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ASPCA hit with racketeering lawsuit

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  • #21
    Also, for what it's worth, the HSUS does run the RAVS program which is pretty well-regarded.

    I don't agree with about 99% of what they do (largely their misleading fundraising), but I do like this program - sends vets, vet students and techs to Indian reservations to do work - it is sometimes the only access to veterinary care that these animals have as very few of the reservations have veterinarians. I just wish HSUS would pour more of their resources into programs like this, and less into animal rights issues.

    http://www.ruralareavet.org/

    I'm going on one of the equine trips this summer - I'll report back if anyone is interested.

    Here is a list of the sanctuaries that HSUS operates.

    http://mymembership.hsvma.org/service

    I guess my point is that nothing is purely black and white. My guess is that some of these (less-publicized) programs would be the first to go if they came into financial difficulty.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by Ben and Me View Post
      Also, for what it's worth, the HSUS does run the RAVS program which is pretty well-regarded.

      I don't agree with about 99% of what they do (largely their misleading fundraising), but I do like this program - sends vets, vet students and techs to Indian reservations to do work - it is sometimes the only access to veterinary care that these animals have as very few of the reservations have veterinarians. I just wish HSUS would pour more of their resources into programs like this, and less into animal rights issues.

      http://www.ruralareavet.org/

      I'm going on one of the equine trips this summer - I'll report back if anyone is interested.

      Here is a list of the sanctuaries that HSUS operates.

      http://mymembership.hsvma.org/service

      I guess my point is that nothing is purely black and white. My guess is that some of these (less-publicized) programs would be the first to go if they came into financial difficulty.
      Do you realize that the HSUS has a cozy $200 MILLION budget, A YEAR?

      I am glad that they spend some in good PR programs, as reported, 1/2 of 1% of that budget goes to direct help to animals.
      That is very nice of them.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by Bluey View Post
        Do you realize that the HSUS has a cozy $200 MILLION budget, A YEAR?

        I am glad that they spend some in good PR programs, as reported, 1/2 of 1% of that budget goes to direct help to animals.
        That is very nice of them.
        Yes, I realize that they have a huge budget and that this is only a tiny percentage. But to the folks on those reservations, this program does make a difference...and also to the veterinary students who get to spend a week honing their surgical skills--veterinary school alone doesn't provide nearly enough practice. And I don't think it's much of a PR program - I don't even know that there is any info on it on their main homepage? Certainly not any that is easy to find.

        No need to be condescending. I'm certainly no fan of the HSUS, or their animal rights stance - I don't think that animal rights has much that is compatible with veterinary medicine.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by JSwan View Post
          It's ALL been a lie. They knew it was a lie. Read it for yourself and learn what these groups did, and what the "witness" lied about.

          Every animal lover in the US should be outraged. What an abuse of our trust, our money, and our love of animals. Think of all the animals that could have been helped with the money spent on this 10 year long litigation.
          Yeah, I believed their garbage, too. Until I spent time 'backstage' with the elephants and trainers at Ringling Bros. Those guys LOVE those animals (like we love our horses - although they respect their size and don't baby them nearly as much as many horse owners do). I'm SURE there are exceptions (I saw some poor treatment of animals at a Mexican circus I was backstage at). There are bad horse owners, bad dog owners, bad parents, and bad circus animal trainers. However, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

          I, too, hate getting info from the news (print or tv) or press releases. Generally, when I see something that really gets my attention I try to go look up more info and see if I can track down both sides. Or if they're quoting some study, I try to go actually read the study (as too often I've seen the news completely misunderstand or over simplify study results and miss important info).
          Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

          Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Ben and Me View Post
            I don't feel that the ASPCA should be lumped together with the HSUS at all. They do actually give out grant money for studying animal welfare issues - like the $600,000 they gave to Penn's New Bolton Center to study swine welfare.
            FWIW, HSUS also does some good. They provide education/training for rescues (and I've been to some of the training, it wasn't a radical animal-rights agenda like you might suspect). In the past, they've funded conferences for rescue personnel and animal control officers (not sure if they're still doing that... need to go look).

            There is plenty about them, though, that I don't like.
            Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

            Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by Ben and Me View Post
              I don't feel that the ASPCA should be lumped together with the HSUS at all. .

              How one "feels" is not relevant to the lawsuit.

              Every organization listed in the RICO suit first filed suit against Feld Entertainment almost 10 years ago. ASPCA included. The animal rights groups made the accusations and sued.

              In December 2009, the animal rights groups lost because the court found they had all engaged in acts of deceit, including paying the "witness" to testify to abuse that never happened.

              Read the pleadings and opinion. They are VERY illuminating. It's only 57 pages for crying out loud - read it!

              This is not really a landmark case, though. HSUS and other groups often use the same legal tactics (ESA, RICO, CITES) to pursue their goals.

              Only this time - they lost and the entity they sued is rather pissed off. Having read the opinion, I can't say I blame them.

              Like I wrote before - I doubt anything will come of it. But the judge's opinion is worth reading as it does show how these orgs mislead and manipulate the public into believing things that are simply not true.

              And if it helps at all, I don't like the circus, don't care to see elephants in circuses, and am a pretty rabid tree hugging animal welfare nut.

              I just don't see the point in lying about animal abuse to further one's agenda.

              The ends don't justify the means.

              I personally found the information in the opinion to be deeply troubling. Not surprising - but deeply troubling nonetheless.
              Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
              Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
              -Rudyard Kipling

              Comment


              • #27
                Our riding school was the winter headquarters for many animals a circus owned.
                They had their own personell taking care of the animals and they were very good.
                There was an old lion in a horse stall, other animals out in our cross country field we trained around.

                I don't see why, if some want to train and show animals in a circus setting that is any different than any other we do with animals?

                We train and show horses for all kinds of things, as each one of us so desires.
                I don't see why we should deny others the same?

                Why is racing a horse, jumping, cutting, fox hunting, watching a pasture ornament out of a window, why is ANY we do any different than what someone else may choose to do?

                I think that is the trouble here, that animal rights extremist do have a good point when they say that, we either accept that people do have a right to do what they want, bar direct abuse, of course, or we have to agree with them that ALL and ANY use is not proper.

                There is much in what we chose to do with animals and with horses I don't like, even find distasteful, but I won't deny others the right to do it.
                Not if I want them to respect what I choose to do with my animals and horses.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Somewhat off topic, but when DH and I lived overseas about ten years ago (Dutch West Indies) a mega-environmental group had two members "speak" on the horrors of oil tankers in the oceans to a *huge" crowd of locals-maybe 6 people in the audience .

                  One stops to think: "hmmm-how did they get to this island....hmmm.. could it be they FLEW in an AIRPLANE to get here that used jet fuel or av gas???? Hmmm.

                  Anyhoo, they literally, and I was there to hear it, said "we don't care if we tell lies, as long as our message gets out to the world".
                  Everyone is in bed with everyone else-that is the reality of life in the business, political, and "environmental" world.
                  Just my opinion.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Ben and Me View Post
                    I don't feel that the ASPCA should be lumped together with the HSUS at all. They do actually give out grant money for studying animal welfare issues
                    The ASPCA also gave $4000 to Jason Meduna, now convicted horse abuser.... as well as $10,000 to Catherine Peterson, who was brought up on a variety of charges from fraud to ??

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by FatPalomino View Post
                      The ASPCA also gave $4000 to Jason Meduna, now convicted horse abuser.... as well as $10,000 to Catherine Peterson, who was brought up on a variety of charges from fraud to ??

                      So they got duped and didn't do tehir homework...

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Ben and Me View Post
                        Also, for what it's worth, the HSUS does run the RAVS program which is pretty well-regarded.

                        I don't agree with about 99% of what they do (largely their misleading fundraising), but I do like this program - sends vets, vet students and techs to Indian reservations to do work - it is sometimes the only access to veterinary care that these animals have as very few of the reservations have veterinarians. I just wish HSUS would pour more of their resources into programs like this, and less into animal rights issues.

                        http://www.ruralareavet.org/

                        I'm going on one of the equine trips this summer - I'll report back if anyone is interested.
                        Please let me know how it goes. Most of those trips they charge vet students a pretty hefty fee, plus we are responsible for airfare, etc. Considering most vet students are perpetually broke, and the HSUS does have a $200 million budget and uses the Rural vet program as a source of continued fundraising, students may be getting the short end of the stick.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by FatPalomino View Post
                          Please let me know how it goes. Most of those trips they charge vet students a pretty hefty fee, plus we are responsible for airfare, etc. Considering most vet students are perpetually broke, and the HSUS does have a $200 million budget and uses the Rural vet program as a source of continued fundraising, students may be getting the short end of the stick.
                          Double dipping, eh?

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            Why bless your heart elysian*fields*farm, you pissed in your own Cheerios & appear to be thoroughly enjoying eating them.

                            BTW, Cheerio eater, your posts far, far outnumber mine when you factor in how long each has been a member & the number of posts made.

                            Hope your life improves.
                            "Police officers are public servants. Not James Bond with a license to kill."

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