Thoughts on Tire Kicker-age

[ESG]

I think you're being a little silly here. Who here would expect someone to commit to buy, before ever seeing the horse?

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=ESG;4764407]I think you're being a little silly here. Who here would expect someone to commit to buy, before ever seeing the horse?[/QUOTE

"you should know before someone gets to your farm if they have the money to buy"

per EqTrainer

I thought that meant the seller is asking the buyer to have the money before you come look, ie: gets to your farm.

[xQHDQ]

Now see, that's a tire kicker's argument, to me. If you find a horse you want to lease/buy, you do it, if you're serious. The whole "I have an obligation to someone whose horse I want to look at, that I've never met" is fluff. If you don't like the leaser's/seller's horse, just tell them! Don't even keep them hanging "until Wednesday" because you think you owe someone else a visit. A simple phone call to other leasers/sellers to the effect of, "I really appreciate you being willling to show me your horse, but I've found something else that I like" will suffice. Have some common sense and courtesy!

I don't agree. Sometimes you like the horse but are not in love. There's nothing wrong with looking at a few and picking among them. Sometimes you don't appreciate something until you see what else is out there. Price also plays a role. Horse A is great but is $10,000. You have an appointment to see Horse B who sounds great but you don't know and he's only $6,000. Giving until Wednesday is very courteous.

[EqTrainer]

Yup, I don't expect them to come to my farm w/20k in their pocket, cash.. I do expect to have a frank conversation about their financial ability to pay for this horse at the advertised price. I think people in general are uncomfortable talking about money and therefore don't have this conversation... so many people report advertising a horse for, let's say 10k, and having people come ride it and then say they want it but only have 5k to spend...

that doesn't happen if you ask them their financial status in this transaction first. This is also when I establish if the horse is negotiable or not - usually not unless something comes up on PPE that would render the horse unsuitable for the job initially intended BUT the buyer wants to buy anyway.

So much easier to get this stuff out of the way. I usually sell to the first person who tries the horse, I would rather screen heavily and perhaps miss a sale then waste a lot of my time w/people who are not qualified to buy the horse.

[ESG]

I don't agree. Sometimes you like the horse but are not in love. There's nothing wrong with looking at a few and picking among them. Sometimes you don't appreciate something until you see what else is out there. Price also plays a role. Horse A is great but is $10,000. You have an appointment to see Horse B who sounds great but you don't know and he's only $6,000. Giving until Wednesday is very courteous.

I'm not saying that one shouldn't look. The poster to whom I was responding sounded like the first horse she'd looked at was exactly what she wanted, but she was still dithering about committing, only because she had appointments to see others. That's silly, and smacks of tire-kicking to me. My opinion, only.

[mvp]

I can't imagine a seller asking me if I actually had the cash. Wasn't that implicit when I called you up? I just think the convo would be redundant and might unnecessarily offend the buyer.

Besides, what will you get except a restatement of what was implied? The person will lie about their bank balance just as they implicitly did at the outset right?

Now put the shoe on the other foot. "Are you sure he's 16 h.?" Or "I'll need proof."

[Xanthoria]

Horses are highly individual. The relationship between horse and rider is too. Just because a horse is the right size, age and price doesn't mean you will actually like it!

You don't go into a car dealership and go for a test drive only to have the salesperson harangue you into buying it: "you drove it! it's red, just like you wanted! you are wasting my time if you don't buy it!"

The relationship between you and the horse a lot longer and more intricate than a car. And yet somehow you're supposed to make an on the spot decision about it? I'd rather err on the side of caution and say no than regret it for the next 15 years.

Seriously, think of it compared to other items for sale in life - horses are almost the only thing that you spend so much money on with so little time to decide. Short of a house! (seriously, next house I buy I am going to spend a night in it to see if it's noisy before I plonk down my half a mill....)

As for sellers who spend a lot of time prepping their sales horse each time a buyer comes out, well hah. So many I have seen have been dragged muddy from the field.

You're about to make some dough - is it really that irksome to have to do something to get it? Or should buyers just quietly come to the end of your drive with a duffel bag of unmarked bills, silently take the leadrope from you and shuffle off never to be seen again?

[pj]

I'm not saying that one shouldn't look. The poster to whom I was responding sounded like the first horse she'd looked at was exactly what she wanted, but she was still dithering about committing, only because she had appointments to see others. That's silly, and smacks of tire-kicking to me. My opinion, only.

I got the impression that the poster had no intention of buying for some months but wanted to look anyhow. Now THAT to me is a tire kicker. If you go look at a bunch of horses and know that no way no how are you going to buy one no matter how wonderful...that's NOT a serious buyer. Tire kicker just enjoying looking at horses.

[ThirdCharm]

If you try a horse tomorrow and he is perfectly as described and you can/will pay for him and take him home, then you are not a tire kicker.

If you try a horse tomorrow and he is perfectly as described and you can't pay for him, don't have a place to keep him, can't ride him, or have unrealistic expectations (such as, 15 year old 4' packer is supposed to be 100% clean on the vet check), then you're a tire kicker.

Jennifer

[EqTrainer]

.

I can't imagine a seller asking me if I actually had the cash. Wasn't that implicit when I called you up? I just think the convo would be redundant and might unnecessarily offend the buyer.

Well now MVP you would THINK that it was implied, now wouldn't you? But apparently it is not. Lots of people "shop" for horses and don't have the money, or enough money at that time, to pay for them. If it offends them, well... I don't care. Trust me, they are going to offend ME at some point during this transaction we might as well begin on the right foot, no?

Besides, what will you get except a restatement of what was implied? The person will lie about their bank balance just as they implicitly did at the outset right?

Oddly enough I think the question takes them off guard enough that they don't lie. But think about it.. when you go to buy a car, don't they ask you if you need to trade one in to buy the next one? When you contact a real estate agent, don't they ask you if you are ready to buy, if you need to sell a house to do so, if you will need special financing, etc. etc. etc...

it's just a matter of clarifying what the facts are, not the fantasies.

And if someone says no, but I have $$ then I can say whether or not I would even consider selling this horse for that sum.. and if they say no, they need to sell one first then I can decline to show them my horse until their horse is sold and they have money.

Now put the shoe on the other foot. "Are you sure he's 16 h.?" Or "I'll need proof."

Since I have an official AHSA stick and am not afraid to use it, I am always happy to verify a horses height for a seller. Not offended at all if someone asks me if a horse is really 16h, happy to prove it!

[00pisces]

I got the impression that the poster had no intention of buying for some months but wanted to look anyhow. Now THAT to me is a tire kicker. If you go look at a bunch of horses and know that no way no how are you going to buy one no matter how wonderful...that's NOT a serious buyer. Tire kicker just enjoying looking at horses.

There are two people in play here, the OP, and me. The OP is prepared to spend a few months looking to buy. I was looking for a lease and 1) there's just no such thing as "exactly what I was looking for" in my budget and under an hour from Arlington, VA, so it was a matter of figuring out which situation was best for me, and 2) I was saying, I'll let you know on Wednesday if I decide this is the best option for me. Nobody pressed me on that--they were looking for the best rider for their horses too. Telling them that I had appointments and wanted to keep my commitment was just the polite way of explaining my timeframe.

Either way, I'm usually a "sleep on it" kind of girl.

[mvp]

If you know what you want and have done the research that let's you know you can probably find what you want for the money you have, no one should be surprised it if still takes months to find The One.

Even if buyer is accurate and not delusional. Even if the seller is the same, horses still have to pass muster under saddle. "Quiet" or "responsive" are words we all think we understand, but they mean different things when human butt meets horse back. And the beast still must pass a particular DVM's PPE.

It takes time. Don't pounce on the OP for telling the truth about that. I'm assuming that neither she, nor anyone else, is simply making appointments to go ride "comp" type horses, right? There are easier ways to do that kind of research.

[pj]

There are two people in play here, the OP, and me. The OP is prepared to spend a few months looking to buy. I was looking for a lease and 1) there's just no such thing as "exactly what I was looking for" in my budget and under an hour from Arlington, VA, so it was a matter of figuring out which situation was best for me, and 2) I was saying, I'll let you know on Wednesday if I decide this is the best option for me. Nobody pressed me on that--they were looking for the best rider for their horses too. Telling them that I had appointments and wanted to keep my commitment was just the polite way of explaining my timeframe.

Either way, I'm usually a "sleep on it" kind of girl.

Was refering to the op.
Have no problem with buyer or leaser saying let you know on Wed.
Nothing wrong with a buyer who has other horses lined up to try saying so. My only problem is with someone who pretends they are in the market NOW and they know that they are not.

[00pisces]

Was refering to the op.
Have no problem with buyer or leaser saying let you know on Wed.
Nothing wrong with a buyer who has other horses lined up to try saying so. My only problem is with someone who pretends they are in the market NOW and they know that they are not.

The person you were responding to was referring to me. Sorry to rope you in. ;-)

[smay]

OP, I would say you are correctly on track and would NOT be labeled a tire kicker for taking a little bit of time and not buying the first thing you see. This is YOUR perogative. Do not let any sellers pressure you or label you or insult you. They are trying to sell their horse. They must be willing to SHOW the horse to numerous people and yes, that involves cleaning it up, demonstrating it under saddle for you, and HOPEFULLY NOT LYING about said animal! I just completed a search for a new horse for my daughter, and I was extremely annoyed at how put out various sellers were that we would PRESUME to come and look at their horse and not buy it on the spot. And I'd have to say that every one of the horses we did not buy had been incorrectly described by those "tire liars."

[EqTrainer]

I just want to add that I have no problem with everything that goes along w/selling a horse but I won't do it for an unqualified buyer. I don't expect people to buy on the spot, I *want* them to ride the horse more than once, I want them to handle the horse and I want them to have a PPE done.

I just don't want to show my horse to someone who doesn't have the money to buy it or has no intentions of buying any horse at all, even if it's the perfect horse for them. Because they are out there!

[ESG]

I can't imagine a seller asking me if I actually had the cash. Wasn't that implicit when I called you up? I just think the convo would be redundant and might unnecessarily offend the buyer.

Absolutely not implicit. You wouldn't believe the number of people who will come out to try a horse, knowing the price, and still try to pay 30% of the asking price. Always establish (or try to) that your prospective buyer's budget is in line with your sale price.

Besides, what will you get except a restatement of what was implied? The person will lie about their bank balance just as they implicitly did at the outset right?

Sometimes. But often, they just waste your time by trying horses that they know they can't afford.

Now put the shoe on the other foot. "Are you sure he's 16 h.?" Or "I'll need proof."

You'll be about as successful with that as you will getting an honest answer out of a tire kicker.

[ESG]

I got the impression that the poster had no intention of buying for some months but wanted to look anyhow. Now THAT to me is a tire kicker. If you go look at a bunch of horses and know that no way no how are you going to buy one no matter how wonderful...that's NOT a serious buyer. Tire kicker just enjoying looking at horses.

Or, they are the ones that look at $$$$ horses, knowing they're only going to pay $$, and not bothering to inform the sellers of that little fact until they've been back three different times to try the horse. Oh, and then want to take him 400 miles away for a 30 day trial. Ask me how I know this.