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Lets play a TB pedigree game

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  • I'm currently absolutely enamoured with a 3 year old whose sire is by Nijinsky and out of a Damascus mare, and his dam is a Grey Sovereign grand-daughter. My mare Eddie's sire is by Nijinsky and out of a Damascus mare, and her dam was also a Grey Sovereign grand-daughter and could that mare jump!
    I really don't need another horse right now but couldn't help calling about him and they're going to run him in a claiming race on the 17th or 18th. Any input on his pedigree? How about how claiming races work? Would I be able to claim him or not?

    www.coolmeadows.net
    Please don't try to be a voice of reason. It's way more fun to spin things out of control. #BecauseCOTH - showhorsegallery

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      Thanks Simke and LH!

      in the B - 3 in the 4th gen = 3
      in the I - 4 second gen and 4 in the 3rd and 4 in the 4th gen = 12
      in the C - 4 in the second gen and 4 in the 3rd and 2 in the 4th = 1
      In the S - 4 in the 3rd and 1 in the 4th =
      In P - none

      His Dam is Runabout by Sir Ivor and his Sire is I Am The Game.

      his numbers are then....3-12-10-5-0.....my little knucklehead....love of my life..Rave

      Mary

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        Thanks Simke and LH!
        none in 1st gen.
        B = 3 in 4th gen = 3
        I = 4 in snd + 4 in 3rd + 4 in 4th = 12
        C = 4 in 2nd + 4 in 3rd + 2 in 4th = 10
        S = 4 in 3rd + 1 in 4th = 5
        P = none in P

        3-12-10-5-0

        Does this mean anything to a show hunter?
        Ravey doesn't have a fast bone in his body unless he's clocking around the field, then he's very fast and outruns all his OTTB field mates easily. Which is why he's alone in a paddock now....after they'd run awhile he'd beat them up. He's too valuable to allow that under any circumstances. I have to kick him around courses....and he usually goes slower the more I push...although coming out of the hunter circle I always have the pace and he's on the money and never changes..he's really fun to ride. he never pulls or runs or slows up or stops...I just set up the corners, he does the rest. Ha! Even when mistakes are made by either of us, he doesn't change past necessary adjustments, all he does is squeel really quietly...it's so funny to hear..my trainer and I crack up every time he does it... Mary

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          Rave is
          by I Am The Game
          out of Runabout by Sir Ivor.

          Poor boy couldn't race his way onto Del Mar.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            Sorry about all the posts.thought I deleted the first one accidently..guess I didn't....then rambled too much in the next one...

            Comment


            • This is my old OTTB pedigree:
              Mister E
              *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
              *Lazeo*-2000 Oldenburg gelding http://community.webshots.com/user/lazeo_e

              Comment


              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                Never Bend seems to have a huge influence in the Hunter lines, above mare is 3 generations removed from Never Bend on her Sire's side, but there is a stallion here in texas who is "Never Bend Better"

                http://www.chencofarm.com/nbb.htm
                <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                Never Bend Better's sire is my mare's half-brother. *Ormea (NBB granddam) ran in Brazil and Argentina before she was imported to the US and ran in (and won) stakes races at Santa Anita. She had quite a few California bred foals. Bend Again (NBB sire) raced, then was evented through Intermediate before standing as a sport horse sire. My mare (in Del Mar under her registered name, Road Weary) is a grade 2 event horse. All of *Ormea's offspring that went to the track won races except for my mare and her full brother (they had to be kicking themselves for doing THAT twice ). (My mare's sire is Peregrinator, who ran second to Spectacular Bid once. )

                Anyway, I'm really intrigued by *Ormea - she seemed to produce some quality babies. I wonder if any of her other babies were tried as sport horses. As a South American bred, she had a lot of European TB lines in her pedigree. Does anyone know anything about the names in her pedigree? Her sire, Again II, is familiar, but I can't recall any specifics. In general, I'm really interested in coming across mares who have multiple good sport horse babies.
                If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                Comment


                • Hey Poltroon, Again2 is the maternal grandsire of my Eddie too, that's the only part of her pedigree that differs from this 3 year old that I'm going crazy over... Again2 was by Foxhunter, and comes from the Dark Ronald line. Your mare goes back to Dark Ronald again through Oleander, very interesting pedigree!
                  Here's a bit about Dark Ronald:
                  The Dark Ronald Line
                  Foxhunter was also the gransire of Rantzau (the sire of Cor De La Bryere), and Rantzau shows in under 4 generations in all these guys:
                  Atout d'Isigny
                  Baloubet du Rouet
                  Calei Joter
                  Calvaro
                  Calvaro Z
                  Carthago Z
                  Cassiana Joter
                  Cento
                  Classic Touch
                  Operette la Silla
                  Souviens Toi III
                  Twist du Valon

                  She's also got Phalaris, the grandsire of Lucky Boy.
                  And like my mare, through Again2, she traces to the Hurry On/Precipitatoin line! Precipitation was the sire of Furioso...
                  Really nicely bred mare you have! I hope you plan to breed her when she retires.

                  www.coolmeadows.net
                  Please don't try to be a voice of reason. It's way more fun to spin things out of control. #BecauseCOTH - showhorsegallery

                  Comment


                  • Again2 was an Argentinian bred, and I just noticed that this 3 year old I'm itching to get my hands on has Forli who's Argentinian also. So I looked him up, and he's full of Phalaris, Son In Law, and Foxhunter! Forli is also the gransire of a Hanoverian called Prince Thatch, who I don't know. He really is bred so similarly to Eddie. I want this horse! Can anyone give me any tips on claiming a horse?

                    www.coolmeadows.net
                    Please don't try to be a voice of reason. It's way more fun to spin things out of control. #BecauseCOTH - showhorsegallery

                    Comment


                    • inmotion - if I was looking at him from the perspective of a horse bred for distance (based on his dosage alone) I would say that he is more classic breeding than the average American horse, but not really bred for distance in the true "international" sense of the word, especially if the 5 solid points were assigned dually instead of as a [S] only (meaning the sire(s) that carried the [S] were only solid horses as opposed to solid/classic sires.

                      But dosage doesn't have anything to do with the speed of the horse, just his ability to sustain his speed over X distance. There are plenty of horses who are very dominant [B] horses and couldn't outrun my old pony.

                      When you look at a dosage score, you can tell a few things right off - for instance if a horse has a high sum number (sum of all chef de race sires in his pedigree) then you can reasonably ascertain that he/she has many quality sires close up and deep in the pedigree. The amazing mare, Weekend Surprise, has a score of 60. Of course this number doesn't mean much more than the paper it is written on, as Storm Cat has 30 and John Henry has 28.

                      The DI is just the straightforward calculation of the balance between speed - aka all the numbers to the left of classic (a miler) and endurance (all the numbers to the right of classic). Classic itself is split between the two categories. The CD uses a formula that more heavily weights the outliers, Brilliant and Professional. The idea behind the CD is that if your horse has a low DI, but that is really achieved by a BIG number under [B] and the sum of some smaller numbers under [C] and [S] then the CD calculation will show that your horse is truly more of a speed horse than a miler. An example is a horse who has lots of classic/solid stuff far back in his pedigree but happens to be sired by a top sprinter, well the odds are he is probably a sprinter as well. The CD captures that logic.

                      But just to confuse things, a lot of horses have not read the dosage manual. John Henry has a DI=3.31 and CD=1, indicating he really shouldn't have won all those loooooooong races he did, never mind setting or equaling the track record several times at 10-12f. So you really have to take dosage with a grain of salt. But it is still a fun grain of salt all the same!

                      The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.
                      Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                      Comment


                      • Not to be a nag, but am I the only one who would have had more fun in this thread if people didn't change their horses' names every time they changed ownership?

                        madeline
                        madeline
                        * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

                        Comment


                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                          Here's his pedigree on the sire line(for Real Quiet... they don't have my guy listed, despite being nominated for the 2002 Derby): http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.p...=Standard&x2=n
                          <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          Is your guy D' Behr? They have him listed! Here's the link to his pedigree. Also includes info about him. If it isn't your horse, let me know!!

                          Erin
                          Erin
                          Dodon Farm Training Center - on Facebook

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horse_hugger:
                            Is your guy D' Behr? They have him listed! Here's the http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.p...=Standard&x2=y to his pedigree. Also includes info about him. If it isn't your horse, let me know!!
                            <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            Thats him, thanks! I looked up his 2-year old sales results, and lets just say that his sale price was 20 times his winnings. Not a very good ROI for his owners...

                            Speaking of Never Bend, my mare's sire line goes back to him, and she has that classic hunter look and lope.

                            ~formerly Master Tally~

                            Comment


                            • Lord Helpus - Do you have pictures of Stevie & George you could share!? I use to ride a Darby Creek Road baby (he's still at the barn) & would love to compare the looks & characteristics. I'll try and get a picture of my guy posted. Austin (Darby Royal) actually looks more like a Cleveland Bay than a TB!! But I love him - he has such a funny cocky attitude. He's done mostly jumpers but he's actually placed in a couple hunter classes at B rated shows.

                              Comment


                              • So a dosage of1.98, 0.5 CD means Lio should race 11-12 furlongs?

                                Well, it 'splains why he was seemingly born fit
                                It\'s a pity life ain\'t got no warranty for times like now...

                                Comment


                                • http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.p...=Standard&x2=n

                                  This is Lio,
                                  It\'s a pity life ain\'t got no warranty for times like now...

                                  Comment


                                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madeline:
                                    Not to be a nag, but am I the only one who would have had more fun in this thread if people didn't change their horses' names every time they changed ownership?

                                    madeline<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


                                    Most TB's don't get their names changed everytime they change ownership. Barn and show names, yes, but rarely registered name.

                                    Rebecca and SNL (Stewie)
                                    http://www.bluffparkfarm.com
                                    http://community.webshots.com/user/pirateer

                                    Comment


                                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunt_jump:
                                      I had thought of Caro. Wasn't Loyal Pal a Caro son? I have been trying to find http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.p...NNOTATE&g=5&l=. I am interested to see what he looks like. According to his pedigree, he is by the Caro son With Approval and (if we are on the right track with Western Prospect) out of Western Prospect's full sister. I have heard of With Approval, but I know nothing of him as a sport horse sire.

                                      ~ hunt_jump ~
                                      http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump
                                      <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      I can provide some anecdotal information for you.

                                      I have a With Approval son that's out of a Roberto mare http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.p...=Standard&x2=n

                                      He couldn't run fast enough to keep warm at the track but he's a very nice hunter, jumps great, gets a hack prize. His canter is like a metronome and if I can manage to stay out of his way he'll win the class for me.

                                      The best part is his brain - quiet, generous, uncomplicated and very responsible.

                                      My coach also has a With Approval son that's out of a Vice Regent mare. He has a fabulous jump and is a better mover than my guy.

                                      Both have been very successful showing nationally up here at three-foot, with my coach's guy finishing up third overall and mine in sixth for the A/A 18-35 division. They were also second and third respectively in the adult medal in Ontario this year.

                                      A selection of images of my horse are here: http://community.webshots.com/album/104029278HpqYte

                                      Comment


                                      • Okay here's some pic's of the guy I did 3 season's on. He did better in jumper's & we finished off going in our first 4 foot classes in September. Unfortunatly that is the only time we will be able to do that because he now laid up from ringbone changes (P1&P2) so we don't know what he will end up being able to do.

                                        Magnum

                                        Here is his pedigree - Out of Control

                                        Another horse my trainer is selling is a wonderful hunter (& jumper prospect). Here is his pedigree - Connor (Ralydar). I wish I had before & after pictures because he looked like a drowned rat when he came but now he has filled out and is so handsome. He just lopes up to the fence and powers over them.

                                        Comment


                                        • CoolMeadows, thank you! That was a great article!

                                          My mare is 18 and still going strong & sound after all she's done... I know it's pushing the envelope but I was thinking about breeding her in the spring, if the vet thinks she's worth a shot.
                                          If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

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