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KY Bill to Create Pro Slaughter Board Passes Sen

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  • #21
    I think you are perhaps missing the point in terms of degree of pain and fear here.

    I go to the dentist, I encounter a degree of distress and discomfort. For the better good, so I keep the teeth and gums I have and I can eat without discomfort. The dentist isn't shoveling me into a stun chamber.
    www.specialhorses.org
    a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by MassageLady View Post
      That's not a pro or anti slaughter horse anything.

      I thought one of the problems in the US is that many people believe states don't care about the welfare of livestock.

      Well, that's not true. It's not only not true, but states and organizations are starting to band together to formulate better processes, address gaps and loopholes in laws and regs, and to create standards of care, housing etc.

      Because over time bits and pieces of legislation and regs have been implemented but inconsistencies and gaps have crept in. That's how animal abusers get off scott free. It's how cases of neglect go without investigation. That's how law enforcement can't figure out who has jurisdiction over which offense or type of animal.

      Y'all don't seem to know what you want. You want abusers punished, you want better laws, you want loopholes closed -but when groups attempt to do just that- y'all start screaming about horse slaughter.

      Well guess what folks, the entire world does not revolve around horse slaughter, and the creation of welfare boards does not mean they intend to open a plant next door to your farm.

      Quit the sensationalizing drivel - and open your mind a little.

      Maybe, just maybe, people would like to PLAN for animal welfare matters rather then leave it up to the damned AR groups. Maybe someone would like to avoid the disaster the AR groups are responsible for. Yes, I'm referring to the closure of plants and the fact that our nations horses are going to other countries for slaughter. That disaster happened because of lack of REAL planning. REAL studies of how closures would affect rescues, shelters, owners and horse welfare overall.

      And not only horses - but more and more other species of livestock travel horrific distances to slaughter.

      Instead of repeating past mistakes, and leaving "welfare" to the AR groups - states are taking it upon themselves to correct problems in their own state. This is a tremendous opportunity to improve animal welfare and prosecution of abusers.

      Horse owners should support these efforts - not oppose them. There is more to animal welfare than horse slaughter - and these boards are a terrific opportunity to improve animal welfare. You should participate.

      Or, you can just sit around and bitch.
      Last edited by JSwan; Apr. 3, 2010, 05:53 PM.
      Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
      Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
      -Rudyard Kipling

      Comment


      • #23
        don't any of you read the web home page of chronicle? A few days ago there was an article about the state of wyoming establishing a horse slaughter plant designed by Temple Grandin and Assoc due to large numbers of unwanted horses. Other western states are thinking along the same line. The meat will be distributed within the state to prisons etc and will not be sold or transported across state lines.
        Might be a better solution to the whole problem, done correctly and humanely.
        pezk

        Comment


        • #24
          From birth to death, nearly everything we do with a horse has some element of pain and/or fear involved at some point.

          All you have to do is read THIS VERY FORUM to realize that many horsey women are causing their horses distress and discomfort. That these horsey women don't recognize this doesn't make it not so. Neither does these horsey women luuuuuuuvvvvvving their horses.
          So, GandB, what exactly is your point? We should allow wholesale, inhumane slaughter because all animals experience pain at some point anyway?

          Because I'm just not following your logic here. Yes, abuse happens, but that doesn't mean you close your eyes to the abuse you SEE happening on your right because you didn't SEE abuse that happened on your left.

          JSwan. Hear! Hear!

          Pezk...the meat has to be federally inspected for human consumption, how do they plan to do that? I'll go read the article of course.

          NJR
          Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Nojacketrequired View Post
            So, GandB, what exactly is your point? We should allow wholesale, inhumane slaughter because all animals experience pain at some point anyway?

            Because I'm just not following your logic here. Yes, abuse happens, but that doesn't mean you close your eyes to the abuse you SEE happening on your right because you didn't SEE abuse that happened on your left.


            NJR
            My point exactly is that it is foolish to squawk that since slaughter is not 1000% PERFECTLY free of pain and/or fear, it must be banned -- but think horsey women aren't traumatizing their horses in trailer loading, foot soaking, vaccinating, stall resting, and all the other things going badly that we read about on this board because these horsey women luuuuuvvvvvv their horsies.

            When you strip away the horsey woman's romance with her horse, there is not much of a gap between what remains and slaughter. If one is unacceptable, so should the other be as well. Instead, we have not anti-slaughter: OFF WITH THEIR HEADS; horsey woman traumatizing her horse: blow smoke up her butt and tell her everything will be OK and she didn't do anything wrong.

            Comment


            • #26
              In a perfect world there would be no need for slaughtering of horses BUT this is not nor ever will be a perfect world and horses are SUFFERING. We can't save them all so why don't we fight for very strict legislation on the care,shipping and slaughtering methods???? Just because you don't see starving horses in your area does not mean it is not happening. I could take you on a tour of my county and you would be appalled and sick over the amt. of emanciated animals standing out in fields or in small enclosures behind someones house. Animal control is overwhelmed and the law here says as long as there is hay,grain, and water on the premises they cannot take the animal. They just had a case where 15 horses were found dead, one of them with its head in the empty water trough. Hay and grain just our of reach.

              Comment


              • #27
                greysandbays, I find you extremely offensive, almost stupid, and certainly condescending and sexist with your 'horsey women' sterotyping.

                Did you watch the video?
                You haven't answered that question yet.

                If you are pro slaughter(kind of obvious), what are you doing to make it humane?

                As far as the fear and pain comment, oh please, lets not detract from the point that there is a certain amount of pain and suffering, but should not be considered ok.

                I think many people are clear there are way too many horses, and something needs to be done. Personally, I'd like to see the idiots who throw a stud in with a group of mares gelded(the human that is along with the stud). I would also like to see large scale euthanasia clinics.

                Until slaughter can be done with minimal pain and live vivisection, I have to vehmently oppose it.

                I am glad Temple Grandin is finally helping horses and if we have to have a slaughter plant, she designs it. But, who is educating the plant employees about humane kills? Without that compassion, design does not make much difference.
                save lives...spay/neuter/geld

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by fivehorses View Post
                  greysandbays, I find you extremely offensive, almost stupid, and certainly condescending and sexist with your 'horsey women' sterotyping.

                  Did you watch the video?
                  You haven't answered that question yet.

                  If you are pro slaughter(kind of obvious), what are you doing to make it humane?

                  As far as the fear and pain comment, oh please, lets not detract from the point that there is a certain amount of pain and suffering, but should not be considered ok.

                  I think many people are clear there are way too many horses, and something needs to be done. Personally, I'd like to see the idiots who throw a stud in with a group of mares gelded(the human that is along with the stud). I would also like to see large scale euthanasia clinics.

                  Until slaughter can be done with minimal pain and live vivisection, I have to vehmently oppose it.

                  I am glad Temple Grandin is finally helping horses and if we have to have a slaughter plant, she designs it. But, who is educating the plant employees about humane kills? Without that compassion, design does not make much difference.

                  Nothing better than replacing one stereo type with another!

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    "I would also like to see large scale euthanasia clinics.

                    Until slaughter can be done with minimal pain and live vivisection, I have to vehmently oppose it."


                    I vote that all the unwanted,neglected horses be shipped to Fivehorse so that she can either pay to have them all euthed or she can pay for their upkeep and care!!!

                    A lot of people can not afford to have the vet or whomever come out and euth their horse and then pay to have it either carted off or buried...it IS as simple as that! I watched the video and yes, it is horrible. That is why we have to fight for strict legislation on how they are shipped and slaughtered. Meanwhile the horses ARE suffering a long, slow death starving, waiting for someone who is never going to come.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      GraysandBays, I am not anti-slaughter, but I still don't get your point. I'm not going to ask again, because I am hoping that I will NEVER understand where you are coming from.

                      I am glad Temple Grandin is finally helping horses and if we have to have a slaughter plant, she designs it. But, who is educating the plant employees about humane kills? Without that compassion, design does not make much difference.
                      The people who are doing the educating are the ones who carry out the design with Ms. Grandin. They educate the next level down, who educates the next level down, etc. In a well run plant there are checks and balances along the way to insure that everyone knows the rules. In a Federal plant we have vets there 24/7.Our vets don't let ANYTHING slide. And I don't mean just in the live animals, because we have very well-trained, well-paid employees who are rotated through the slaughter sections and WILL report on each other. Plus a MGR whose job is to watch.

                      The vets are paid by the gov't, and they answer to the gov't. And they don't care how much it costs us to close the entire place down, if they see something out of line. Perhaps one of the rules for any new horse slaughter plant must be that they pay into a fund to help the gov't pay for full-time vets on site?

                      I watched one of the video and any one of our AgCan vets would have pulled the plug after the first horse went through. No question. The MANAGER should have stopped operating. Heck, the employees should have walked out.

                      But, they are people, they need jobs, and no excuses, but you get jaded, seeing that all the time. I've heard from people that you almost start to hate the animal for what "it" is making you do....really you hate yourself. We rotate people through the slaughter section quite frequently for that reason. It's very hard on people to do that job. Very few people take a job in slaughter because that is what they wanted to do when they grew up.

                      NJR
                      Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by greysandbays View Post
                        My point exactly is that it is foolish to squawk that since slaughter is not 1000% PERFECTLY free of pain and/or fear, it must be banned -- but think horsey women aren't traumatizing their horses in trailer loading, foot soaking, vaccinating, stall resting, and all the other things going badly that we read about on this board because these horsey women luuuuuvvvvvv their horsies.

                        When you strip away the horsey woman's romance with her horse, there is not much of a gap between what remains and slaughter. If one is unacceptable, so should the other be as well. Instead, we have not anti-slaughter: OFF WITH THEIR HEADS; horsey woman traumatizing her horse: blow smoke up her butt and tell her everything will be OK and she didn't do anything wrong.
                        I am NOT anti-slaughter, and I still find this incredibly offensive. As a woman who rides horses, I do my best to make my horse's life as happy, natural, and pain-free as possible. I do this by educating myself as much as I can about equine anatomy and physiology, nutrition, etc. That's part of the reason why I read on this board, so that I can learn from people more experienced than I. Does my horse still experience fear and pain sometimes? Sure. Do I and every other human being I know also experience fear and pain? Yep. Should we go around shooting each other in the heads because of the inhumanity of life? I don't think so.
                        You're clearly writing out of deep resentment. I don't know whether you are a man or a woman, but you obviously have serious issues with women. You should probably deal with those before you even hazard another attempt at putting your feelings about horse slaughter in writing.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                          I don't know what kind of shows you go to, but I've never been at a show where fear or pain is common. (Ok...Maybe fear from the re-rider ammies worrying they'll forget the course, but not fear on the horse's part).

                          Did you look at the videos or read the text where it goes horse by horse?
                          Yes, slaughter is ugly. Yes it could be a lot more humane. But want to be really horrified? Go to a walking horse show. This goes on for years, not just a couple of hours at a slaughter plant. Although it does look like the rules against soaring may finally be enforced.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Pro Slaughter

                            I never reply to anything on here but must with this. While I only looke dat some of the pictures and will say if you are going to shoot a horse it needs to be done properly, I do not agree with everything about the videos that were posted by some idiot of a coalition.

                            First off I am PRO SLAUGHTER all the way. I have a college degree in Agriculture- so I am at least educated in this area and I currently own two horses both of which are well taken care of and UTD on everything. I feel as though most anti-slaughter advocates are mis led and not educated on all the facts. You never see videos from well run slaughter houses- it is always one or two crooked videos and most people presume they are all like that.

                            There is a big need for better facilities to accomodate hrose slughter- most are set up for cows. Put done humanely this is a better option than other options that are avaliable and one that is needed.

                            The advocates that put up these videos also put this up.
                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/cetfa/4450045634/
                            Which advocates and champions castration in the pigs being illegal. Last time I checked having a bunch of uncastrated pigs housed together is bad. People who are anti slaughter also have a problem penning sows when they are breeding. Well, what they do not know is we did not do this the sow would lay on the piglets and kill them. I know this is a bit off the subject but having a state run and well operated slaughter system is the best option.
                            Pro Slaughter
                            Anti Parelli

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Exactly, I would have to say something if someone is being abusive to their horse. Of course there are idiots out there in every walk of life with every type of animal and they should not even own an animal. But that is not the norm at horse sports and should not be. If they get caught they can be reported in states where they have animal welfare laws.

                              Not all states do have animal welfare laws. That's because people resist protecting animals, people will accuse those trying to get a law passed of being PETA or AR instead of just caring that an animal is being neglected or tortured. But then it hits the news and is exposed and everyone is jumping up and down saying, "Why were these people allowed to get away with this abuse?" It's because people who attack anyone who wants laws to protect animals go into a tizzy to protect their right to abuse and neglect animals. I know that pediphiles feel the same way when we want to protect children too, so of course any criminal or evil person will want to be allowed to freely continue in their evil ways.

                              I say lets stop protecting evil and find that common sense balance of reasonable care and use of animals and get some controls because you can't count on everyone to be humane whether with humans or those creatures who can not speak for themselves.


                              Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                              I don't know what kind of shows you go to, but I've never been at a show where fear or pain is common. (Ok...Maybe fear from the re-rider ammies worrying they'll forget the course, but not fear on the horse's part).

                              Did you look at the videos or read the text where it goes horse by horse?

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                I don't understand this great adoration for Temple Grandin, she's not impressive to me at all. Just because she wrote a book and designed a way to kill animals and now wants to find another way to kill horses, well if she really wanted a better way to kill animals for meat then she would do away with the assembly line altogether and go back to the small butcher shop. I think it's just fine that meat costs more money, it should, the animals pay the ultimate price after all, why should meat be cheap? This country is in a meat glut and we aren't getting any healthier for it. If the process is slowed down for the benefit of the animals and it costs more and there's less available then perhaps it's all good.

                                Dr. Nicholas Dodman has more credentials and completely disagrees with Grandin. He's not the only well respected vet who disagrees with her, I am not a groupie for some famous person because they wrote a book and is autistic. That doesn't make her right. I think Cavel International who used her methods proved that an assembly line does not work for horses, and it's not good for any animal.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  You are paying monthly to keep a horse whether at home or boarding and if you have to pay a vet and for removal that's not likely to be more than another month's board or 2 months. So if you can't afford that then don't get a horse in the first place, it's part of the package of caring for them, through life and death. A slaughter house is not a humane death and anyone saying otherwise can't be serious or they have something missing. It's not humane, it is practical and cheap.

                                  Horses aren't cheap to keep so I suggest that for those people who can't afford a proper solution to end their lives can also not afford to keep a horse.




                                  Originally posted by Kennysadsack View Post
                                  A lot of people can not afford to have the vet or whomever come out and euth their horse and then pay to have it either carted off or buried...it IS as simple as that! I watched the video and yes, it is horrible. That is why we have to fight for strict legislation on how they are shipped and slaughtered. Meanwhile the horses ARE suffering a long, slow death starving, waiting for someone who is never going to come.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    As far as slaughter is concerned, done humanely is ok. A horse, cow or pig that is bolted in the head then bled out as long as it is treated humanely until it dies has no idea it is going to be killed and if treated well up to that point in life the fact that it is slaughtered for others to eat does not instantly label it as being abused.

                                    Many do not like the idea of eating animals. They have every right to believe this and do not have to eat them but it is just as wrong for one person to tell them they can't eat meat as it is for the other person to tell them they should. We slaughter cows and pigs, slaughtering a horse in this country should be no different. It is a source of meat. We in this country do not see it as that but it does not make it wrong.
                                    Pro Slaughter
                                    Anti Parelli

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Please do not presume to speak for all Americans. Every poll has shown that around 75% of Americans do not want horses slaughtered for human consumption.

                                      Your previous post claimed you were well educated but you are not well informed. I have a feeling I've got more information on the subject of horse slaughter than the average person and though I believe there is a place and time where a horse can be shot and their carcass used for meat, I don't think it's reasonable to slaughter thousands of healthy young horses annually and it is clearly inhumane and no assembly line of slaughter of any animal can be made humane because animals aren't stupid.

                                      By the way, no need to compare pigs and cows, this is a horse forum, not a farm forum.



                                      Originally posted by aucowwy View Post
                                      As far as slaughter is concerned, done humanely is ok. A horse, cow or pig that is bolted in the head then bled out as long as it is treated humanely until it dies has no idea it is going to be killed and if treated well up to that point in life the fact that it is slaughtered for others to eat does not instantly label it as being abused.

                                      Many do not like the idea of eating animals. They have every right to believe this and do not have to eat them but it is just as wrong for one person to tell them they can't eat meat as it is for the other person to tell them they should. We slaughter cows and pigs, slaughtering a horse in this country should be no different. It is a source of meat. We in this country do not see it as that but it does not make it wrong.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Kenny, I already have 8 horses in my barn, all that were pulled out of feedlots, because the auction process ended them up with kill buyers. All but three have been useful to me. the others are all mentally or physically incompetent.

                                        I would take in more, but my finances and resources limit me to not taking in any more. How many at risk horses have you taken in?

                                        Unfortunately, I think the different perspectives on equine slaughter are polarized, and cannot work together. The pro people don't work to make slaughter houses more humane, and the anti slaughter people don't want slaughter, therefore don't put effort into improving slaughter's process, but focus on rescuing horses that are at risk.

                                        And in the meanwhile, horses go to Mexico or Canada and get slaughtered.
                                        save lives...spay/neuter/geld

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Aucoway, do you know that the USDA allowed a 10% live vivisection?

                                          That meant their quality control allowed up to 1 in every 10 horses was ok for quality control to be disembowled and bled out without being brain dead.

                                          Regardless of your position on slaughter or any terminating of life for human consumption, I hope we all agree that it should be done humanely.

                                          I think for me, I would be more amendable to hearing from pro slaughter people(who I can understand some of their points) if they also were emphatic about ensuring humane methods were utilized.
                                          I just don't see or read that. I hear the argument of waste of euthanasia, people consume horse meat, whats the diff between equine and bovine, etc and on and on. But, never have I heard anyone pro slaughter also think that improvements in the process need to happen.
                                          save lives...spay/neuter/geld

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