PS: What's this flap about "live vivisection"? Vivisection by definition is not possible on a dead animal. Is "brain dead but heart still pumping" still considered "alive"? It seems like the anti-slaughter fanatics would not be content until no cutting was allowed until rigor set in...

I believe the reference is to horses who are still sensible, capable of feeling pain, trying to kick at the person cutting their legs off, neighing and trying to get away from the person while they are being shackled and hung up to get their throat cut, as shown on the video.

[Alagirl]

I believe the reference is to horses who are still sensible, capable of feeling pain, trying to kick at the person cutting their legs off, neighing and trying to get away from the person while they are being shackled and hung up to get their throat cut, as shown on the video.

'as shown in the video'

aight, did anybody anywhere ever say that that was remotely acceptable?!