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Accused of stealing hay WWYD?

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  • Accused of stealing hay WWYD?

    the barn I board at rations hay. Only 4 flakes a day are included in the board rate, which will not work for my 16'3 h pig of a WB. So he gets extra hay which I consequently pay extra for.

    Because my horse hoovers his hay and can eat one flake in les than an hour I have the guys put one of the 3 flakes he get at night in his stall for when he comes in and then leave the other 2 outside his stall in a muck tub for me to feed after I ride in the evenings. This is an arrangement we came up with over a year ago. And it works well. The guys usually fill the muck tub so my horse even got fat last winter.

    Today the BM asks me to put whatever extra hay I am feeding my horse on the dry erase board so she can charge me for it. WTFruitbat!. I explained to her the arrangement with his hay and told her that I was not pulling extra off of the hay cart for him. One of the trainers in the barn reconfirmed the arrangement. (and I would like to add that the BM had been part of the initial discussion over a year ago.) The BM said well just put your extra hay on the board.

    Obviously the BM does not believe me. And I am not taking extra hay. I left it for today, but I am not sure if I need to confront the BM and tell her again about the hay arrangement, or do I have one of the guys tell her about the hay arrangement?

    The other problem is that they have started feeding way smaller flakes. While a flake of hay used to be 4" wide, now it is 2" wide. I would like to bring that up, but now that I am being wrongly accused it will make me look guilty.
    Another option would be to bring some extra hay from home, but that too would make me look guilty.
    And because the flake size has gotten so drastically smaller my horse is going to need more hay. If I bump up his flakes on the dry erase board that will also make me look guilty.

    I feel like I am damned if I do and damned if I don't right now.
    What should I do?
    "Half the failures in life result from pulling in one's horse when it is leaping."

    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...7&l=eca0d15457

  • #2
    [QUOTE]
    Originally posted by Bluehorsesjp View Post
    the barn I board at rations hay. Only 4 flakes a day are included in the board rate, which will not work for my 16'3 h pig of a WB. So he gets extra hay which I consequently pay extra for.
    well I don't want to sound ugly but no proper mgnt can be made of any animal types by feeding "flakes" which vary in size and weight from hay type and baling equipment and field moisture...the horses are screwed and invariably the flakes get smaller to the padding of the BO pocketbook

    Tamara in TN
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bluehorsesjp View Post
      the barn I board at rations hay. Only 4 flakes a day are included in the board rate, which will not work for my 16'3 h pig of a WB. So he gets extra hay which I consequently pay extra for.

      Because my horse hoovers his hay and can eat one flake in les than an hour I have the guys put one of the 3 flakes he get at night in his stall for when he comes in and then leave the other 2 outside his stall in a muck tub for me to feed after I ride in the evenings. This is an arrangement we came up with over a year ago. And it works well. The guys usually fill the muck tub so my horse even got fat last winter.

      Today the BM asks me to put whatever extra hay I am feeding my horse on the dry erase board so she can charge me for it. WTFruitbat!. I explained to her the arrangement with his hay and told her that I was not pulling extra off of the hay cart for him. One of the trainers in the barn reconfirmed the arrangement. (and I would like to add that the BM had been part of the initial discussion over a year ago.) The BM said well just put your extra hay on the board.

      Obviously the BM does not believe me. And I am not taking extra hay. I left it for today, but I am not sure if I need to confront the BM and tell her again about the hay arrangement, or do I have one of the guys tell her about the hay arrangement?

      The other problem is that they have started feeding way smaller flakes. While a flake of hay used to be 4" wide, now it is 2" wide. I would like to bring that up, but now that I am being wrongly accused it will make me look guilty.
      Another option would be to bring some extra hay from home, but that too would make me look guilty.
      And because the flake size has gotten so drastically smaller my horse is going to need more hay. If I bump up his flakes on the dry erase board that will also make me look guilty.

      I feel like I am damned if I do and damned if I don't right now.
      What should I do?
      You should have gotten the hay agreement in writing and attached it as an amendment to your boarding contract.

      Outside of that, I would try to get it in writing now, or be prepared to pay out more.

      Worst case, start barn shopping.

      Comment


      • #4
        [quote=Tamara in TN;4652797]

        well I don't want to sound ugly but no proper mgnt can be made of any animal types by feeding "flakes" which vary in size and weight from hay type and baling equipment and field moisture...the horses are screwed and invariably the flakes get smaller to the padding of the BO pocketbook

        Tamara in TN
        I agree with this. Our base board rate includes at least 15 pounds of hay (there's a flat scale in the feed room) fed out over 4 feedings.

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        • Original Poster

          #5
          [QUOTE=Tamara in TN;4652797]

          well I don't want to sound ugly but no proper mgnt can be made of any animal types by feeding "flakes" which vary in size and weight from hay type and baling equipment and field moisture...the horses are screwed and invariably the flakes get smaller to the padding of the BO pocketbook

          Tamara in TN
          Oh believe me we all hate this rule and no one in the entire barn only pays for 4 flakes of hay. No horse can live on that.
          It is an annoying nickel and dime mentality. I would actually rather pay $100 more per month than pay $1 per flake per day.
          "Half the failures in life result from pulling in one's horse when it is leaping."

          http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...7&l=eca0d15457

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          • #6
            in the winter a big WB horse needs more than 3 or 4 thin flakes of hay a day, that is rediculous. If you really want to stay there and can afford it I would make it clear to everyone, not just the barn manager, that you will bring extra hay to your horse every day and that way you can control the quality. I do not think I would trust your barn manager to pay for high quality hay.

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            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by Snowflake View Post
              You should have gotten the hay agreement in writing and attached it as an amendment to your boarding contract.

              Outside of that, I would try to get it in writing now, or be prepared to pay out more.

              Worst case, start barn shopping.
              The BM is not the kind of person who puts anything in writing. The agreement that my horses night time hay not be fed all at once was like any other management talk had with the BM. "Poopsie needs the guys to pull his top blanket off when it gets warm out", " I will feed Poopsie his grain at night because I usually ride right after the guys feed." etc.

              My horse will move home for the summer in March or April, but I do ship in to ride in their arena so I want to make sure there are no hard feelings.

              Oh and I already do pay extra for hay. The hay in the muck tub is part of that amount. I just don't think I should pay extra for hay I am supposably stealing.
              "Half the failures in life result from pulling in one's horse when it is leaping."

              http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...7&l=eca0d15457

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              • #8
                Yep, hay should be fed by weight.

                When you first entered into the agreement it should have been done in writing, and you should have had the additional fee showing up as an itemized charge on your board bill.

                If you don't get billed and you don't have it on your board contract then I hope you have a whole raft of cancelled checks that show that you paid more than was called for in your contract, and be prepared to sit down with the BM and be very firm. Then create the written agreement you should have had in the first place.


                ETA just read a couple more posts - please tell me you didn't pay in cash without a receipt, never ever do that. ALWAYS get a receipt and make sure they've dated the thing correctly. Have a meeting with the BM, produce your cancelled checks (or copies) or receipts (yes I know that's a pain but so is being treated badly), and you should be good.

                ETA one more time - if you want to have a good arrangement with these people then drop the whole "stealing" or "accused of stealing" slant. You are the innocent victim of an unfortunate understanding that can be cleared up easily. BM's have feelings too, and can make things difficult for you, if you catch my drift.
                Last edited by ReSomething; Jan. 31, 2010, 12:32 AM. Reason: always remember damage control!
                Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                Incredible Invisible

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                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by trafalgar View Post
                  in the winter a big WB horse needs more than 3 or 4 thin flakes of hay a day, that is rediculous. If you really want to stay there and can afford it I would make it clear to everyone, not just the barn manager, that you will bring extra hay to your horse every day and that way you can control the quality. I do not think I would trust your barn manager to pay for high quality hay.
                  We have already gotten on her about the quality of the hay. It is not good, and now that my horse is getting even less I am pretty annoyed.

                  My horse only lives at this barn in the winter, so I do have hay at my home farm which I can bring down, but won't that make me look guilty and confirm what the BM thinks that I want my horse to have more hay and was just taking it with out paying?
                  "Half the failures in life result from pulling in one's horse when it is leaping."

                  http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...7&l=eca0d15457

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                  • #10
                    Here's how we managed this:
                    We accepted the hay ration that came with the barn, had them put it down in the stall for when the horse came in, and purchased hay by the bale from an outside vendor to make up the difference. When we picked it up from the feed store (which sells beautiful grass hay), we put it into zippered hay bags (harder to 'borrow' flakes out of and no mess bringing the bales into the barn--www.kvvet.com), brought them into the barn and stored those where our tack box was located in the barn. Then, when we wanted to up the hay, we put the flakes in a muck tub purchased for hay carrying, and brought it into the stall at night. Someone else I know bought it by the pallet, stored it at home, and brought in the flakes in Rubbermaid rectangular storage containers.

                    From the sounds of things somethings got to give here. You are either going to have to do that, or purchase your hay from the barn (which may be the BO's intent anyway), as the half-flakes your horse is now receiving are not going to hold him/her through the winter. Check your hay quality at the barn and pricing against the hay available locally before making your decision.
                    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

                    http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/...2011%20Photos/

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                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Ok for clarity.
                      Board includes 4 flakes of hay a day.
                      I pay for an additional 2 flakes of hay per day or an extra $60 per month which is itemized on my board bill that I pay for with a check.

                      On my horses stall card it is stated that he gets 2/1/3
                      2 flakes in his turnout in the morning
                      1 flake for lunch
                      3 flakes at night.

                      I have the grooms put one flake in the stall when he is brought in. The other remaining 2 flakes that I pay for are put in a muck tub outside his stall so I can feed those to him after I ride at 7:00ish.

                      The issue is that the BM, who is not on top of things and not around the barn all that much, accused me of taking extra hay today. I am thinking this is because of the 2 flakes outside my horses stall that I feed at night.

                      The BM would like for me to put any extra flakes of hay that I take to feed my horse and note them so she can charge me for them. I am not taking any extra flakes of hay for my horse, just feeding the hay that I already pay for. Hence the dilemma.

                      The fact that the hay is of poor quality and that the flakes they are feeding have suddenly gotten way smaller is really incidental to the main issue.
                      "Half the failures in life result from pulling in one's horse when it is leaping."

                      http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...7&l=eca0d15457

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Bring some REALLY nice hay from home, you know, some of that really sweet alfalfa or something? Say your horse needs a different hay for whatever reason. $20 says you will be able to find a trail of your really nice sweet hay to the BM's horse (or favorite horse).

                        A friend once said that the people who are the first to accuse and talk negative- usually are talking about themselves. It is scarily accurate.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          see, you wrote the perfect thing yourself!

                          Originally posted by Bluehorsesjp View Post
                          Ok for clarity.
                          Board includes 4 flakes of hay a day.
                          I pay for an additional 2 flakes of hay per day or an extra $60 per month which is itemized on my board bill that I pay for with a check.

                          On my horses stall card it is stated that he gets 2/1/3
                          2 flakes in his turnout in the morning
                          1 flake for lunch
                          3 flakes at night.

                          I have the grooms put one flake in the stall when he is brought in. The other remaining 2 flakes that I pay for are put in a muck tub outside his stall so I can feed those to him after I ride at 7:00ish.

                          The issue is that the BM, . . . <snip accused me of snip> >believed I was< taking extra hay today. I am thinking this is because of the 2 flakes outside my horses stall that I feed at night.

                          The BM would like for me to put any extra flakes of hay that I take to feed my horse and note them so she can charge me for them. I am not taking any extra flakes of hay for my horse, just feeding the hay that I already pay for. Hence the dilemma. . . .
                          With a little more alteration to get the subject and tenses right, this is a perfect script for the little talk you are going to have with the BM!
                          Best of luck!
                          Last edited by ReSomething; Jan. 31, 2010, 01:09 AM. Reason: a little snipping
                          Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                          Incredible Invisible

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Oh yeah, copy the stall card and have it redone so it specifically says 2/1/3 three to be divided, one in stall, two in special bucket for late feeding by owner, or whatever. God knows there probably isn't enough room but you'll have tried.
                            Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                            Incredible Invisible

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              On another note, you might need to look around for another place to truck in for the summer...
                              Originally posted by BigMama1
                              Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                              GNU Terry Prachett

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                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                On another note, you might need to look around for another place to truck in for the summer...

                                Oh I hope not, I am trying to not have this blow up into a nasty situation. It really shouldn't.

                                I might just have the head groom mention something to the BM just so we are all on the same page.
                                "Half the failures in life result from pulling in one's horse when it is leaping."

                                http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...7&l=eca0d15457

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Bluehorsesjp View Post
                                  Oh I hope not, I am trying to not have this blow up into a nasty situation. It really shouldn't.

                                  I might just have the head groom mention something to the BM just so we are all on the same page.
                                  Instead, have the head groom present and part of the discussion with you and the BM. You can tell the BM that you asked the head groom to join the discussion so that he could explain the present feed arrangement. I would make sure to be a part of that conversation between head groom and BM. AFTER that issue is cleared up, you can then bring up the other hay issue OR you can start feeding a hay stretcher or beet pulp as a segue into bringing additional, higher quality hay.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Bluehorsesjp - Put the first half of post #11 in a note to your Barn Manager. Finish it off with something such as, I am not taking any additional hay as my horse has been doing fine on the hay as we have arranged.

                                    All this talk about "flakes" and the size of the "flakes" makes my head hurt... a "flake" is not a universal measurement. In California, where I live 4 flakes of hay is quite a lot... since the average flake is 8 - 12 pounds... In other parts of the country, where they feed smaller bales, I understand that a flake is quite a bit smaller than that... furthermore, the size in inchs of a "flake" of hay doesn't necessarily correspond with the weight of a "flake", since hay can be baled tightly or loosely... so a loose 4" flake can actually be lighter than a 2" flake that is baled tightly.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I have a BIG problem with this and would not board my horse somewhere that rationed out 4 flakes of hay/day. That is absurd, cheap and very unhealthy for the majority of horses out there. That would be a big red flag to me...

                                      We include up to 6 pounds of grain a day in our boarding contract and "hay fed as necessary 1-4 times a day depending on time of year by barn staff ONLY". We NEVER skimp on the hay and as a result our boarders never take any without asking.

                                      I guess I'd ask the BM what she meant by her comments, explain the arrangement that you've been accustomed to for a year and ask if there have been any changes that you are unaware of? I'd start looking at other barns, though, just in case. Of course, I'd be looking anyway since the size of the flakes and quality of hay are already declining...once, more big red flags regarding overall care.
                                      JB-Infinity Farm
                                      www.infinitehorses.com

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                                      • #20
                                        I've been a BM.
                                        I've been a boarder.
                                        I've had/have horses at my own place.
                                        I've cared for horses at private places.

                                        Hay is frustrating for everyone.

                                        In your situation, I would feel as you do, what I mean is, I "get" wanting your horse to have hay/grass going through their system most of the time.

                                        However, before I jump on the OMG how can you deal with it bandwagon, I would have some more questions....

                                        Is the horse stalled all the time?
                                        If TO, then is there food there as well?
                                        Are they grained as well (Not equal re what it does to digestive system, but it is calories)
                                        How nutritious is the hay?

                                        As a BM, I used to go nuts when people wouldn't just LOOK at their horse to see how he/she was faring, but had some magical number of flakes in their mind. Number of flakes is maybe 15% of the equation, IMO. Placing all your onus on that just leads to trouble, IMO.


                                        I own a WB mixed with a breed (that normally needs lots of food to get heavy) that is an easy keeper. I have 24/7 TO in a VERY brutal climate, for 2-3 months a winter, she is out in weather that averages -10F to +20F (on a good day). There are days out of that range, but as many -20 sometimes as 30+.

                                        4 flakes of my hay, which are only 2-3 inches wide, would be PERFECT for her. And, that would be all she'd eat besides a bit of grain, and I mean a wee bit. Now, she's not in work, but keeping warm at those temps has to count for something. At 6 flakes a day, she's too fat each Spring. And, I mean fat, and is almost looking like she's in foal.

                                        4 flakes of hay of other hay she's been fed, she'd be thin coming out of winter, but not badly thin.

                                        My former OTTB? Well, with my current hay, 6 flecks a day would be good, 4, well, she'd be OK.

                                        4 flecks of the hay where she used to be? WAY too skinny. I spent $$$$ extra on weightbuilding grain (hated doing it).

                                        But, my current OTTB does just fine on what the WB cross gets now, he's out 24/7 too, and actually got fat this winter. I had to cut them back.

                                        And, I'm not just talking grass vs. alf mix. Some grass hay can really pack on the weight as well.
                                        "Fool! Don't you see now that I could have poisoned you a hundred times had I been able to live without you." Cleopatra VII

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