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BO Threatening to Sell Boarder's Horse

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  • #21
    ...
    Last edited by DiablosHalo; Mar. 30, 2010, 01:57 PM.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by take_a_deep_breathe View Post
      Thanks to you all...

      I am not friends with this person, he just boards at my barn. He actually is trying to sell the horse, but hasn't had any luck just yet as the horse needs a very advance rider as he can be on the hot side at times.

      His concern was that the BO wants to sell the horse for $1,000 to someone and is going to keep the $550 profit. (Trust me the BO is no good!) That's why the BO is trying to hide the horse from the owner, because he is afraid if he finds a seller for the horse- he is not going to be making the sale profit on the horse. He is just going to be getting the back board.

      So, he wanted to know what the legal process was that the BO had to go through to get his horse!
      If the BO is "no good!" then why do you keep your horse there?

      If the person who is behind on board cares about their horse and what happens to it, who profits from it etc then they should PAY THEIR BOARD.
      Auventera Two:Some women would eat their own offspring if they had some dipping sauce.
      Serious Leigh: it sounds like her drama llama should be an old schoolmaster by now.

      Comment

      • #23
        Originally posted by DiablosHalo View Post
        I didn't read all the posts- 18m dd is trying to type with me!

        I agree- short answer yes BUT BO has to do it legally.

        NOTE: I went through this with a boarder and found out:

        BO can NOT legally "hold" the horse at the farm. IF they show up with a trailer- BO MUST let owner take the horse. The board bill is a civil matter. Withholding the horse from the owner is a criminal act and BO could be arrested.
        I am an equine attorney and would ask that you guys please do not make statements like this, as you can be very misleading.

        Every state has different laws and rules in this area. What are the proper steps in one state do not necessarily apply in another.

        For example above, the poster said "BO can NOT legally "hold" the horse at the farm. IF they show up with a trailer- BO MUST let owner take the horse. The board bill is a civil matter. Withholding the horse from the owner is a criminal act and BO could be arrested. "

        NOT TRUE in many/most states. The BO can hold the horse and the owner cannot take the horse without paying. Such in the law in Texas. and many other states.

        There are NO hard and fast rules. Call at attorney in YOUR state to found the laws and rules that apply to barns in that state.
        Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

        Comment

        • #24
          Sounds like your friend is running a scam. Apparently, he's not upset that the BO might sell the horse, but that the BO might make money on it. Nice.

          That said, if a BO puts a legal lien on a horse and sells it, s/he is only allowed to keep what is owed him/her for back board; the balance must go to the horse's owner. According to FL law, anway. So, it sounds to me as if the best thing your friend can do is let the BO take possession of the horse and sell it, if he's got a buyer, since your friend will receive any overage, anyway.

          NOTE: I am not a lawyer, and laws vary from state to state. This is not to be construed as legal advice, only my own experience.
          In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
          A life lived by example, done too soon.
          www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

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          • #25
            ***Good point Sonesta!

            Well if the BO knows someone who needs a lesson horse, perhaps the owner should look into that? Then he could actually pay the BO and get out from under the horse... Shoot, in that situation, I'd be glad to let the BO have all the money from the sale (if only selling him for $1K and already owe the BO close to $600 and have no buyer prospects in sight) just to get my back board paid and out from under the monthly expenses of owning the horse. Obviously this is in the case that the potential buyer is providing a decent new home = )

            Comment

            • #26
              I know in my state if someone tries to take their horse while still owning board, they can be arrested, the same as if you go pick up your car from a mechanic's lot without paying for the repairs.

              Board IS a civil matter, but police can get in HUGE trouble if they assist someone in removing a horse with an outstanding bill as it is considered interfering with contract law. A verbal contract is still a contract, and for the judge to decide how to interpret.

              I know many farms that padlock stalls on horses that are not paid within a reasonable period. I would never put a horse in that kind of risk. Better to move the horse to another area of the farm where it can be safely secured, like a field with a shed that the gate can be padlocked.

              I am sure what really spooked the barn manager is that the horse is for sale, and it seems for not a lot of money more than a few months board??

              Not much wiggle room there. I have really worked with people I know LOVE their horse, and are doing everything they can as they can't bear to part with them. Someone that is planning to sell is not that attached, and will easily abandon them when the board goes upside down.

              Comment

              • #27
                Quite honestly... how are you a horse owner if you can't come up with $450???

                I feel for the horse in the matter... bc if there is ever a medical emergency... clearly the horse is going to suffer, bc how is this owner going to afford the bills??? How about shoes??? If they're not paying board... my guess is that the budget isn't exactly there for proper farrier care or veterinary care either.

                As someone who is apparently friends with this person and quite possibly boards there also... I'd be VERY concerned about not only the welfare of their horse, but yours also. If that horse doesn't get properly vaccinated... that could cause an epidemic, should they catch something. Spring shots are here... and vets don't work for free.

                They should immediately be looking for a free lease or another option for this animal. In this economy, I can sympathize with being short of cash, but you simply cannot afford a luxury item and ignore your financial responsibilities.

                Not sure how talented the horse is... but maybe a barn/camp will take it for the summer as an extra school horse??? Or talk to a college about giving to them for a free lease for a semester??? Gives them time to catch up on their bills.

                Comment

                • #28
                  Sadly- many people are having issues paying their board and BO's get left cleaning up. I sympathize with the horse owner- might be in such a financial situation that $450 in near impossible to come up with but also the BO *has* been caring and feeding for the horse which is an unfair drain to his business whether you like the guy or not.

                  I agree- the horse owner should just let BO sell the horse if there is an interested buyer and owner was selling anyway. OR horse owner should sell all their tack to raise money to pay backboard. Their least concern should be how much money the BO has the potential to make on a horse sale.

                  Some boarders fail to realize how close the financial margins of running a boarding barn really are. Small facilities are often skirting by on very little $. A non paying boarder is extremely difficult to carry month to month.

                  Comment

                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Thomas_1 View Post

                    If I were you unless I was an extremely close friend, I'd advise you to stay out of it.

                    Bad debts and disagreements about the same are always messy and you don't necessarily get to hear a complete version of events from an interested party.
                    Just wanted to copy this because it's important enough to repeat.
                    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people.
                    W. C. Fields

                    Comment

                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Tini Sea Soldier View Post
                      Quite honestly... how are you a horse owner if you can't come up with $450???

                      I feel for the horse in the matter... bc if there is ever a medical emergency... clearly the horse is going to suffer, bc how is this owner going to afford the bills??? How about shoes??? If they're not paying board... my guess is that the budget isn't exactly there for proper farrier care or veterinary care either.
                      I find this point somewhat silly since I can keep a horse for a whole year on $450. Not all horses need shoes and anybody that has two grains of sense and a strong back can learn to trim. Wormer costs less than $3 a tube. A vaccine that covers all the stuff likely to kill a horse if they get it costs less than $10. In 30 years and multiple horses the whole time, I've had the vet here on an emergency basis exactly twice.

                      Comment

                      • #31
                        Originally posted by greysandbays View Post
                        I find this point somewhat silly since I can keep a horse for a whole year on $450.
                        Not true. Cost of land and property tax, maintenence of grounds, a percentage of the barn building cost, a percentage of the tractor cost, plus labor, etc. is way more than $450/horse

                        Comment

                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Sonesta View Post
                          I am an equine attorney and would ask that you guys please do not make statements like this, as you can be very misleading.

                          Every state has different laws and rules in this area. What are the proper steps in one state do not necessarily apply in another.

                          For example above, the poster said "BO can NOT legally "hold" the horse at the farm. IF they show up with a trailer- BO MUST let owner take the horse. The board bill is a civil matter. Withholding the horse from the owner is a criminal act and BO could be arrested. "

                          NOT TRUE in many/most states. The BO can hold the horse and the owner cannot take the horse without paying. Such in the law in Texas. and many other states.

                          There are NO hard and fast rules. Call at attorney in YOUR state to found the laws and rules that apply to barns in that state.

                          Which is why I stated to check PA statue where she is located and to call local authorities. I in no way gave legal advice.

                          I quoted my personal experience- which happened to be in a certain town in PA.

                          I was assuming OP would follow advice to check up on what she can/can't do and not follow one persons past experience. But.... it is good for her to know that there may/may not be a law that prevents BO from snatching the horse- most people do not understand they have rights. Not that I know (by any means!) all of those rights- I just know that people need to look into what is right/legal in certain situations....

                          Comment

                          • #33
                            Originally posted by take_a_deep_breathe View Post
                            Thanks to you all...

                            I am not friends with this person, he just boards at my barn. He actually is trying to sell the horse, but hasn't had any luck just yet as the horse needs a very advance rider as he can be on the hot side at times.
                            Another way to interpret this is that the horse is a poorly broke and/or ill trained puke. This will adversely affect market value.


                            Originally posted by take_a_deep_breathe View Post
                            His concern was that the BO wants to sell the horse for $1,000 to someone and is going to keep the $550 profit. (Trust me the BO is no good!) That's why the BO is trying to hide the horse from the owner, because he is afraid if he finds a seller for the horse- he is not going to be making the sale profit on the horse. He is just going to be getting the back board.
                            In liens the old adage that "possetion is nine points of the law" is absolutely true. Personal property liens are generally lost if the owner regains physical custody of property. This does not mean that there are not other consequences (including possible criminal prosecution for theft; yes, you can be guilty of stealing your own stuff ). It does mean that the BO, in this case, ought to take precautions against an owner removing the horse while nobody is around.

                            If the BO is "no good" why would anybody deal with them? IMO life is too long to deal with thieves, charletains, mountbanks, cut purses, etc.

                            Originally posted by take_a_deep_breathe View Post
                            So, he wanted to know what the legal process was that the BO had to go through to get his horse!
                            Then he should ask a lawyer in PA.

                            Horses are luxury goods. If you can't afford them then don't have them.

                            G.
                            Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                            Comment

                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
                              Not true. Cost of land and property tax, maintenence of grounds, a percentage of the barn building cost, a percentage of the tractor cost, plus labor, etc. is way more than $450/horse
                              Not around here it isn't. For me personally, the land was free and clear years ago (bought when "expensive" land was $200 an acre), property tax is minimal, grounds maintenance consists of letting the old horse loose to mow the lawn, no barn that didn't come with the property, tractor is a 25 year old wheelbarrow, and my labor is doing what I feel like doing.

                              Feed is fairly cheap. Vets are few and far between and you might not even be able to get one to come in an "emergency", so it doesn't matter much if you can afford it or not. Biggest budget buster is if the horse dies and you need the backhoe guy. That's $100.

                              Point being: the post I quoted is silly in that it assumes that $450 is peanuts that everybody who has a horse needs to have laying around in petty cash to be thrown around with no thought to the budget and that a horse would automatically be deprived and suffer if such was not the case.

                              Comment

                              • #35
                                Originally posted by showhorsegallery View Post
                                Your friend should come up with the back owed board somehow. $450 isn't really that much. If they can't afford board they shouldn't own a horse.

                                It's unfair for the Barn Owner to have to take up the care of someone else's horse for free.

                                .

                                Yes. Yes. Yes! I do not have ANY sympathy for your friend, sorry I don't. Too much of this stuff going on. PAY for your horse! Do not make it a burden for the BO. That is just not ok!

                                I do not think the BO can just keep the horse. But, I am really not sure on that either. Worst part is you have a deadbeat owner who has a horse that is unusable to anyone. Now, why should the BO be stuck with that?

                                Comment

                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by greysandbays View Post
                                  Not around here it isn't. For me personally, the land was free and clear years ago (bought when "expensive" land was $200 an acre), property tax is minimal, grounds maintenance consists of letting the old horse loose to mow the lawn, no barn that didn't come with the property, tractor is a 25 year old wheelbarrow, and my labor is doing what I feel like doing.

                                  Feed is fairly cheap. Vets are few and far between and you might not even be able to get one to come in an "emergency", so it doesn't matter much if you can afford it or not. Biggest budget buster is if the horse dies and you need the backhoe guy. That's $100.
                                  Good LORD! Why do I get the creepy picture of an old dirt farmer with neglected old structures on the property and a horse in need of a vet, but without one, trying not to die and hoping he will not be the next one needing the "backhoe guy"!

                                  That may not be at all what your farm is truly like, but that is the picture I have in my mind's eye now that I read your post! If any of you have ever seen "Courage, the Cowardly Dog", you'll know the kind of "dirt farm" I am speaking of
                                  Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people.
                                  W. C. Fields

                                  Comment

                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by DiablosHalo View Post
                                    most people do not understand they have rights. Not that I know (by any means!) all of those rights- I just know that people need to look into what is right/legal in certain situations....
                                    They do have rights. They have the right to pay for THEIR horse's expenses. If they can't afford to do that, find another place BEFORE incurring the bill <since board is due before service, they knew their finances when they were not owing this money>. Find a cheaper way to keep the horse, find a lessee, re-home, or put the horse down. The barn owner did not agree to be a finance company.

                                    If they can't afford to pay, get their butt out to the barn and work off what they can. If the horse owner shows serious interest in helping, the barn owner will go MUCH further to wait than if the horse is basically abandoned. Let them see the horse owner is putting up signs to groom someone's horse, bathe them, treat their rainrot for money.

                                    Grow up! Be responsible!

                                    Comment

                                    • #38
                                      graysandbays- you might be able to keep a horse for less than $450 a year but in the context of this conversation we are discussing a boarded horse.
                                      I don't know of anybody that can board a horse for $450 a year or less. That is $37.50 per month.
                                      Even if we weren't talking a boarded horse the majority of the people on this board likely need to feed some hay, some grain and might feel the need to give more than the absolute basic shots depending on the area of the country they are in (West Nile, Potomac horse, strangles, botulism come to mind)

                                      It is a small minority that could keep a horse in a reasonable condition for $450 or less- a very small minority.

                                      Also not everybody can do all the vet things if a horse gets ill or injured. Heck an injury that requires a fair amount of wrapping can cost you $50 or more in topical ointment, antibiotics, gauze, vet wrap, duct tape etc....
                                      Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                                      Comment

                                      • #39
                                        OK- maybe I did not express myself in the right manner.

                                        I'm in no way giving legal advice.

                                        I'm in NO way siding with the boarder.

                                        If anything I'm on BO side, as I own a farm w/boarding clients myself- and am not nice when it comes to unpaid board. The original poster seemed stressed and maybe I was just trying to get her to understand that she may not have to get railroaded. I know if I was much younger and wasn't familiar how the world turns- I would be easily intimidated by a redneck BO that was trying to swipe my horse. Even if I did owe board.

                                        One of my boarders got behind 2 months (for the tune of over $3k)- we worked it out and I gave him time to catch up so he could move the horse. I didn't lose a nickel- or any respect. In that situation- I was not legally allowed to hold the horse. The police here said if I held the horse, I would be arrested as that is a criminal act. Was just letting her know there are options.

                                        Comment

                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by DiablosHalo View Post
                                          I agree- short answer yes BUT BO has to do it legally.

                                          NOTE: I went through this with a boarder and found out:

                                          BO can NOT legally "hold" the horse at the farm. IF they show up with a trailer- BO MUST let owner take the horse. The board bill is a civil matter. Withholding the horse from the owner is a criminal act and BO could be arrested.
                                          Sorry to break it to you but - THAT is legal advice.
                                          ... _. ._ .._. .._

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