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Salamander Resort/Spa in Middleburg

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  • #41
    Just to remind everyone that Virginia operates under the Dillon rule of Government, which means that unless the VA General Assembly (GA)grants a locality the right to do something, they can't. The General Assembly is owned lock, stock and barrel by the developers. Loudoun will be paved because of the action of the current Board of Supervisors and the General Assembly. At one time Fairfax County had a fairly strict building code. The developers didn't like it so they got the GA to pass a law saying that no locality could have a stricter building code than the state one. That change halved the firewall thickness in townhouses. And lets not forget that all those McMansions being built 8 feet apart with plastic siding are fire hazards because if one catches on fire, the heat will cause the siding on the next one, and next one to ignite. No fire rules for single family homes because they are supposed to be far enough apart that they won't ignite each other. Right.

    As an aside, there was an article recently in the Post about folks in those new McMansions out in Loudoun being upset because their septic systems were not good enough to allow them to wash clothes every day and shower as frequently as they would like.

    Back to Shiela, at one point the deal was to be a new sewage plant and continued right to hunt the property. Don't know if that is still on the table.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #42
      I'm willing to go to the next meeting if I know the date. Anyone else want to go and stand up to not allow Middleburg to have this resort/spa??
      They call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease was already taken...

      Comment


      • #43
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by poltroon:
        Magnolia is right - so close to the city, you'll be needing to put together the money and think Nature Conservancy and the like to preserve it.

        If you want to oppose this project or any other, you really need more than 12 people to show up to the meetings. A packed room really gets peoples' attention. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

        M'burg and its neighbors have been under pressure for development seemingly forever. Anyone recall Disney and their failed attempt to build their vision of "America" the theme park down the road? It was largely the hunt country big names and deep pockets which killed that project.

        What is a bit different with Salamander is that it is a battle from within the confines vs. an approaching attack outside the town. Mrs. Johnson is wealthy, someone who horsey, well connected with organizations which generally kill projects likes this (e.g., the Piedmont Environmental Council), she’s presenting this as a controlled, small site-suited quaint Inn, and has lobbied hard to bring on certain townspeople into supporting it. That's a far cry form Disney who had no friends from the area and everyone was against it.

        As for opponents being a mere 6 people standing up - that is vastly untrue. If you look at the Future of Middleburg it has over 750 people against the plan and many more who don’t belong to such a group. Although after so many contentious meetings and a strong suggestion that if you are against Sheila you are a racist and the like, people in the area are now basically backing down from being so publicly – and visibly - against the plan.

        In many ways a campaign of racial guilt, anti-rich, “Middleburg needs this”, and "those who are against it are controlling snobs" etc type of feeling has worked.

        To me I don't understand why a successful but smaller scale - like the Goodstone Inn but times 2 - venture wouldn't work just as well. In the middle of January, elegant or not the rooms will only be partially occupied, M’burg is not the be all of places to be.

        Comment


        • #44
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Glimmerglass:
          Mrs. Johnson is wealthy, someone who horsey, well connected with organizations which generally kill projects likes this (e.g., the Piedmont Environmental Council), she’s presenting this as a controlled, small site-suited quaint Inn, and has lobbied hard to bring on certain townspeople into supporting it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

          As a fairly new member of the Piedmont Environmental Council, I wanted to get their take on the project. However Sheila Johnson may be connected to the PEC, and whatever the Council's past position on Salamander Inn (I should know this, but I don't) the updates on the PEC's home page suggest that the Council does NOT support this project. From http://www.pecva.org:

          How Large Is This "Small Country Inn?"
          Originally planned at 30-40 rooms, then 58, the scale of the now 120-room Salamander Inn and restaurants, conference and equestrian facilities, and 49 house development plus "other development" is out of proportion with the historic town of Middleburg, and rural southwestern Loudoun. Small country inns dot and enhance the Virginia landscape, but a large conference center and facility and residential development threatens to overwhelm the narrow streets of Middleburg and Rt. 50. Internal County documents (available at pecva.org) show the County's own concern over the reliability of the developer's traffic study. This is a public hearing for all of the County's citizens; it is important that the Planning Commission and County Board know that the County's rural character and rural economy are important to citizens.

          What You Can Do

          Contact the Planning Commission and Board of Supervisors Now
          Email loudounpc@loudoun.gov and bos@loudoun.gov or call the Board's comment line at 703-777-0115.

          Attend on September 19
          The public hearing will be at 6pm in the Board Room of the Loudoun County Government Center, (1st Floor), 1 Harrison Street, S.E. in Leesburg.

          Sign up for Email Alerts
          Stay informed about the issues affecting your life
          -----------------------
          Glimmer, this isn't meant as a contradiction to anything in your post, just as a clarification as to the PEC's stance on this issue.

          Comment


          • #45
            The Nature Conservancy isn't interested in projects like this anymore. They are more into large scale bioreserves and less into actually conserving land. And fundraising for its own sake has taken over the organization.

            Write it off.

            PEC/local land trusts are the ones to work with on these issues.

            I read that article about the septic system problem in Loudoun too - that's what you get when you build on land that isn't suited for it. The land never should have been built upon; the experimental drainfields are NOT meant to handle that much water, they require a great deal of maintenance, and do not work with the electric goes out or when the ground is wet, covered in snow or ice or frozen. You can't just shower and wash clothes and do the dishes - you have to be very very very frugal and careful with water usage.

            But heck - the Loudoun BOS knew that and let those houses be built anyway. Oops.

            I HATE THE DILLON RULE. I HATE IT I HATE IT I HATE IT.

            Glimmerglass - you have a point about the size of the project. It does seem outlandish and out of scale. There is a place called the Poplar Inn and Spa in Fauquier County which is much smaller scale, less obtrusive, less impact and traffic and the owners managed not to pi** off the entire county. It seems to blend in quite well with local farms.
            Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
            Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
            -Rudyard Kipling

            Comment


            • #46
              Windsor, no offense taken I don't believe that Salmander and the PEC are mutally in agreement on this project either.

              Yet much of the typical very public objection and readying of the troops by the PEC against a project has been muffled.

              Flashback: PEC press release 10-22-01 "Winter Wonderland Holiday Ball" & Raffle

              "We thank Sheila and Paige Johnson for their generous gift in support of PEC's community service work to protect the historic and scenic lands, rural economy, natural resources and vital watershed," said Chris Miller, PEC's President. - The Piedmont Environmental Council's "Winter Wonderland Holiday Ball"
              At Salamander Farm, The Plains, Virginia

              Comment


              • #47
                It wasn't just the big hunt country names and those deep pockets that squashed the Disney project; they got very big name people like Shelby Foote and James McPherson involved, too. IIRC, that's when it really took off. It stopped being a local quarrel and something on a much larger scale. I think the National Trust was also invovled, wasn't it? Anyways, it wasn't just the locals. It was a LOT of people and a LOT of deep pockets.

                Actually, when first approached to throw his support behind the movement, McPherson said something to the effect that the teaching of history was so terrible in this country, let Disney take a crack at it.

                Edited to add: whoops, GG, I see you do reference this as a more local issue - but I think that's part of the problem with local land/historic preservation issues, they ARE just local. Even when you have big orgs. like the National Trust to drum up the troops, it's usually only for big projects. Wasn't there a pretty good local response to preservation issues in Waterford, VA? I'm hazy on all this, my historic pres classes were too long ago!

                Comment


                • #48
                  Ah yes Glimmer, I was wondering if anyone was going to bring Disney into the equation. Yes the big money/landed gentry did defeat Disney back in the 90's with great assistance from the Piedmont Enviromental Council. It was through the efforts of the PEC, and in particular Julian and Sue Scheer that such well know historians as Shelby Foote spoke for preservation and against Disney.

                  So why haven't we heard from the PEC on this one? Or have we? Well I can only guess but I recall receiving an invitation to the PEC gala a few years ago hosted by Shelia and Paige Johnson at their Salamander Farm.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Had to chime in:

                    I believe PEC was the organization that first approached Ms. (Dr.) Johnson about buying the property (Homewood?) in the first place. She agreed.
                    www.naominickerson.com
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                    • #50
                      I will chime in about PEC here. Their gala event at Salamander Farm was well BEFORE Ms. Johnson boought the property she is now planning to develop into a spa. I believe PEC is against the over-development of this property as a resort/spa.
                      Here Be Dragons: My blog about venturing beyond the lower levels as a dressage amateur.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #51
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hbm:
                        I noticed in the WIHS Local Day prize list there is an ad for Salamander Resort & Spa coming to Middleburg Summer 2007. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        This is used a lot by developers and such... it basically is suppose to make people think it's already approved and therefore you might as well accept it. If it does work (it normally does) there seems to be less friction getting through the PC and BOS.
                        They call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease was already taken...

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #52
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Glimmerglass:
                          Although after so many contentious meetings and a strong suggestion that if you are against Sheila you are a racist and the like, people in the area are now basically backing down from being so publicly – and visibly - against the plan. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          Please don't throw any darts...

                          IMHO I cannot stand when people play the racial card. I feel it is just a ploy to get attention and pity in order to eventually get their way. They have seen it work for people time and time again. The public will back down and they will get their way. After all, there is the NAACP, the UNCF (United Negro College Fund), etc. I don't hear any other races complaining about these segregated groups. How do you think it would go over if someone tried to start a "UCCF" (United Caucasian College Fund)? I don't think it would go over very well. People would scream discrimination!!!

                          I think people as a whole need to stand up regardless of any racial card that is played... well that is if you are not against her due to her race. I certainly am not against her due to her race.

                          I am an American. A non-hyphenated american. I don't regard Ms. Johnson as any better or lesser of a "race" than American. I do not agree with whoever is playing that racial card - be it her or the press, etc. It is just wrong and people need to stand up for what they belive in... and for a lot on this thread that is to keep Middleburg from 600 vehicle trips a day, 43 special events a year... in other words... Make a stand to keep the Resort/Spa out of Middleburg regardless of whether or not someone tries to call you a racist.
                          They call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease was already taken...

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Those words "By Right development" are key. Right now, it is still back in A3. That means she could sell out and get approval for A3. 100 or so McMansions, although, not sure how the percs and wells would work out.

                            I am a member of the Rural Economic Development Council, I attend a LOT of meetings about Loudoun County Zoning, contribute to the ZORC (zoning fixes) and also go the the Board of Supervisor's meetings to speak about zoning issues.

                            The AR1/AR2 zoning map that was thrown out by the VA Supreme Court has caused a lot of problems. The Inn/Spa was an allowed use under AR1, there were performance standards to be met and a lot of hoops to jump through, but it was an allowed use. It was a mostly approved project and while I am not crazy about development, I think that Salamander Inn should be allowed. I also think that the impact of the Spa will be less than that of a bunch of suburban weenies moving into McMansions.

                            I am not sure if Sheila Johnson is one of the 49 property owners who decided to "opt in", I am surmising that she did not, but the land will never be "farmland" again. At $30-50K/acre (and up), it is not feasible and there just aren't that many people who are willing to spend the $$$ to support the "ambience" of the country.

                            I will say that being on a local government board has taught me a lot about governing, compromise and the negotiating between groups who have differing wants and needs.

                            There is a huge contingent in Loudoun, supported by the developers and several of the supervisors who feel that equestrian activities are a waste of time and land. They are getting the votes on "affordable" housing, even though NOTHING in Western Loudoun is "affordable".

                            The meetings are public, and advertised in the paper. You just have to read the local paper or check the Loudoun county gov't website for information.

                            Anyone can speak, and depending on turnout, you will be given 3-5 minutes to speak on your issue.

                            The current rezoning plan is to go with "Option 1", and for more info onthat, you need to read the newspapers or the gov't website.

                            Most people, especially horse people, seem to be bored to death if I start to talk zoning intricacies.

                            The rural economy is NOT just about horses. There are B&Bs, wineries, pick your own farms, cattle and dairy farms and yes, hobby horse farms and stables. There are Alpacas, goats, sheep, The Chili Man, and many, many others. Rural Corporate Retreats.

                            MANY of the non-developers who bought land in this county, bought it with some rural business endeavor in mind, and the county already has some pretty draconian zoning and performance standards that they have been working to meet. Many places have a "if it isn't prohibited it is ok" zoning stance, Loudoun has the opposite, "if it isn't specifically allowed, it is prohibited".

                            The wineries, they preserve a lot of open space.

                            It is NOT all about horse people. It is about the entire community and if you are not actively involved at the local level, you cannot affect what happens.

                            A lot worse things could be there besides Salamander Inn.

                            Loudoun is changing and is growing, and it is a question of will it be housing and strip malls or will it remain friendly to rural businesses that also preserve openspace.

                            Mel

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Speaking of change,, Do u all realize that morven park in leesburg may be closing down??
                              "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
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                              • #55
                                Morven Park will not be closing down. The trust was originally set up to maintain the house. They equestrian facility is not making enough money to support it, and the trust cannot justify using trust money for purposes it was not intended.

                                They are looking for (and have some possible candidates) a show management company that could lease and use the facilities for many purposes, so long as it makes money.

                                Allison Head/Looking Glass Farm posts on here and is on the board for Morven, she knows MUCH more about that than I do.

                                The land is there, there may not be horse events run there if it continues to be a money losing proposition though. The park will be there though and is not slotted for development.

                                Mel

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  My husband and I took a trip to Middleburg this summer to see if it was a possibility in case we ever want to relocate. So from an outsiders fresh perspective, I found it hard to imagine how a 120 room inn and spa could possibly be profitable. Middleburg was hopelessly charming for me as a horsey person, but without a golf course, what will people do?? I would hate to see after a ton of controversy, the inn gets built and then fails.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    God I've been out of the area so long. This makes me want to barf. I have such great memories of Middleburg. Sigh.

                                    Sheila Johnson has always driven me crazy for only one reason. She is not a real doctor, neither MD or PhD or any other kind of person who has the legitimate right and who has worked like a dog for the title. An honorary doctorate because you donated massive amounts of money to a school does NOT give you the right to call yourself a Dr....God that pisses me off.

                                    Paige is a great kid and always has been. Leave her out of this.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      New to the area...bought a small farm in Unison earlier this year, and we haven't moved down there yet from NY (plans are to do so in the spring). Already, our little corner is threatened by development that is forcing us out of Eastern LI (at least Loudoun land isn't $4M per acre yet)...but at least the developers and politicians in VA seem to be honest about their desire to rape and pillage the land--not like the ones in NY who are posing as pro-open space; it's true only insomuch as the open space provides a view for their Mega-McMansion spec houses. Do you notice that there is something worse than a McMansion? Try a super-sized version: here in NY, we used to be able to see the farm next door to us, across some acreage that was in privit (hedge, that is)--now our upstairs caretaker appartment is are eyeball to eyeball with the second floor of an 8500 sq' MegaMcMansion built on two and a half acres, with a pool, a 1200 sq' pool house (permissible accessory structure), a tennis court, and a gated driveway that isn't big enough to accomodate the landscapers that arrive three times per week to tend the grounds. If you think you have it bad now, just wait till you start running out of land...The more they sell, the deeper their pockets get; the more new voters who benefit from their policies arrive, and eventually the truth becomes that there are more of "them" than there are of "us." Hard to see any way to beat that.
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                                      • #59
                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In many ways a campaign of racial guilt, anti-rich, “Middleburg needs this”, and "those who are against it are controlling snobs" etc type of feeling has worked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        Yes, you racist controlling snobs trying to stop a luxury spa and resort!

                                        I do wonder about the popularity of a spa/resort in that area... I'd think she'd be better off closer to Shenandoah or near the coast, unless it is a day spa type thing catering to DC people. I've only been in the area once, but the scenery is stunning around Shenandoah compared to Middleburg, which is probably pretty boring (but still pretty!) to all but the horsey set. Also, it would seem to me that type of resort would be fairly "internal" in terms of money spending. I think a variety of smaller inns and B&B's would do more for the local economy.

                                        Plus, most of your spa resorts are affiliated with golf courses or some kind of natural amenity - a mountain or a beach or a lake. Hubby golfs while wifey gets a facial.
                                        The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

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                                        • #60
                                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Middleburg was hopelessly charming for me as a horsey person, but without a golf course, what will people do?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          Read this after spouting off. She figures out she needs golf to be profitable, buys more land and builds a course which needs additional housing to be profitable, which tears up that nice open riding land.
                                          The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

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