Why do people here always advise boarders to LEAVE so quickly?

[Lori B]

writter, I have a great deal of sympathy with the difficulty of horsekeeping in parts of the country where barns are becoming sparser and space is more dear. I totally get it. It's crazy-making to figure out a good place, and when small or medium things go wrong at a place that has worked well for a while, how to address them.

I went to great lengths to keep my mare at a place that we both loved (she was happy and healthy there EXCEPT for a suspensory injury and later some herd bullying issues) because she was chased into a fence by a member of her turnout group repeatedly. I think the COTH advice to move when things go wrong that are serious horse health / safety / care issues is given out of a sense that individual boarders aren't going to be able to change the arrangements at a barn most of the time. But when the choices are scarce, and you spend an hour each way to the barn, it can be very hard.

[Ibex]

I also question when issues are not with the boarding situation, but the boarder. My trainer had someone do an abrupt move-out while we were at a show. The teenager wasn't very social (it's a bit hard when you show up wearing an iPod, don't talk to your peers and are rude to the adults), told her parents that everyone hated her, so they swooped in and "rescued" their little princess.

There was no reason from a horse care or theft issue to pull the move like that, and it was really insulting to the trainer/BO who had bent over backwards for them.

[Ozone]

I have boarded at several barns and NONE were ideal at all.

OK so you have left for reasons too ... so what are you saying here by posting?

[Ozone]

[QUOTE=Woodland;4762570][B]
Now let me also say that the horse's owners spend a FRACTION of the time with their horses that I do. I have people that come out every day for an hour or two faithfully. I have people that do not show up for months at a time. Who do you think it there in between? ME!


We BO's never change we do what we do because we believe we are right - our barn our rules. I spend far more time with your horse than you do - that you can not deny. In fact In my barn with 35 years of boarding other people's horses, i can honestly say horses prefer ME over their owner - because they see ME all the time. Sorry it is how it is. We do it our way because it has been our way for decades.


QUOTE]


AINT THAT THE TRUTH, I feed your horses, I care for them when they get hurt, I give the scratch in the "secret" spot. Your horse loves ME! So, don't tell me what you THINK he needs ... I already know what he needs!

[greenapples]

I have to add, for those that are Barn Owners, the reason to move isn't necessarily because the horses are not happy or well-cared for, but because of changes in the BO's personality, or things have become intolerable on a personal level between the horse owner and the barn owner. These are the most difficult kinds of moves, because there is just not an easy "out" with the situation.


In my case, I would love to keep my horses where they are because the care has always been great and it's very convenient. I spend quite a bit of my spare time helping to take care of a barn full of horses, when only 2 of them are mine. I do everything that the BO does to keep the routine the same, and I'm not compensated for it, other than a very small discount in my board. What I can't handle, is the constant competitive, derrogatory, defamatory and hateful nature of the barn owner that has stemmed from nothing. I'm not the first, nor will I be the last. This person has in effect, run off just about every boarder, barn worker and student that she has ever had, I have just stuck it out the longest, and my buttons have finally been pushed to the max. Sometimes it's more about not being able to handle things on a personal level than anything else. Yes, my horses are happy and well cared for, but dealing with these issues has gone on long enough. When you are a horse owner, afraid to go to the barn when the owner is there, because you don't know what type of mood she will be in, then it's time to leave.

[FineAlready]

I think people generally advise others to leave "immediately" if there is a serious care issue involved (no food, no water, dangerous facilities, etc.) or a totally wacky, insane BO/BM (i.e., this person might cause physical harm to you or your horse). The reason for this is that you can't un-kill a horse, or a person.

I've also advised people to "start looking" for a new place if there is some sort of chronic problem that leads that person to no longer enjoy going to the barn to spend time with thier horse. That's different than "holy crap, get out now!" That's more like, "hey, your current situation isn't working - you should check around and see if something else is out there that may work better for you." Totally different thing.

I once waited "too long" in a situation that probably really was a "holy crap, leave now!" situation in retrospect. I waited because I wasn't sure that I could find somewhere better (and had been searching for a while) and because I really couldn't tell if my horse was unhappy or just young and slightly unruly due to temperment. He was a new horse, and I had never observed him in any other boarding situation. My philosophy was that I was not going to move him to appease my own personal desires - it was always about what would be best FOR HIM. Problem was that I really didn't know what he would prefer, but I was having a hard time thinking that any of the other options I was considering would be preferable to him. I eventually did find a place that was as close to "perfect" as I think I could ever find in a boarding facility. Let me tell you - the change in his attitude was UNBELIEVABLE and immediate. He was like a totally different and much happier horse. If there is ever a next time, I think I will know right away if a given boarding situation is making him unhappy.

Wow - that was long-winded. Anyway, the gist of it is, there are varying degrees of "needing to get out."

[Woodland]

AINT THAT THE TRUTH, I feed your horses, I care for them when they get hurt, I give the scratch in the "secret" spot. Your horse loves ME! So, don't tell me what you THINK he needs ... I already know what he needs!

I was just out scratching a few - funny how i never have trouble catching your horse

No hay for three days Are you certain were you there 72 hours straight? Or did they just clean it up before you got there -

I have a neighboring barn that will bale any patch of weeds he can get for free. He always has tons of hay in his paddocks and stalls the horses will not touch. But the owners LOVE that their horse has hay in front of them at times. He tells people all the time that I "run out of hay". Now an intelligent person can look at the horses here and see they are quite content and well fed - they just don't have baled weeds leftover set in front of them. However if you only come out when it is not meal times you miss that.

One man was on a trail ride with a man from the neighbors barn and never came back. He was told his horse had not had hay here in months - funny how that horse kept his 8 figure and great disposition without anything to eat This was an owner that came out maybe twice a month. Sadly his horse developed heaves from the baled weeds at his new place and had to retire. He did ask to come back - but when you leave like that the door only swings one way.

[Lori B]

There is no need for barn owners to get all 'boarders are stupid / crazy / etc.' in response to this thread. No one said that all barn owners are terrible, but that boarding barns are just flat out scarce in certain parts of the country, and when there's little competition, there's little incentive to be service-oriented.

I think that we can all agree that there are dingbat, dishonest, and deadbeat boarders, and crooked, lazy, nutty boarding barn managers in the world. Both. But that doesn't mean that all boarders are terrible, not does it mean that all barn owners are terrible.

[00pisces]

For me, I believe there are three scenarios that could be causing the trouble (you suspect your horse is being abused, fed improperly, mishandled or otherwise used in an unauthorized way).

1. You and the barn owner have a genuine and unresolvable difference of opinion. If this is the case, then it is the BO's facility and ultimately their call as to whether they will make an exception for you and your horse. Generally, I assume that if it's to the point where you're writing about it here, it's because you either know it's fruitless to try to resolve the issue due to iron clad convictions on both sides, or you have tried and it's not working out.

2. The barn owner is inexperienced and legitimately does not know any better. I assume this is fairly rare, and that it would be obvioius to most people when the barn owner doesn't know much about horsekeeping. If this is the case, then a reasonable person would try to educate the barn owner. It may eventually lead back to the first scenario, but you won't know until you try.

3. The barn owner knows better and doesn't care. This isn't fixable. You may be able to manipulate the situation so that you get the outcome you want over one issue, but another will crop up.

In scenario 1, you have to decide what you can live with. It's probably not going to be a safety issue, so you don't have to leave right now, but you probably will want to eventaully.

In scenario 2, you don't necessarily have to leave, and things might get better. However, it could also deteriorate into scenario 1 or 3, so you might still end up needing to leave.

In scenario 3, you should leave because you're dealing with someone you can't trust. You're the one with the higher level thinking, not the horse, so you're the one who has to make the call.


More than half of the possible scenarios call for a move. I don't know that each of these scenarios is equally likely. I'd say most often it's scenario 1. However, as the advice giver, I don't know which it could be, and I choose to believe that the OP is a reasonable person. When they read 90% of the people say that they should move, they know whether they themselves were just ranting. If they were just ranting, they recognize that scenarios 1 or 2 are likely and they should just talk to the barn owner rather than leave. However, when they are genuinely confused or distraught, and a slew of people say that leaving is the right thing to do, then my hope is that that will give them the gumption to leave the bad situation. Feelilng that you're right and that "everyone thinks so" makes it easier for the person to initiate the incredibly difficult task of finding a new facility and moving a horse.

My assumption when advising moving is that it's going to be hard to find a good place, and that the OP is a reasonable person who needs the conviction that they are doing the right thing. I give the benefit of the doubt that OPs are reasonable. Maybe they aren't. ;-)

However, I do think that if they weren't desperate and didn't feel stuck, they'd be writing the, "How do I ask my BO to fold the blanket, not just dump it on the stall?" post, and not the, "OMG, my barn is terrible, I'm so afraid for my horse!" post.

[spotmenow]

The reason people, most especially BOs are quick to say "leave" is because we are NOT profiting by your horse being here UNLESS you take lessons or pay for training. In my case we don't offer lessons/training and simply board a "few" (5-6 horses) for the tax write off and so that I have someone to ride with. So, if you don't like what we offer or how we do things, find somewhere else that offers all that we do (like midnight checks in the winter with extra hay or carefully maintained and cleaned pastures in the summer).

Anddddd...most of the boarders that post here admit that they a. saw the writing on the wall and chose to ignore it or b. have chosen to value their own comfort over the horse's health (ie. the one who said she couldn't find any other place in her area with an indoor that didn't charge her trainer a ring fee but her horse had lost 100 pounds in a month from lack of decent feed-what should she do?)

So, I don't think any of us are advocating barn-hopping by choice. And I too have my own horror stories from boarding. That is why I bought my own place. And you can take it or leave it

[Rev-Rider]

I have learned, If I don't trust the barn I'm in, I leave, I'll never be happy.
It is less stress on my horse, my SO and myself. I have learned the hard way and have the vet bills to prove it. BM's and BO's are set in there ways. If you don't like there program, find another.
( I'm taking food, water, saftey. Not barn drama or amenities. )

In the end I foot the bills. More $$$ now or vet bills later. I might have to spend more for services. Drive more for a barn I can trust. Find one close, and be out every day, even twice a day, do part or self care. Whatever it takes. My horse , my money, my choice.

[mvp]

I think the BO sentiment that says "My way or the highway" and "By the way, you don't know what you're doing with your own horse" scare us boarders.

I see how you get there. You spend much more time learning day-to-day how to care for horses well. There's also no money in it, so where's the pressure to give good customer service?

But owners need to learn and are entitled to that experience with their own animals, too. The buck ultimately stops with them. They pay the vet bills when things go catastrophically wrong. I have *never* seen a BO step up and offer to help with the costs of a bad situation they helped create. That makes me feel that BOs don't feel accountable, even though they'll say they have the horse's best interest at heart and do better than we mere owners could.

But HOs also need to know that leaving suddenly with the reek of contempt for the BO in the air has fallout. Invariably that bridge will be burned forever. The BO will also, understandably, defend himself or herself to all should the subject of your departure come up.

Smoothness, tact and the recognition that we all live in a glass house works better.

[Woodland]

I think the BO sentiment that says "My way or the highway" and "By the way, you don't know what you're doing with your own horse" scare us boarders.

I see how you get there. You spend much more time learning day-to-day how to care for horses well. There's also no money in it, so where's the pressure to give good customer service?

But owners need to learn and are entitled to that experience with their own animals, too. The buck ultimately stops with them. They pay the vet bills when things go catastrophically wrong. I have *never* seen a BO step up and offer to help with the costs of a bad situation they helped create. That makes me feel that BOs don't feel accountable, even though they'll say they have the horse's best interest at heart and do better than we mere owners could.

But HOs also need to know that leaving suddenly with the reek of contempt for the BO in the air has fallout. Invariably that bridge will be burned forever. The BO will also, understandably, defend himself or herself to all should the subject of your departure come up.

Smoothness, tact and the recognition that we all live in a glass house works better.

Wow where to begin?

#1 I should never have to pay a vet bill on someone else's horse unless the horse was injured due to my negligence - and i have insurance for that.

That does not mean I am irresponsible - it means accidents happen and that it costs a lot of money to own a horse at times.

I personally have paid vet bills for my boarders that could not or would not pay them. Some have never repaid me - but i care about my vet - she is a small business owner as well.

AND I have lent money to cover bill a boarders horse accrued at the vet hospitals a time or two. Accidents HAPPEN. Colics HAPPEN. A horse's owner should be prepared for that inevitability.

#2 Poor customer service? Is that what you call it when we won't change? I do not feel I need to change anything -ever. My stable is run exactly the same way every day in every way. It is as it was when each boarder came through the barn the first day. If that consistency doesn't meet with a certain boarder then, yes take your horse elsewhere. Because I put the horse first every single time over the owner! My service is dedicated to your horse, not you. I am looking after your horse, not you.

And nope. Not for a minute do i think someone who spends 2 hours a day with their horse knows him as well as I do. That is my job. You hired me to do that job. And I do it very well.

Not for a moment will I take advice from someone who read something in a magazine and comes to see their horse once a week. I will explain why. But again I say "you hired me to do what is right by your horse. That magazine does not know your horse. I do".

Do I scare you? Well some people can not fathom the amount of time I spend in the barn each and every day. My shoer was here today. I have been in the barn since 8 AM with him. No owners came out. But I can tell you every angle, every contour every crack in each horses foot to the degree. It's my job! Most owners can not - even though it is on their bill.

I can tell you to the ounce how much grain a horse gets and of what type. Which supplements he gets and why and how much. And if they are working or not. I know how he dirties his stall and can tell you if his "production" numbers are down. I know which hay he prefers and how much he needs. I know if he prefers to drink from a bucket or tough and how much he drinks per day. I KNOW when he is feeling off. I KNOW when he is lame. I KNOW when he is having a great day and when he is not. I KNOW that I can call him by name in the pasture and he will come to me. Why? Because HE trusts me!

It's my JOB. I take it very seriously because i love it. I have nearly 5 DECADES into it. Longevity in THIS business is a rarity. And it speaks volumes! If that level of dedication is frightening to you - WOW why would you hire someone like me in the first place then?

If you feel it's better to go with someone who will give in to your every whim even if it is contrary to the animals well being THAT scares me! And you would not believe what some owners come up with!!! Even when i try to explain why or recommend they talk to their vet i have gotten resistance - the power of advertising!

I have very very low turn over here. I am very hands on. I have a very small operation of under 20 horses. I have been called the dragon lady a time or two. BUT my horses are safe, they are happy and they are content. My dedication does not waiver from them. I can not imagine why that would scare someone ...

[BuddyRoo]

Woodland, I wish this weren't true, but you truly ARE an exception lady!

I am truly blessed with a BO that I think is on par with you as far as her knowledge and commitment to the horses...but many...neigh (ha!) most that I've come into contact with are NOT that way.

The flip side though is that I think there really are a lot of owners who are pretty out of touch with what is best for the horse. So I can see what you're saying....but, as someone who has had horses my entire life and done self care or had them at home for the majority of that time, I can honestly say that I do feel I know my horses well enough to be making decisions about them. Of course, I am happy to take into account what my BO thinks, but if we were really on opposite end of the spectrum on a particular issue that I felt strongly about, I would either insist that it be done as I asked or I would go elsewhere.

I am sure I'm not alone in feeling that I know my horse...having spent all but 3 of her nearly 20 years taking care of her daily myself.

[Alagirl]

Wow where to begin?

#1 I should never have to pay a vet bill on someone else's horse unless the horse was injured due to my negligence - and i have insurance for that.

That does not mean I am irresponsible - it means accidents happen and that it costs a lot of money to own a horse at times.

I personally have paid vet bills for my boarders that could not or would not pay them. Some have never repaid me - but i care about my vet - she is a small business owner as well.

AND I have lent money to cover bill a boarders horse accrued at the vet hospitals a time or two. Accidents HAPPEN. Colics HAPPEN. A horse's owner should be prepared for that inevitability.

#2 Poor customer service? Is that what you call it when we won't change? I do not feel I need to change anything -ever. My stable is run exactly the same way every day in every way. It is as it was when each boarder came through the barn the first day. If that consistency doesn't meet with a certain boarder then, yes take your horse elsewhere. Because I put the horse first every single time over the owner! My service is dedicated to your horse, not you. I am looking after your horse, not you.

And nope. Not for a minute do i think someone who spends 2 hours a day with their horse knows him as well as I do. That is my job. You hired me to do that job. And I do it very well.

Not for a moment will I take advice from someone who read something in a magazine and comes to see their horse once a week. I will explain why. But again I say "you hired me to do what is right by your horse. That magazine does not know your horse. I do".

Do I scare you? Well some people can not fathom the amount of time I spend in the barn each and every day. My shoer was here today. I have been in the barn since 8 AM with him. No owners came out. But I can tell you every angle, every contour every crack in each horses foot to the degree. It's my job! Most owners can not - even though it is on their bill.

I can tell you to the ounce how much grain a horse gets and of what type. Which supplements he gets and why and how much. And if they are working or not. I know how he dirties his stall and can tell you if his "production" numbers are down. I know which hay he prefers and how much he needs. I know if he prefers to drink from a bucket or tough and how much he drinks per day. I KNOW when he is feeling off. I KNOW when he is lame. I KNOW when he is having a great day and when he is not. I KNOW that I can call him by name in the pasture and he will come to me. Why? Because HE trusts me!

It's my JOB. I take it very seriously because i love it. I have nearly 5 DECADES into it. Longevity in THIS business is a rarity. And it speaks volumes! If that level of dedication is frightening to you - WOW why would you hire someone like me in the first place then?

If you feel it's better to go with someone who will give in to your every whim even if it is contrary to the animals well being THAT scares me! And you would not believe what some owners come up with!!! Even when i try to explain why or recommend they talk to their vet i have gotten resistance - the power of advertising!

I have very very low turn over here. I am very hands on. I have a very small operation of under 20 horses. I have been called the dragon lady a time or two. BUT my horses are safe, they are happy and they are content. My dedication does not waiver from them. I can not imagine why that would scare someone ...

Sadly, not all BO/BMs are that way.

I mean, one can get uber anal about care details, but once you wean a horse off of water, you are usually not going to enjoy him long.

There are the barns that have to run their grain through a mill, so the clients can't easily see what crap it is.

Or that have 2 sets of rules for the facilities: for boarders and self. You know, no turnout if a cloud is in the sky, but the BO's own horses are out in the driving rain.

the manager who tries to convince the boarders that seeing the ribs of the horse is good.

On the up side...

If a Pepperoni came to a BB complaining about how her BO would not allow her to do her crazy -ality stuffs, you would have to agree it would be best for her to move on to a more veggie shtick accepting environment.

Just chalk it up to all the crazies that make the headlines giving you a bad rep by association. But if the customer does not fit in the program, the best option is for them to leave. It will - in most cases, not get better.

[Alagirl]

Woodland, I wish this weren't true, but you truly ARE an exception lady!

I am truly blessed with a BO that I think is on par with you as far as her knowledge and commitment to the horses...but many...neigh (ha!) most that I've come into contact with are NOT that way.

The flip side though is that I think there really are a lot of owners who are pretty out of touch with what is best for the horse. So I can see what you're saying....but, as someone who has had horses my entire life and done self care or had them at home for the majority of that time, I can honestly say that I do feel I know my horses well enough to be making decisions about them. Of course, I am happy to take into account what my BO thinks, but if we were really on opposite end of the spectrum on a particular issue that I felt strongly about, I would either insist that it be done as I asked or I would go elsewhere.

I am sure I'm not alone in feeling that I know my horse...having spent all but 3 of her nearly 20 years taking care of her daily myself.

What she said.

[Montanas_Girl]

And nope. Not for a minute do i think someone who spends 2 hours a day with their horse knows him as well as I do. That is my job. You hired me to do that job. And I do it very well.

If you were my BO, you might spend 10 minutes a day with my horse when you filled the water tank or carried hay out to the pasture. I have owned one of my horses for 10 years and the other for 3, primarily in self care or semi-self care situations. I have always been the one to feed, turn in/out, blanket, and otherwise care for my horses 99+% of the time. Even in "full care" boarding situations, the BO brings the horse in and out, changes the blanket, dumps feed, and sometimes cleans the stall. The OWNER rides the horse, grooms the horse, spends time with the horse, hand grazes him after a bath, etc.

I can tell you to the ounce how much grain a horse gets and of what type. Which supplements he gets and why and how much. And if they are working or not. I know how he dirties his stall and can tell you if his "production" numbers are down. I know which hay he prefers and how much he needs. I know if he prefers to drink from a bucket or tough and how much he drinks per day. I KNOW when he is feeling off. I KNOW when he is lame. I KNOW when he is having a great day and when he is not. I KNOW that I can call him by name in the pasture and he will come to me. Why? Because HE trusts me!

I also know this about both of my horses, better than any BO/BM EVER will, because I only have to pay attention to two horses, while he/she may have 10-40 horses to be concerned with. My horses come to me when I call them because I am the one who feeds them, grooms them, rides them, holds them for the vet or farrier, doctors their injuries, fly sprays them, etc. No BO I have EVER known has spent 1/100th of the time with any of the horses under his/her care that I spend with mine. It is not practical or even possible in most cases.

You do sound like an exceptional BO, but you are NOT the rule. I would leave any boarding barn, no matter how nice, in a heartbeat if the BO tried to tell me what was best for the horse I have been managing for 10 years.

[BuddyRoo]

MG--I think Woodland's point is that she ISN'T the BO who spends only 10 min a day with a horse and therefore, she IS qualified to have opinions.

My BO is pretty amazing. My mare has some interesting quirks that I can honestly say, no other BO EVER has mentioned. This one has noticed. There's no way she could know unless she'd spent some time with my horse BEYOND feeding/watering/turning out. She KNOWS my horse. And as such, if she had a concern I'd certainly listen.

But I, like you, HAVE boarded places where I'm not entirely sure the BO could've picked my horse out of a line up and had no idea. Those are the barns where you show up and your horse is sick or injured and no one has noticed.

There's a big difference.

[Dressage Art]

Sure MOVE I will rarely miss an owner.

This is the attitude that I see in some barns. Some BOs really don't care about owners feedback, and if owners would move out, they would not miss them at all, since there will be new ones to take their place.

if the customer does not fit in the program, the best option is for them to leave. It will - in most cases, not get better.

Also true. If BO believes that 2 flakes per day is plenty of food for any horse or horses need shavings only to absorb their pee and not for comfort = there is no reasoning. It's an inconsolable differences and quiet divorce is the best outcome. But if the boarder is quiet, it doesn't mean that the BO will be quiet some of the drunken ones or pot loving ones are nuts and will not get shy of mud wrestling just to proof that they are right!

PS: most of the barns around here are 50-150 horses.

[onthebit]

OP if you seriously live in an area where your boarding options are so severely limited to the point that your only option is to continue boarding at a place that doesn't feed your horse for 3-4 days then that is a huge problem. If I woke up and found myself in that scenario I would have to either:

1. rearrange my entire life to do a self care situation
2. rearrange my entire life to buy my own small acreage
3. sell the horse and not have a horse in that area
4. move

Maybe I was just lucky but in my 20 years of being a boarder I never had any of the experiences I read about here. If I gave notice to a barn my horse received the same care during his last 30 days there as during the first 30 days there. My horses were always fed and had water. They were blanketed appropriately, the stalls were cleaned, they were turned out as scheduled, etc. The care my horses received was exactly the care I was told they would receive on the front end, from the first day to the last. There may have been things I didn't love, in a couple of situations I certainly wished for more turnout, but I KNEW ON THE FRONT END what the turnout situation was. I think a lot of people go into boarding situations thinking they will modify things they don't like once they are moved in. Wrong.

I've never met a horseman that did not provide proper care to the horses. I've boarded at big show barns and private barns. I am now a BO myself and read these threads and am thankful I cannot relate to them on any level. I would NEVER give less care to a horse because an owner gave notice. I was out in the driving rain for 3 hours this morning feeding pasture horses. Believe me I would have preferred to be in the house but it comes with the job and I signed up for it. I've been out in the rain feeding horses when I was so sick with pneumonia I could hardly walk, but I got out there and got the job done.

As I've said before my personal problems, whether they be illness, death in the family, etc. are not my boarder's problems. My board contract does not say I provide X services except on the days that I'm sick or a relative dies. It sucks sometimes but that is part of taking care of horses. Thankfully when I boarded the BO/BM's that I dealt with had the same attitude. I never worried about my horses' care. I would never expect a BO to pay for my horse's vet bills - colics happen even with immaculate care. That's life.