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Stallion attacked me... help UPDATE pg 4

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  • Stallion attacked me... help UPDATE pg 4

    Okay the former (10 days ago) stud that I'm working with attacked me tonight. I was trying to catch him, he did his usual thing where he backs up slowly and I walk forward slowly and eventually he lets me clip the lead to him, or grab his short catch rope. Instead of giving in like usualy he lunged forward, bit me, knocked me to the ground with his front legs and ran off. He gave NO warning that he was about to snap or I would have backed off. This was all in a 60 ft round pen so I don't see how he could have felt cornered but who knows. After I got up I made him trot around the round pen for 20 minutes, but I didn't really try to discipline him because by the time I got up and made sure I was okay it had been too long.

    What should I do?! Do I try to go back out and catch him again? What do I do to protect myself? I'm no stallion expert but I've dealt with quite a few and the worst they've ever done is be a little bitey or like to go up. None have ever been this down right agressive. Was this normal for a poorly trained stallion, or is this something more.
    Meredith Barlow, EqDT
    http://www.equidentistry.com
    Meredith offers seminars on equine dentistry free of charge. Call or email to set up yours today!

  • #2
    I geld any stallion that shows agression. For mares and geldings that do I figure theres a reason for horse slaughter. Theres millions of good stallions, mares, and geldings I'd rather own those.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sorry I'm no stallion expert, but you have my condolences. Be thankful you weren't hurt worse. He could've reared and come down on you.

      I don't think his behavior is acceptable, but that's just my point of view.

      What is that saying about a good stallion making a GREAT gelding.
      Veterinarians for Equine Welfare

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't know but from your description of having to go slowly to catch him and his behavior of backing up until he finally gives in would have me wary of working with him loose. Was he just gelded?

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by sketcher View Post
          I don't know but from your description of having to go slowly to catch him and his behavior of backing up until he finally gives in would have me wary of working with him loose. Was he just gelded?
          Yes, that's why I said "former, (10 days ago) stud. Meaning he was gelded 10 days ago. Sorry for the confusion. And I am wary of working with him loose... but unfortunetly I don't know any other way to catch a horse.
          Last edited by meredithbarlow; Jun. 23, 2007, 08:05 PM. Reason: I can't type
          Meredith Barlow, EqDT
          http://www.equidentistry.com
          Meredith offers seminars on equine dentistry free of charge. Call or email to set up yours today!

          Comment


          • #6
            Sounds like 10 days ago.
            I recognized with despair that I was about to be compelled to buy a horse ~
            Edith Somerville and "Martin Ross"

            "Momma" to Tiempo, Tucker and Puff, RIP my beautiful Norman 8/2012

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by Tiempo View Post
              Sounds like 10 days ago.
              ??
              Meredith Barlow, EqDT
              http://www.equidentistry.com
              Meredith offers seminars on equine dentistry free of charge. Call or email to set up yours today!

              Comment


              • #8
                A few questions:

                Is this horse yours?

                You said former stud. Was he gelded ten days ago?

                How old is he?

                If he was only gelded ten days ago then he still has enough testosterone to behave like a stallion in his system. He does not yet feel any change. If he has not been gelded then this is something to do ASAP.

                If he is an older guy then this may be more of a problem than with a younger guy. An older stallion or former stud is more set in their ways.

                He feels threatened by you invading his space. He may see it as an assault. The backing up is not a sign of submission it is a sign of avoidance. He way have felt he had to fight to get away from you. The round pen work can help with that. Let Stallions come to you rather than vise versa.

                Lastly if this is not your horse think REALLY hard about the money you are earning. Is it really worth dealing with this potentially dangerous horse? I used to take on all of the rank horses when I was younger. I turned them all into nice tractable horses. It can be done. Now, I have nothing at all to prove and am not at all interested in dealing with a downright dangerous horse. It just is not worth possibly getting hurt.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by meredithbarlow View Post
                  ??
                  I was responding to Sketcher's post, It came up after you had posted your response. I am at the mercy of dial-up!

                  Glad you were not more seriously hurt.
                  I recognized with despair that I was about to be compelled to buy a horse ~
                  Edith Somerville and "Martin Ross"

                  "Momma" to Tiempo, Tucker and Puff, RIP my beautiful Norman 8/2012

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Call me crazy but I can't imagine haveing to take rank horses to prove anything to anyone at anytime.
                    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Any stallion (or recent one) can do this at any time. Most just chose not to. Its normal behavior that we rarely see. He could do it again at any time. It does happen, but sometimes much worse--like after they knock you down and stomp on you for awhile they pick you up in their teeth and shake you too.

                      I would not work him for 20 minutes afterword simply becuase you have no idea why he did it, so you have no control over whther he will do it again. A horse in full attack mode cannot be outrun or overwhelmed by a rope or longe whip.
                      If he was recently gelded, I think thats what your post meant? You could wait in out form the other side of the fence. if he is still a stallion he may do this again or he may never do it again. Just realize on a scale of 1-10 you experienced a 5. Stallions can and do kill.
                      I love em and have nothing against them, but once you see an angry stallion you never forget it. And neither do they. Its what we forget about horses--they chose to obey us--they never have to.
                      If the horse belongs to someone esle don't go near it unless they have signed apaper saying they will pay your hospital billsand all expenses. if its yours, then geld him and wait a few weeks. Testosterone makes them do things they may not even want to do:<
                      I saw a girl get picked up, throwm to the gound, stoped on for sereval minutes, and taken out in an amblulence working with a stallion she had worked with for several years. Nobody knows why he did it, but she wasn't getting paid enough for that! He did it agin with the new girl. His bloodlines were worth preserving, I guess, but now his sons act the same way.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by county View Post
                        Call me crazy but I can't imagine haveing to take rank horses to prove anything to anyone at anytime.

                        LOL Yeah. I suppose I really didn't have to prove anything at any time either. I just really found it rewarding. I worked with al lot of really rank critters. It was nice to see them change, begin to trust and eventually become great mounts. Its a process.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by CosmosMariner View Post
                          A few questions:
                          Is this horse yours?
                          You said former stud. Was he gelded ten days ago?
                          How old is he?
                          Lastly if this is not your horse think REALLY hard about the money you are earning. Is it really worth dealing with this potentially dangerous horse? I used to take on all of the rank horses when I was younger. I turned them all into nice tractable horses. It can be done. Now, I have nothing at all to prove and am not at all interested in dealing with a downright dangerous horse. It just is not worth possibly getting hurt.
                          A few answers:
                          No he's not mine.
                          Yes he was gelded about 10 days ago.
                          He's about 6 with limited proper (if any proper) training.
                          And I agree that no amount of money is worth getting hurt, I wasn't doing this for money. I'm doing it for a local rescue who needed help with what they believed to be a feral horse.
                          Meredith Barlow, EqDT
                          http://www.equidentistry.com
                          Meredith offers seminars on equine dentistry free of charge. Call or email to set up yours today!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think I'd quit with him now, because realistically I would never be able to trust him to any degree again. MAYBE he did it because of testosterone, and a couple of months as a gelding will cure him--but many stallions go their whole lives without doing something like this. If he's been good to this point, could be something physical, like a brain tumor, so it wouldn't hurt to rule that out. But no horse is worth getting hurt for, and at least most of them will only hurt you accidentally.

                            FWIW, the only time I have seen this was with an older, retired TB stallion. He did it once (to me--grabbed me by the arm and shook me, and I weigh 180 and have handled stallions my whole life) and my dad sort of dismissed it as my being careless. I never handled him again, and it was almost six months before he did it again--to my dad--knocking him down and trying to kneel on him. Both of us were lucky not to be badly hurt, and the first thing my dad did was call the owners to come and get him. If we'd owned him he would have been put down the next day.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by CosmosMariner View Post
                              He feels threatened by you invading his space. He may see it as an assault. The backing up is not a sign of submission it is a sign of avoidance. He way have felt he had to fight to get away from you. The round pen work can help with that. Let Stallions come to you rather than vise versa.
                              Also, I know that backing up is a sign of avoidance. BUT he in the past had eventually stopped and taken a step forward, thus giving in and allowing me to catch him.
                              Meredith Barlow, EqDT
                              http://www.equidentistry.com
                              Meredith offers seminars on equine dentistry free of charge. Call or email to set up yours today!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Does he have to come in? Can you feed and water him in the round pen until that nasty testosterone clears his system? If not, can you give him powdered ace until you can put him somehwere to wait it out? He sounds feral and there may a history that led to his being "rescued".
                                Just stay safe and make sure he has water and hay, but don't feel you have to do anything you don't feel comfortable with.
                                He may come around just fine in a week or 2 if you can wait it out. You can round pen from outside the fence too. . . . . .
                                Hot sun wont kill him and as long as he has water and hay, do you need to take the risk?

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by equinelaw View Post
                                  Does he have to come in? Can you feed and water him in the round pen until that nasty testosterone clears his system? If not, can you give him powdered ace until you can put him somehwere to wait it out? He sounds feral and there may a history that led to his being "rescued".
                                  Just stay safe and make sure he has water and hay, but don't feel you have to do anything you don't feel comfortable with.
                                  He may come around just fine in a week or 2 if you can wait it out. You can round pen from outside the fence too. . . . . .
                                  Hot sun wont kill him and as long as he has water and hay, do you need to take the risk?

                                  He is not feral. Thats what the origional care takers (after the abusers, but before me) thought. I have worked with MANY ferals, and he isn't. After he is caught he's fine. He LOVES to have his head scritched, and likes pats, even likes his ears to be messed with. He's skiddish and doesn't like his legs touched so I think there has been limited proper handleing but he definitely is used to people- infact maybe in a bad way.
                                  I had been acing him orally but stopped this AM as I didn't see a difference.... DUH, I guess I'm an idiot. I will try that again tonight. Yes I can leave him alone (except for feed and water obviously) until he chills out, I just wasn't sure how much of this was to be attributed to his studness vs. was he just a crazy horse. It sounds like the consensus is this is more him being a stud with no manners.
                                  Meredith Barlow, EqDT
                                  http://www.equidentistry.com
                                  Meredith offers seminars on equine dentistry free of charge. Call or email to set up yours today!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by meredithbarlow View Post
                                    I had been acing him orally but stopped this AM as I didn't see a difference.... DUH, I guess I'm an idiot. I will try that again tonight. Yes I can leave him alone (except for feed and water obviously) until he chills out, I just wasn't sure how much of this was to be attributed to his studness vs. was he just a crazy horse. It sounds like the consensus is this is more him being a stud with no manners.

                                    Putting all the posts together, it sounds like he's woke up from a druggie dream and when he did he figured out he could be away from you...he backed up til he could avoid you no longer and then buggered....

                                    corners or not, he felt cornered in that pen with you and that has NOTHING to do with testicles but someone who learned long ago how not to get caught...make him come to you if you wish to keep handling him...

                                    not by one step by many many steps...make him work to be with you....not work to get away from you....until you have that basic thing down pat between the two of you I think you are both gonna be screwed

                                    Tamara in TN
                                    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                                    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Off to feed the little a**. Thanks for all of the advice. Its seems I didn't set him up for success, and he really didn't give me any help either. Lesson learnt glad I didn't get seriously injured. More advice from other viewpoints will be appreciated too.
                                      Meredith Barlow, EqDT
                                      http://www.equidentistry.com
                                      Meredith offers seminars on equine dentistry free of charge. Call or email to set up yours today!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by meredithbarlow View Post
                                        Yes, that's why I said "former, (10 days ago) stud. Meaning he was gelded 10 days ago. Sorry for the confusion. And I am wary of working with him loose... but unfortunetly I don't know any other way to catch a horse.
                                        I went back and read for comprehension... I though you had been working with him in the round pen. The more information you give about his history the more I worry about ever trusting him. It sounds like he was abused as a stallion? They can be so sensitive and have a long memory.. And the first time he didn't have ace in his system is when this happened? Who knows what he has been thorugh and what behaviors he firmly developed with his abusive owners. Wouldn't you just like to get your hands on some of these people for a few minutes?

                                        Comment

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