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Which is more mild, jointed or solid kimberwick bit??

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  • Which is more mild, jointed or solid kimberwick bit??

    Upon advice from a few riding buddies I got a kimberwick to try. I bought a solid bar rather than a jointed one, but my one friend said the solid bar kimberwick is actually more severe than a jointed one. Is this true? I hate to ask this if it's already been asked but when I did a search a mulitude of threads came up & it'd take me forever to sort thru them for the answer I'm seeking. Thank you for your time, Lisa

  • #2
    First off, be prepared for a train wreck- most people around here don't like them and would rather see a horse in a snaffle or a pelham.

    That said, Right now my mare's bit of choice is a low port kimberwicke. She prefers this bit and goes very well in it- She is not a big fan of single jointed bits or pelhams. I am using it for the time being until I can find another 'more traditional' bit that she likes- but if she is happy then I am happy. FWIW my mare is an all around horse, and being trained as such goes with very light contact.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think a low port kimberwick is milder than a jointed one.
      My mare goes beautifully in a low port and hates any broken bit. Even the french link causes her to fume and fuss.
      You really do not get much leverage at all with a low port kimberwick.

      In my younger days all the horses HAD to go in a snaffle. Didn't matter if they hated it that's what they had to have until they were ready to go into a double bridle. I'm so glad I'm past that now.
      You know why cowboys don't like Appaloosas?" - Answer: Because to train a horse, you have to be smarter than it is.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Thanks for the heads up on the train wreck, eww I hope not. I bought a low port kimberwick, my mare nearly pulls my arms from their sockets when she's feeling good & strong & it makes it very hard to rate her speed. I normally ride her in a aluminum short shank hackamore which she goes very well in until... we start doing her big ol road trot down the trail or canter then she just leans into the bridle. Right now I'm just trying to find what makes her happy & has the best results. Thank you for your help.

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        • #5
          I will never ever EVER use a jointed kimberwick. It is lousy design. If your horse needs more control than a simple joint snaffle can provide, and you don't know how to use a pelham correctly (by the way, a pelham is never jointed either. A pelham has solid mouth piece), and have to use a kimberwick, use a solid mouth piece like you have.

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          • #6
            Never say never, LOL

            http://www.thefind.com/sports/info-jointed-pelham-bit
            Icelandics - Tolt-ally wonderful!

            Comment


            • #7
              Not sure if your bit sides have the slots, or are just D's. They both can be referred to as Kimberwicks. If you get picky, the slotted D side is called an Uxeter, and is the more useful choice. You can put the rein in the slot, and get some (not much) true curb chain pressure! With the smooth D sides, the rein just slides up and down, giving you a straight pull, no actual curb chain movement or action.

              I do think you got the better bit with a solid mouthpiece, not the broken mouthed one. Bit bar stays balanced in horse mouth better, does not fold to poke the upper palate or pinch the lower jaw when the reins are pulled.

              I am not a big fan of broken mouthed bits, consider ring side, smooth mouth, thick snaffles a step in training to the responsive, finished horse wearing curb bits lightly. And I do NOT consider any of the fancy, nasty or modified mouthpiece bits, with ring sides to be kindly, even if they do fall in the "snaffle" catagory.

              You need to maintain control with your horse, in all situations, at any speed.
              With your description of her pulling your arms out, it sounds like you BOTH need to go back and PRACTICE give and take, reward and her gently taking the bit, staying LIGHT in your hands. A horse can only PULL, if you HOLD onto them! They will LET YOU hold them up all day, less work for them. Getting her responsive, may take some work, NEVER letting her win by hanging on her face.

              Mouths are made and TRAINED, with reward and consistant light hands on the reins. It is possible to reeducate a puller in exciting situations! If you like her going full out, big trot, cantering on trails, open spaces, I would probably go to a Western style mechanical hackamore. No pressure on her mouth, very different than her bitted bridle. Longer shanks will give you more control because of leverage, so you don't have to hang on the reins all the time, making her unresponsive. She would learn that faster gaits are allowed, not punished when this bridle is on her, you still have control and can relax. Then use the bitted bridle for your ring work, schooling, where she needs to be quite responsive to ALL the aids.

              My daughter uses a mechanical hackamore with maybe 6" shanks, rubber covered noseband with sheepskin over it, no mouthpiece, for gaming the horse. He LOVES that bridle, gets quite UP, because he knows things will be moving faster, some speed to look forward to, even if it is only big trotting his patterns. She can pull hard and not hurt him, not hang on him for speed control needed in games. They are happy partners. Same horse goes in the Uxeter Kimberwick with a low port for Equitation, Pleasure, pattern riding, over fences classes in a very controlled manner, LIGHT on the bit and her hands. She is NOT allowed to be hanging on his face. Give and take, just him holding the mouth, feeling how much she will give him to control things. Lift the reins and he shortens, give him rein, squeeze knees and he moves out, looking for the bit contact. All in being consistant, when you ride and train. Works riding English or Western, trained is trained.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Thokki View Post
                Ahh yes. The English model of the western Tom Thumb "training" bit. You can ride and train a horse to do anything with this bit!! Everything old is new again.

                We rode with Pelhams, but they had solid mouthpieces. Horses mostly went on the snaffle reins, but could get strong riding with others. So if you NEEDED the curb pressure, you had it in your hand, ignored the rest of the time. I always found them a useful bit for many horses.

                Quite unlike the ring sided bits with the horrendous edged mouthpieces, tiny diameter, or other nasty surprises lurking behind the horse lips. Used to maintian a semblance of control for rider, while pretending to be a kindly style snaffle. "Because everyone KNOWS that snaffle bits are GENTLE!" Folks trying to appear as if their horse "goes in a snaffle" because of current bit fashion.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Then there are the ones who use the lower rings or slots on Kimberwick or Elevator with one set of reins. Do they not know there is NO release from pressure? Seen it in eventing, don't get it. And if you're using one set only in the large ring...why not just use a snaffle?

                  Read somewhere that a rider was in a George Morris clinic with an elevator bit and only one set of reins. He told her to get off of her horse and leave the arena. Or so I read. Sounds good, at least.

                  We actually prefer a Baucher bit for a little more oompf, but one of our horses hates it. So, use what works for your horse, but know why you are using it, and how to use it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                    Then there are the ones who use the lower rings or slots on Kimberwick or Elevator with one set of reins. Do they not know there is NO release from pressure? Seen it in eventing, don't get it. And if you're using one set only in the large ring...why not just use a snaffle?

                    Read somewhere that a rider was in a George Morris clinic with an elevator bit and only one set of reins. He told her to get off of her horse and leave the arena. Or so I read. Sounds good, at least.

                    We actually prefer a Baucher bit for a little more oompf, but one of our horses hates it. So, use what works for your horse, but know why you are using it, and how to use it.
                    I don't know about Eventing, but for the "western horse gone english" types, riding in a kimberwicke or even a pelham (gasp!) with one rein on the bottom is no big deal, as the horse is ridden off a loose rein. I know that's not the intended use of a pelham, but I've seen it done.

                    As for actual, true english horses that are expected to go along with direct contact.. yeah, a kimberwicke isn't the best choice. But if you cue then release, and don't have a direct contact with your reins, I've got no problem with it.
                    Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Thokki View Post
                      Yeah I know some people call those things pelham. Just like some people claim anything with broken mouth piece to be snaffle. Duh.. Doesn't make them right though.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sublimequine View Post
                        I don't know about Eventing, but for the "western horse gone english" types, riding in a kimberwicke or even a pelham (gasp!) with one rein on the bottom is no big deal, as the horse is ridden off a loose rein. I know that's not the intended use of a pelham, but I've seen it done.

                        As for actual, true english horses that are expected to go along with direct contact.. yeah, a kimberwicke isn't the best choice. But if you cue then release, and don't have a direct contact with your reins, I've got no problem with it.
                        Ah, but I'm not talking about a loose rein...constant contact.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mysaygrace View Post
                          Upon advice from a few riding buddies I got a kimberwick to try. I bought a solid bar rather than a jointed one, but my one friend said the solid bar kimberwick is actually more severe than a jointed one. Is this true? I hate to ask this if it's already been asked but when I did a search a mulitude of threads came up & it'd take me forever to sort thru them for the answer I'm seeking. Thank you for your time, Lisa
                          The mildest bit is the one in the softest hand.

                          I think you're asking the wrong question. The right question is "what do I want to do with the horse?" Then, based upon that answer, pick a bit that helps you get there.

                          Just for fun (and maybe not fun for you) have someone video you riding in one or more different bits. Then review the video and see that's working and what's not. But be prepared to look at yourself and go "Eeeeuuuu!!!!" if your riding ability is not up to par. Then fix that before you mess with any more bit changes.

                          Good luck in your quest.

                          G.
                          Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gloria View Post
                            Yeah I know some people call those things pelham. Just like some people claim anything with broken mouth piece to be snaffle. Duh.. Doesn't make them right though.
                            What do you call those bits then?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                              What do you call those bits then?

                              I call them "nasty." You take a contact, you get the snaffle nutcracker (single joint) combined with curb chain and poll pressure. Nice. Sure, if you have good hands you can ride a horse in anything, but if you (generic you, nothing personal) pick this bit, one does start to wonder about the rider and the horse's training/problems, whatever.

                              My first event horse got a little strong x-c. I rode him in a TRUE Tom Thumb pelham - extremely short shank, SOLID rubber mouthpiece, not the aberration that western people, particularly, seem to call a Tom Thumb. Once, after a little schooling, he and I got on the same page, I rode x-c on him in a plain snaffle.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                My old App was almost impossible to control when I put him in a regular (was thinner) snaffle. So I got a solid Kimberwicke (no slots) and he was happy as a clam and controlled (er, most of the time, he was a lot of horse in a medium sized package!) Eventually I was able to transition him to a thick egg butt snaffle (think it is called) and that was OK for working but for showing he'd be too strong so back to the kimberwicke.

                                I used a full cheek snaffle on my current old horse and she never did like it much. I was going to try her in the kimberwicke when she went forever lame and it was a moot point. I'm going to try the youngster in the egg butt and see how she goes first.
                                Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

                                Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.

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