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The Cost of a New Horse? (My DREAM OTTB)

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  • The Cost of a New Horse? (My DREAM OTTB)

    So, in my continuing research I am getting more and more flummoxed by the price of horses. I'm guessing I'm not alone.

    I really want an OTTB, (My first horse was an OTTB and she was just so sane and lovely). I want one that has been restarted with basic WTC and jumps. The restarting is mostly important to me because I want to know as much as possible about his/her personality under saddle before I take him home. I know there are no guarantees that a horse is sound, sane and sane after a week off! But I think a horse that's been restarted by a reputable private trainer or a reputable TB organization would minimize that risk.

    I'm a recreational rider who would be thrilled and feel very fancy if I did a couple local shows per summer. I think I'm a strong enough rider to deal with green and I can afford training.

    And I *think* I can get a horse l want for about 5k or less. It seems like horses like this range from almost free to about 10k.

    Is this a reasonable ballpark? I just can't decode the myriad and sundry prices for OTTB's with less than a year's worth of training post racetrack.

    Thanks in advance!


    Thanks in advance!
    ==================
    Somehow my inner ten year old seems to have stolen my chequebook!

    http://reriderandpony.blogspot.com/

  • #2
    I think what you are seeing is some pricing done by horse speculators.

    The peeps doing what you want-- taking an OTTB and converting it to a green show prospect are guessing at what the bottom end of that market will pay.

    To some people, $10K *does* mean very green, firesale or cheap POS. To others, $5K ought to be a riding horse suitable for a local circuit.

    So what are you paying for by not going to the track yourself? In the best of all possible worlds, you are paying for a very skilled start and a year of board. You are paying for the farm's expertise at sorting through many OTTBs before they chose to invest in this one. That year in very light work might add useful info to the PPE exam you'll do.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat

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    • #3
      Here's my amateur opinion from helping a friend shop last year:

      $0-$3.5k - on the track (can't see it canter, may not see it trot a circle, may not be able to vet it, can't see it with a rider up unless you show up to watch it breeze). The low end likely have injuries, the high end are likely very fancy and/or marketed by a trainer that has h/j or eventing connections, the majority are in the middle.

      $2k-$5k - off the track 7+ days, no longer stabled at the track (some turnout/letting down, can likely see it loose in the field, can see it canter, can handle the horse yourself, more likely to be able to vet the horse)

      $4k-$10k - off the track 60+ days. At the lower end of the price range, they may have been let down for a month, and have a month of w/t/c- still very green, maybe more training but in the 15h range. Pluses: you can actually sit on it before you purchase, can vet it, can see what the horses real temperment is like on the farm with turnout and off meds. These horses at the lower end may have healed injuries (old bows, ankles) from the track, or may be solid citizens but not more than local show potential. At the higher end, you might have more than 30 days of retraining- less green on the flat, jumping some fences, maybe even been to a show. These horses are likely fancier, >16h, ready to move on without any additional time off or significant poor behaviors/bad vices. Towards the higher end, you are more likely to find a horse whose health has been thoroughly evaluated. A month of gastroguard which a lot of OTTBs need, corrective shoeing, other vet care are all expensive- and someone asking more is more likely to have spent the money.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        This is very illuminating. Thanks so much. I really want something a little smaller, like 15.3 would be perfect. That's good to know the height I want may help my quest!

        It also seems like a lot of the TB rescue organizations do a lot of this but don't mark the prices up as much. But those horses appear to have more issues.
        ==================
        Somehow my inner ten year old seems to have stolen my chequebook!

        http://reriderandpony.blogspot.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          Be careful of some of the "racehorse retrainers" out there.

          I see a lot of "professionals" who take horses off the track for nothing and put a few days of training into them and try to sell them for big bucks. Locally I've seen them advertise horses I had seen on other TB rescue sites with injuries and then claim they are sounds. As with any rescue or "retrainers" just be careful.

          There's nothing wrong with the idea of people making a living off buying race horses and retraining them, but many times it's cheaper to get a knowledgeable person to help you pick out a horse at the track (it's a great experience by the way!) and then send it to a trainer you are comfortable with and can be a part of the retraining with for 30 or 60 days. It's a great way to be a part of the horses new life and really bond.

          I got Juice for free, sent him to training for 30 days and came out with a lovely quiet horse ready to do green bean shows that I only paid $1000 for (free + training) .

          Horses at his level of training from some of the "retrainers" were in the upwards of 5k.
          http://www.clarkdesigngrouparchitects.com/index.html - Lets build your dream barn

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          • Original Poster

            #6
            What would you have done with him if he hadn't worked out after the 30 days of training?
            ==================
            Somehow my inner ten year old seems to have stolen my chequebook!

            http://reriderandpony.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Keep in mind it costs money, takes time, and energy to get a horse off the track, let it down, get it appropriate vet/farrier care, and restart it under saddle. When you break it down it is easy to see why a 1k OTTB turns into a 5k OTTB, or a 2k OTTB into a 10k OTTB, after it has had some time away from the track.

              Now of course there are peeps who are just getting them off the track, tossing them in a field and doing nothing, and then marking them up. But the people doing it right... there is a cost, and so, it is reflected in the eventual sale price.

              Hmmm.. dunno where you are located but try these:

              http://www.mapleshadefarm.net/index.htm
              (COTHer Maple Shade)

              http://dixierumble.wordpress.com/
              (COTHer JLeeGriffith)

              Both have lovely OTTBs that have been restarted appropriately.
              We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Chaila View Post
                What would you have done with him if he hadn't worked out after the 30 days of training?
                Me?

                I would have sold him for $1500, made a little profit and put the money toward starting over! I actually don't "like" Juice very much but he's a nice little horse and worth his weight in gold, I event him and he's quiet enough that I have given beginner lessons on him. If you want him he is 15'2

                It's always a gamble when you just pick one off the track. Juice was on lay-up at a friend's farm so I got to meet him a few times before I took him.

                I've gotten 3 straight off the track and it can be risky, that's why you should always take someone with you that has track knowledge and/or has contacts at the track.

                There are a lot of people on COTH that could help you if your current trainer doesn't really "do" OTTBs.
                http://www.clarkdesigngrouparchitects.com/index.html - Lets build your dream barn

                Comment


                • #9
                  Agreeing with Flash....
                  I might find a perfectly sound youngster with loads of potential....big and pretty too for $500. But I typically only buy from race trainers I know and trust. So it wouldn't be likely that the Average Joe would even find this horse for sale. Then when I bring the horse home, he gets his teeth done, new shoes, deworming, vaccines if needed, a spa day and any acupuncture or chiropractic he may need. Plus add in let down time and restarting (which could be trails, flatwork, crossrails and or heading out to hunter paces). In my opinion a horse that I have offered for sale may only be 2-4 weeks off the track but at this point I'm probably going to list him for $2500-$3500. I'm not a typical "restarter" because I usually only have my resale horses for 4-6 weeks max before they sell, and I only do one horse at a time. However, I do find horses for other OTTB trainers (including Mapleshade and Ishi here on the board) and the time and training they put into their horses reflects in their prices. Not only that they are in areas that do not have access to horses coming off the track so readily. Their clientele buy form them because they know the horses are started correctly and that they will get a fair deal.

                  Because of my location I have 3 racetracks within driving distance so prices are much lower here than if you travel further south.

                  To the OP:
                  Depending on your location you may end up in the higher bracket for price. It seems that the further south/east you go, the higher your price will be.
                  I do think you have a reasonable idea of what you should pay for the horse you want though.
                  RIP Spider Murphy 4/20/02 - 10/31/10

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hmmm, I got mine for 1500-2500. Sounds and sane and already let down, but no retraining. Even with 4 months additional let-down and ground work and 4 months professional training, I sold the 16-2, 4 year old 100% sound mare for 3500. (Yes, she was red and that might have been the problem.... ). But it seems like you can easily get what you describe for much less than 10K..... Guess it depends on the part of the country..this was West coast...

                    Edited to add, I knew I could get them for even less if I went to the track, but I liked what this woman picked up and they were already let down...
                    Turn off the computer and go ride!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I paid $600 for one (sound, lots of starts, decent money earner for his level but ran out of conditions and his trainer needed to move him on.) That was in early December. With VERY MINIMAL work on him, I'd already ask $1500-2000 for him, based on my having paid to let him down, feed him up, and doing some minimal riding, plus just now being able to say what kind of temperament he has (angelic. I have pictures to prove it.) He was only so cheap because he hadn't sold mid-season, when the trainer was asking $1500, which, in fairness, he probably was worth.

                      A serious trainer who puts a lot of work into bringing one along? I can see $5000-7500 easy, especially for a really mentally solid one.
                      Author Page
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                      • #12
                        I agree with the previous posts that the farther south you go the more expensive they are. I paid $1500 for my guy, straight off the track. I keep close watch on comps within maybe a 200-mile radius of Charleston, SC. I have found a lot of horses are nothing special and most are barely even doing 2'6" at local shows, and they are going for 5k and up. The really nice ones you can ask $7500 and up for a fairly green broke horse.

                        On the other hand, I have a friend in the Seattle area who was looking for an OTTB, and she was finding pretty nice prospects, well-started under saddle for $3500 and under.

                        I think it mostly boils down to where you live. There are very nices one to be had, though, for very cheap prices.
                        The best is yet to come

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          There is a wide range of potential among OTTBs. Many are mentally or physically unsuited to be really great riding horses, or just are going to need a lot of time to get there. Those are cheap. One that is sound and calm and decent looking is going to be worth more money. You will also pay MUCH less in areas with a lot of racetracks around.

                          The best way to get OTTBs is directly from the trainers at the track. Usually they will be fairly honest about the horse's soundness and personality. BUUUT...not always. Sometimes they imagine that being a riding/show horse is so much less demanding than racing that they will gloss over an unsoundness. Also, the horses at the track are professionally handled, so sometimes temperament quirks are hidden by the fact that the horses are handled so carefully.

                          I think that in your situation--you want to buy one horse and have it work out--you probably would be better off looking for one that someone has worked with for a little while and doesn't show any physical or mental problems and seems to have aptitude to be a riding horse. Yes, you will probably pay a bit more.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Where are you located? Jleegriffith does a fantastic job with the OTTB's she rhabs for CANTER. They get exposed to all sorts of stuff (trails, ring, jumps, Cross country type jumps, sometimes shows). She gets some really nice ones, and could help you get the right match. PM her.

                            Mapleshade farms also gets some nice horses and does OTTB trianing. You'll need to google them.

                            New Vocations gets horses that are given some training.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Chaila, New Vocations posted about three OTTBs that need new homes--they are free of charge; they may have gotten more in by now. You just have to pay to get the horse shipped to you. Here is that thread: http://chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242041 . The chestnut is a little guy and so cute!

                              I have never gotten a horse from NV but their policy is about the most sane one that I have ever seen. Many people on this board have gotten horses from NV and speak highly of them. Call Anna to see if they are still available if you think you are interested.

                              Most of the horses that come through NV have been thoroughly checked out, evaluated and some do have some training on them. If they don't have what you want you can talk to Dot Morgan and she will find what you want. She comes from a long line of horse people and knows what she's talking about. That's where I would suggest you go to get an OTTB.
                              "Don't blame Hogg or the other teens. The adults are supposed to know better. If only we could find any." ~Tom Nichols, professor of national security affairs at the Naval War College~

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                              • #16
                                Lots of great comments on this thread. I'd only like to add that the purchase price of a horse is the tip of the iceberg. It costs as much to keep an appropriate horse versus an inappropriate horse, health issues being equal. Upkeep, farrier and vet cost surpass the purchase price of most horses quickly enough -- so look at the long picture, not the immediate cost. I would be less concerned about asking price than I would about having a horse that can do what I want done NOW.
                                Where Fjeral Norwegian Fjords Rule
                                http://www.ironwood-farm.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Chaila View Post
                                  And I *think* I can get a horse l want for about 5k or less. It seems like horses like this range from almost free to about 10k.
                                  Firstly, I agree with FlashGordon. Ever word of it.

                                  The reason you're seeing such a huge range is because frankly, people interpret "w/t/c with small jumps and a good mind" very differently. w/t/c might mean that it can achieve three different speeds/gaits but it's a hot mess to watch and to ride. w/t/c might mean w/t/c consistently on the bit, including good brakes. It often means something in between those extremes.

                                  "Small jumps" might mean anything from "jumped one six-inch log therefore we think it has potential to jump" to "can execute a small simple course of fences without panicking" to "a very good rider could probably get this horse around a 2'6" course today, in good form".

                                  "Good mind" can mean anything from "hasn't thrown anyone off--yet" to "smart and willing but sometimes uses that in ways that an adult rerider wouldn't appreciate, like by anticipating what you want" to "genuinely great mind, very levelheaded and forgiving".

                                  Anything on the lower end of that scale will be cheap/free. Anything on the higher end of that scale will be closer to the five figures.

                                  The best thing to do is find an OTTB reseller that you like and trust, call them, state your budget and your absolute non-negotiable criteria (like "must have a great mind"), and ask if they think that's do-able. Some of them will say yes, others will say no.
                                  Head Geek at The Saddle Geek Blog http://www.thesaddlegeek.com/

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                                  • #18
                                    I will chime in, as we have done many OTTB's that we have retrained and sold on. First, we take the CHANCE that people like you are not willing to take. We buy them and take a CHANCE they will work out, some do, some don't. And if you realize that this is a business for a lot of us, the ones that do have to absorb the cost and loss of the ones that don't. Simple economics. Now I am not saying that I price one with the last one that didn't work out in mind. But for the person that does this fairly regularly has to understand that, to stay in business we have to cover losses in some way. HAving siad that, the price on mine depend a lot on the amount of time I have had them and how much work put into them. Some sell fairly cheap (under $5000 and sometimes under $3500) if they haven't been here long and a lot of time, money and resources have not yet ben put into them. But those aren't the W-T-C and small jump ones. I have one now, he came off track last June and he was basically "let down" for several months. Started into LIGHT work in fall and since then work has been sporadic due to weather conditions. That however, does not mean he hasn;t been eating, seeing the farrier, being wormed, having his vaccs, coggins done etc! And the OTTB's often eat a LOT the first year until their metabolism gets to "normal". THis guy eats as much as I can give him basically! He is W-T-C and just starting little jumps, very willing and quiet, but has his "TB" moments, never mean however. He needs to learn a LOT about bending, giving to bit, jumping etc, but if it EVER stops raining and snowing he will. However his price will increase! He is JUST over $5K right now, a fair price in my opinion. I had one that we had for about a year, he came off track and straight into the show ring (in a few weeks) as his trainer/owner kept him at the famr and had him already jumpign when I got him. He sold for $16K as he was a very fancy horse already showing. Sold another 4 yr old that we bought and had for a year and a half. He was a SUPER Fancy prospect when we sold him for $18K. Was jumping around courses and starting changes. But then this past summer I sold a NICE GUY that we had one year for $3500 as he was nice, sweet and cute, but just not going to make more than a 2'6" horse. So a loss there. ANd the losses can be more than the gains especially when you look at the length of time we tend to keep them! Good luck, but realize that this, for many, IS a business.
                                    www.shawneeacres.net

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Thanks everybody! Both dixierumble's blog and mapleshades' sites have been in my Firefox bookmarks for a while. Mapleshade farm is way of the beaten track for me. But she really seems to have a knack for finding the type of horse I want. Both her for sale horses and her sold guys have me wiping drool off of my keyboard. I LOVE New Vocations as well. I'm trying to get my references together to fill out the form. I have my riding references lined up, I just need to talk to the new trainer to make sure all my ducks are in a row there. It's hard to figure out a proper vet reference when you haven't owned a horse for 12 years!

                                      All of those sites have horses on their websites in my price range that I really like and hopefully I'll find something like that when I'm ready. Not quite ready to actually start bothering people.

                                      I DO have a trainer who loves OTTB's and buys right off the track. We're in New England, but she usually buys from Mid Atlantic and PA. But since I only get one shot at this for a long time, I'm not sure if that's they way to go. I haven't ruled it out entirely.

                                      Thanks again for your heartfelt and no nonsense responses!
                                      ==================
                                      Somehow my inner ten year old seems to have stolen my chequebook!

                                      http://reriderandpony.blogspot.com/

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        If you're in NE contact CANTER NE.

                                        They know the horses, know the trainers and can give you good advice.

                                        My current OTTB came from Suffolk Downs. I took him in to foster him for CANTER and couldn't give him up! He's now foxhunting first flight and is a lovely horse. His track owners were very forthcoming about his veterinary records and he was less than $500.

                                        He had not really been restarted, but he was one of the easier ones. If you have a trainer who is experienced with OTTBs you shouldn't have a problem.

                                        Start there.
                                        Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                                        EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

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