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Salamander Resort/Spa in Middleburg

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  • #21
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Anne FS:
    This quote is priceless:

    "Middleburg is a funny place," says real estate agent Phillip S. Thomas, whose firm, Thomas & Talbot, handled the sales of Ayrshire Farm to Lerner and Salamander Farm to Johnson. "People here don't take well to having things shoved down their throats."

    No s***, Sherlock. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I wouldn't be too critical of Mr. Thomas as I am fairly sure his family goes way back in the area and have been part of the fox hunting scene. His massive family estate, Ovoka, in Paris was sold in part (1,300 + acres of it) to the Piedmont Environmental Council (PEC) for preservation.

    Aside from Ms. Lerner's exceptionally poor choice of buying into fox hunt country while having disdain for hunting, she has rebounded with many positive actions in the area. She saved a manor house that very few could've afforded to restore.

    Plenty of other very welathy people have bought into the area and added zero value to the community and likely have detracted from it.

    I mean does M'burg really need yet another tourist business and additional traffic headaches? John Kent Cooke didn't really need to convert the lovely former Stephen C. Clark Jr estate into Boxwood Winery

    Comment


    • #22
      no word yet from Leesburg Today.... Anyone know what happened at the hearing?
      ~~Liz Williams, Snickersville Hounds~~

      "I'll thank the Lord the life I've led Was always near a Thoroughbred"
      -Paul Mellon

      Comment


      • #23
        No Frill - I loved that outside course. I won there every year - just let my pony go and gallop around the course.

        Middleburg has fought growth for a number of years - many areas are zoned for private property and can't be split into smaller parcels. The county has tried its best to keep the large estates and the charm of the land. unfortunatly people with money have moved out that way and are using that money to develop the area into what they think it should be, forgetting the area's heritage. I'm not naming any names - this is not just about one person - many people are responsible for wanting to develop the area and benefit from it.

        The joy of living in Middleburg was the smallness of the the town. You knew everyone. You knew the families and you knew their histories. You spoke to everyone in the restaurants. You could ride across the land, hunt in open space, and enjoy living in a natural environment without the urbanization that could be found in Fairfax. If you wanted bigger city living, it was only an hour away. The older citizens just want to keep their privacy and be able to live in a manner they grew up in. They want their legacies to have the land they have run for generations. Why should they have to accept that development is for "everyone's good?" Maybe people moving to Middleburg should accept the town for what it has always been and embrace the lifestyle. If they don't like it the way it is - there are other places to live.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by Glimmerglass:
          [/QUOTE]

          I wouldn't be too critical of Mr. Thomas [/QUOTE]

          You're right, I wasn't being critical of Mr. Thomas but my post wasn't clear. I think Mr. Thomas was being sarcastic when he said 'Middleburg is a funny place. People here don't take well to having things shoved down their throats.'

          IOW he was commenting on:

          "Lerner and Johnson say they were surprised that their pet projects were not greeted with open arms by the locals." THAT'S what drove me nuts. People come in to an area and want to change how OTHERS live and are surprised that the natives don't leap into their arms.

          Had I included that quote in my post things would've been clearer. I apologize.

          Comment


          • #25
            Do what you can to get whatever mitigation you can out of it - like easements for bridle trails, promises of open space, etc.

            I know y'all are sick about it, but it beats 2,000 cookie cutter 4,000 sq. ft. McMansions with a cutsey name like "Middleburg Country Estates."

            Go to these hearings whenever you can, and remember to vote vote vote at the local level.

            The sleepy horsey nowhere town I grew up in in California is now population 250,000.
            If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

            Comment


            • #26
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jodes: Trakehner, don't bother insulting someone like Paige..she's a good kid. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

              I did say I'd heard Paige is a good kid...but with all the money her mother spent on horses and lessons...mom couldn't buy her the talent to win the big prize. Doesn't make her a bad kid, just not the rider she wished she was.

              Jeeze people, take a pill, you don't have to be an olympic rider to notice someone else isn't one either, no matter how much money has been spent to try and buy it.
              "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

              Comment


              • #27
                Trak,

                that is so not relevant to the discussion at hand and frankly, none of our business.

                Comment


                • #28
                  I hate to even dignify this OT digression with a response, but in point of fact, the rider in question has finished in the top ribbons in a bunch of major Grand Prix this year. She can't be riding too badly to pull off such frequent good results, regardless of her livestock and resources.

                  Though as others have said, it's not pertinent to the discussion at hand.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    anywho...back to a conversation about Middleburg...

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trakehner:
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jodes: Trakehner, don't bother insulting someone like Paige..she's a good kid. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      I did say I'd heard Paige is a good kid...but with all the money her mother spent on horses and lessons...mom couldn't buy her the talent to win the big prize. Doesn't make her a bad kid, just not the rider she wished she was.

                      Jeeze people, take a pill, you don't have to be an olympic rider to notice someone else isn't one either, no matter how much money has been spent to try and buy it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      She's also not at the end of her career yet either....so Trakehner, tell us about your riding. I'd REALLY LIKE TO KNOW....and there are a lot of others around here who also would REALLY LIKE TO KNOW, hot stuff.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        We're having the same problem in Fauquier as people seeking more affordable housing (although I don't think a 400K McMansion is "affordable housing" move here and then demand the infrastructure and lifestyle of more urban areas.

                        You know, I don't mind an Inn and Spa in Middleburg. Not really. Because at least it isn't a gazillion McMansions. But the way she went about it, shoving it down people's throats, the threats to demolish old buildings if she didn't get her way - just shows that she does not care about Middleburg culture, traditions, the people who live and die there - none of it.

                        That's what I have a problem with. Whoosh into a settled old town, insult and denigrate its population, government, traditions and culture, manipulate and threaten the local government, and NOT CARE because in the end, it's all about the money. She did it, developers are doing it, the General Assembly and VDOT endorses it, and the people who suffer the consequences are the farmers, elderly, and disenfranchised.

                        It's not about foxhunting, horses or elitism and old money. It's about respect and manners. And class. None of which she has.

                        Enjoy the new treatment plant and your new neighbor. I'm not sure I could.

                        Rural communities have as much right to exist as their urban counterparts.
                        Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                        Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                        -Rudyard Kipling

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Unless I'm mixing things up, I believe the land being used for the spa was originally "saved" from another developer who had planned a large number of homes.
                          Everyone hailed Ms.Johnson's philanthropy back then, and I think it was a bitter surprise to discover there was still big development plans for the land anyway.
                          ____________________________
                          “Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.”
                          Dave Barry

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Galloway:
                            Unless I'm mixing things up, I believe the land being used for the spa was originally "saved" from another developer who had planned a large number of homes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            I'm not 100% sure about that Galloway myself but I'm pretty sure Mrs. Johnson bought this land (for sale by the estate of the late Amb. Pamala Harriman) without competition at the time.

                            Fears at the time were that such a large block of land could be at risk for development, but the land was not eminently at risk when it was acquired. A minor point and clearly a moot issue now.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moosh:
                              ... what's your take on the county government's approach to development? It's my understanding that if the county doesn't want to turn into another over-developed suburban nightmare, it can refuse to zone for certain kinds of development. From what I've seen out there lately, the county seems to have no interest in curbing growth.
                              </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              Moosh, to get back to your question....

                              From where I stand, the problem with the local gov't is that the Loudoun Board of Supervisors did try to put their foot down, and say enough is enough, we cannot support all this development and huge influx of population the way it is occurring. We need more schools, hospitals, roads, etc. to support the bigger population, but who will pay?

                              They set tighter zoning restrictions (back in 2001) and promptly got booted out at the next local re-election.

                              So then county residents (swayed by the high-dollar ad campaign financed by the developers who had been buying up parcels of Loudoun all along) voted in a new Board which is in the developers pocketbooks. (And Barnfield promptly moved out.) The battle cry for this new group has been something they call "Property Rights." The term sounds honest enough, until you realize that the intent and purport behind it is to allow anyone anywhere to subdivide their land into tiny parcels, thereby building a ton of homes. Because it is their 'constitutional right' to do so.

                              B*llsh*t on their 'property rights' - does that mean I have the right to buy up 4 city blocks in Manhattan, tear down the skyscrapers, and setup a pig farming operation in the middle of NYC? I think not..

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Getting old, probably just mixed things up.


                                Anyway, from the Loudoun-Times online,



                                Salamander Inn debate continues
                                Staff
                                09/20/2005


                                After a public hearing Monday, the Planning Commission decided to continue discussions on the Salamander Inn proposal before voting to approve or deny it. Sheila Johnson’s 120-room resort planned just outside Middleburg's town center needs approval from the Board of Supervisors to permit more than 600 vehicle trips per day and 43 special events per year.


                                Twelve citizens spoke at the commission's public hearing Monday night, six of whom expressed concerns about the potential traffic the resort will bring to the primarily rural area. The Planning Commission will take up the subject again at its next work session, and focus on the traffic studies conducted for this project. The date for the work session has not been set.
                                ____________________________
                                “Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.”
                                Dave Barry

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  If there is a lesson here, it is that property owners should educate themselves about the tax benefits of conservation easements, PDR's, charitable trusts, and other tax and land saving tools.
                                  Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                  Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                  -Rudyard Kipling

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Paige actually rides great, and Trakehner has no idea what he is talking about. Whether it's pertinent to the Middleburg discussion or not, I think the record should be set straight.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Here's what happens when counties have zoning laws: The developer sues the county to change it and wins because they have a lot lot lot more money to pay lawyers. County budgets do not include *high* priced lawyers and endless litigation.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        FWIW

                                        I think it is going to be very difficult to keep rural land rural that is one hour from a city with an extremely hot housing market. Short of putting up a fence and saying go away, you will have a tough time preventing By-Right development of land.

                                        It sucks and it is happening everywhere. Asheville NC is a great example. Lovely mountains with hiking and trails. Now the real estate guide is thicker then Charlotte's, full of "mountain estates" and "mountain homes" all peddling an exclusive outdoorsy lifestyle.

                                        Bottom line, people have money, certain places have prestige, people with money want to be in a place with prestige, and if they are spending that much money, they want things to be as they want them to be.

                                        I think there is a saying - "he who has the gold makes the rules...".
                                        The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Magnolia is right - so close to the city, you'll be needing to put together the money and think Nature Conservancy and the like to preserve it.

                                          If you want to oppose this project or any other, you really need more than 12 people to show up to the meetings. A packed room really gets peoples' attention.

                                          As for "not winning the big prize", well Meredith Michaels (now Beerbaum) never could quite manage to win the big eq either.
                                          If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

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