My 9 month old filly strikes out at me

[aspenlucas]

I just want to add, if any of my babies struck out at me, they would have a "come to Jesus moment". I bet they wouldn't do it again! I sure as heck wouldn't be feeding them treats!

[mp]

Babies are hard. period. No, they are not fire-breathing dragons, but I think it's foolish to jump into it feet first without experience.

True. I had a friend coaching me for the first couple of sessions with the first one I worked with. And I was a middle-aged horse nut who had only four or five years of riding under my belt.

This person "use to compete all over the country in hunter-jumpers, went to pony finals, winter circuits, you name it." And I find it hard to believe that anyone with that much experience wouldn't know what to do if a filly struck out at her, no matter how many butterflies she was expecting to fly out of said filly's derriere.

[dmalbone]

Having now gotten to read the (pasted) original post...

I think you & the filly should just hug it out.

Bwahahaha. Fantastic.

[dmalbone]

True. I had a friend coaching me for the first couple of sessions with the first one I worked with. And I was a middle-aged horse nut who had only four or five years of riding under my belt.

This person "use to compete all over the country in hunter-jumpers, went to pony finals, winter circuits, you name it." And I find it hard to believe that anyone with that much experience wouldn't know what to do if a filly struck out at her, no matter how many butterflies she was expecting to fly out of said filly's derriere.

Exactly. Many baby horse problems are just HORSE problems only in a more immature package. Someone with as much regular horse experience as her should know what to do when a horse strikes out and not have to resort to attempting to bribe with treats and running out of the pasture when things go awry. An experienced horse person would not put themselves in that position unarmed to begin with. Maybe the lack of butterflies caught her off guard and she was too stunned to respond?

[dmalbone]

...and for the record I am NOT someone who thinks that only high paid professionals should be handling babies. The majority of the time they are not terrifying maniacs like many people think. BUT... nobody should just be given a youngster and told to just have at it so they can have this prestige of saying they brought one up themselves. That's foolish. With a trainer or knowledgeable person (not a "trainer" who is absent and put you in this position to begin with) there to guide you along and answer those questions you have and to step in when things get out of hand and to protect both you AND the horse.

[Foxtrot's]

Of course young horses should be handled with people with experience, but that experience has to come from somewhere. For all the solid advice offered here, there is the usual trademark COTH gang up. Please, folks, watch the tone of your posts.

[dmalbone]

Please, folks, watch the tone of your posts.

Mom??? Is that you!?!

Of course young horses should be handled with people with experience, but that experience has to come from somewhere. For all the solid advice offered here, there is the usual trademark COTH gang up.

How do you define a gang up? So if everyone has the same opinion it's a "COTH gang up"? Where I'm from that's called a common consensus. I don't think the majority of people have a problem with people LEARNING to handle young horses, but I highly doubt that anyone will agree that strangers on the internet are the best form of education! I am ALL for the inexperienced learning to handle youngsters (OP included- more power to you once you get past the lovey dovey stuff), but in a controlled environment with someone who knows what they are doing. Do you honestly think that reading online is the correct and safe way to do that?

[cloudyandcallie]

Of course young horses should be handled with people with experience, but that experience has to come from somewhere. For all the solid advice offered here, there is the usual trademark COTH gang up. Please, folks, watch the tone of your posts.

Perhaps people could advise OP how to get the filly to stop striking out at her, instead of ridiculing her?
(Which is why I don't breed or train, I'm not a disciplinarian and I know it.)

Perhaps OP can find a good trainer to help her? I know one woman who got a PMU QH mare after her old Appy died, ended up with an unexpected foal. She didn't know what to do with him, so he ended up rearing and walking towards her. She hired Luis, the resident horse trainer to handle the training of the colt.

[Moderator 1]

There's no need to close the thread at this point. The OP may or may not be back to check in on the thread, but overall, folks have been providing their genuine opinions on the situation, so it's overall just fine.

However, avoid making comments about the OP being a troll (aboubika, sometimes someone will join the site with the purpose of getting folks riled up by conjuring up stories, etc., so other posters can get a little gun shy ), or otherwise taking the thread further down a bad path. The honest and immediate feedback this forum provides can be a little surprising for someone new.

aboubika, some opinions may not be the type of input you had in mind, but this is an open forum, so if you post a question, you're likely to get all kinds of feedback on a situation. If you're not interested in following it further, just avoid checking back in, or just take from it whatever information you find of personal value.

Thanks!
Mod 1

[dmalbone]

Perhaps people could advise OP how to get the filly to stop striking out at her, instead of ridiculing her?

I would say that part of the problem is that we are not there to see this horse. Is she striking being a silly youngster or is she being vicious? Giving a person who has no experience with ground training advice on how to handle a potentially dangerous youngster could cause both her and the horse really big problems. Just my opinion. I personally wouldn't want to give training advice (not only to her but others in that situation) because she NEEDS an in-person trainer.

[foundationmare]

OP, I don't have much to contribute than hasn't already been said, but perhaps it would be helpful for you to understand that anger, as you've expressed at least twice in your postings, won't serve you or the filly well. While I can understand having an emotional reaction to this young horse coming at you with an aggressive action, e.g. striking, pinning ears, it is not a reaction against YOU as an individual necessarily, but her natural reaction as a young horse with questionable handling in the months prior to you acquiring her. Getting angry at her won't advance your ability to work with her, and her with you.

Similarly, getting angry at COTHers who you feel are dismissing your desire and/or ability to start her "from the ground up" may charge your batteries, and that can be a positive energy, but only if the energy is channeled in a positive way that gives you guidance and support to bring your girl along to her full potential.

Some people are comfortable with youngsters, some people aren't. I've known many gifted horsemen/women who fall into both categories. For the most part, it's best to leave the training of babies with someone who totally "gets it", who isn't afraid and who is committed to making a solid citizen of that blank slate of possibility.

[naturalequus]

Onelandroad & MVP-
Thank you both. I guess I had it in my head that I wanted to do it all with her. But from the sounds of it- I need to watch him with her, study him and his actions with her so I can learn and try to incorporate them when I do start working with her again.
She is a Rhineland Pfalz Saar. Who isn't always a bad horse. She leads for me great, she waits for me to open the stall, fence, big garage door on barn, she picks up her feet, etc. It only happens out in the pasture- seems like when I take her halter off. She tried to stand up on me yesterday morning but I had a rope halter on her and pulled on it and made her back up. For now, it seems to have done the trick as this morning I didn't have a problemw ith her and she stood extremly well while I took the halter off her. Now this could be so many things- she could be understanding me not being affraid (for lack of a better way to say that) or she could have just not tried to do anything today, IDK. Her old owner said she has never done this before and that kids have been around her and fed her and she was always great. So why I'm having this problem- I don't know.
I'm not scared of her- I am confident around her, as I am with my 4 other horses. 3 of which were already started when I bought them (had been riden in round pen at a walk-trot but nothing further) and I finished them. Finished them into nothing more than a trail horse- but they are great at it, my 5 year old niece can ride any one of them. So for all of you who feel I am diving in way too deep, it's not that I don't have some experience. I have been riding for 20 years- until 5 years ago always had trained hunter jumpers and use to compete. Then when I grew up (daddy didn't pay horse bills anymore)- I bought a couple 3 year olds to have in my back yard. I just have never had anything younger than 3. And it is a big difference.
I guess at 1st I tried to treat her more like a baby (again for lack of a better description). I have since learned that she is not a baby and I have to be firm more firm with her.
So thanks for the helpful words, I guess the best thing now to do is step back- watch fiance with her, learn from their interaction, and try again when I have more knowledge on working with a filly.
Oh and mvp- I have a large pasture that we broke off a portion of it and put her in there, so she's next to the other 4 horses but not in with them. I have no other foals- just a 6, 8, 9, and 11 yr olds. Last night we did put my 8 yr old mare in with her- and that was actually really helpful to watch her interaction with her for me. She pretty much left the filly alone unless she came up to her, when she did that the 8 yr old would pin her ears, bite AT her, and the filly would trot away. Then she'd slowly do it again and this happened a couple times. They were only together for probably 30 mins.
Would it be beneficial to keep another horse with her or keep her seperated?

I have not read further than the post I am quoting, but it sounds like (at least at the time this post was written) that you are on the right track! Learn from your fiance and if you can, spectate at some clinics! Also, get your paws on whatever books you can

Foals definitely need strong leadership as well - assertiveness (but not aggressiveness) is as important (and perhaps more important, in this case) as bonding with your foal. It is important that you earn her respect - always be aware of your feet: he who moves his feet the most is the submissive one (so make her move her feet most and stand your ground - you can even get big, jump up and down, whatever you need to, to get/keep her out of your space). She is playing a game with you and testing your authority - essentially, she is being quite rude and is seeing what she can do.

As far as the treats themselves go, I base it entirely on the horse - follow your fiance's advice (or that of another pro) as it pertains to your specific case. I will feed treats to any age horse, provided they are respectful (oh, and that I remember the treats! Haha) - the minute they are disrespectful (such as striking out, invading my space, pushy with the lips or teeth), treats are revoked until I feel they are once again sufficiently respectful (it may take years for them to mature and develop sufficient respect).

This is just my opinion, but I would definitely not seperate her from the herd - she is not a fragile toy. As a disrespectful youngster, she would do best being turned out in a herd of "elders" who will keep her in line and teach her respect. That is how it is in nature and that is how (in my opinion) it should be. There are countless examples I can provide you of the benefits of a young animal being raised in a herd where they can learn to be respectful members and where they develop into balanced animals. They need to experience the discipline of a herd but also how to act in general.

[Equilibrium]

OP, these types of fillies are not for the faint of heart and as most have mentioned babies aren't fire breathing dragons, but some can turn into them.

My first to foals that I bred were angels. They were respectful and did everything that was asked of them and made me think I knew how to handle youngsters quite well. And when you spend 12 years galloping racehorses, you tend to think you won't have any issues in raising foals.

Flash forward to foal 3. When she was born I knew that this would be my keeper. Finally at 36 years of age I had the warmblood filly I waited for all of my life - yup hokie. And for the first few weeks she made it easy as she was so friendly and so much fun. That is until the day I was walking her mom in while chatting to my husband who had another mare, and bam, I was drug to the ground by "The Devil's Spawn". While laying on the ground looking at dirt I realized things were not going to be straight forward and if I didn't want to end up with a horse only good for slaughter, I better get some boundries enforced real quick. I should also mention while I was on the ground, Mr. Equilibirum heaped loads of abuse on me for treating this filly like an over grown stuffed animal. I won't bore you with all the details of her growing up, but she taught me more than any horse ever has. Fortunately I had Mr. Equilibrium to keep me focused and to stay consistent when it would have been easier to give her a pass on certain days. She's very high energy, loves a challenge, is very brave, and quite clever. She's now 4 and if I point my finger at her when she gets a bit OTT, she drops her head.

I could not have done any of this without Mr. Equilibrium. And I sure couldn't have done it with silly dreams in my head of her being everything I wanted. I love her to bits, but would she give a hoot if she ever saw me again? Probably not! That is the nature of horses and something never to be forgotten.

Terri

[naturalequus]

Why are people calling me OP? I came here looking for help to learn to deal with a baby- not advice to sell her. I am getting really annoyed with people thinking I'm some inexperienced idiot. Inexperienced with a foal- yes, inexperienced with horses no. I use to compete all over the country in hunter-jumpers, went to pony finals, winter circuits, you name it. Trained a horse from the ground up- no, trained a horse 3 years old- yes. Had a different idea what having a baby would be like- yes. Adapting my idea's of what a baby is like- yes. I am learning. My ego is not in the way as I have said I am steping back- going to watch him with her, going to learn. But more determined- yes, that isn't a bad thing. And for those of you who think she will be given away down the road- no, so stop comparing me to someone else.
Everyone starts somewhere in horses. Me- started a long time ago, never with foals. I have admited it is a different ballgame, I have admitted I had what it would be like all wrong. I am owning up to my mistakes. But I am also determined enough to see it thru, I'm not going to quit just because I've had a bad week and probably not a good start. I will step back, learn what I need to and try again more confident in myself.
As stated- negitive comments are not needed

I had ridden for years before I acquired a foal too. It was a steep learning curve and he was much like your filly - very disrespectful (he struck, bit, reared, bucked - etc over the years as we learned). I made a lot of mistakes with him however I refused to give up on him (even when, as a 3yo, I absolutely hated him and had to force myself to go to the barn to work with him)...and it eventually resulted in a wonderful partnership. I sought out a lot of help though and went to several clinics with him, where we received the help necessary to progress (I refused to send him to a trainer for fear of leaving him in the wrong hands). He is the horse who pushed me into the massive learning curve that has in turn benefitted every horse I now work with and that has increased my level of knowledge exponentially, and I would never trade anything for it. Now, he is a well-mannered gelding who is bold and fearless, but also very respectful and responsive (he is one of my most trustworthy partners whom I can ride completely bridleless). He is the horse I turn to when I need a reliable mount for my non-horsey-fiance or other beginner riders!

In short, I just wanted to say - you are not alone in this and you are doing nothing wrong. Please dismiss the rude and disrespectful comments towards you; why people feel the need to be so judgemental and harsh...not sure. Sure you are going to go through a pretty steep learning curve however this little filly - if you allow her, will teach you so much. The best way to learn sometimes is to learn by doing and you sound very committed to this. Just always make sure to put your safety first.

Definitely look at attending clinics with her - different clinicians can give you insight or teach you in a way your fiance may be unable to (from an angle he never though of, or using techniques he has not used, etc). You are definitely on the right path though - the problem is not her, it is simply that you have to gain the knowledge. Good luck in your quest!!!

Oh and PS. Definitely do not take what your filly "says" personally...earn her respect and she will behave more politely around you

[caffeinated]

How is it rude or disrespectful to tell someone that it is best to get help in a situation like this?

No one here is 'ridiculing' the OP- we are just saying that based on the information presented, we think she should get help. That does not mean that we think the OP is inept, but that handling young horses requires a certain skill set. For some people it's natural, and others need help and to learn from people who know what they're doing.

I don't think anyone here can really accurately tell the OP what to do - we're not there to see the filly, or see OP's response to it. We can't say what she's doing wrong or right. Therefore it would be in her best interest to get guidance so she can learn what to do.

It might have been helpful if the first post were clearer and included more information - maybe that would have tempered the responses a little.

Just the same, IMO a good horseman isn't the one that knows it all, but is the one that knows when to get help. I got a baby myself, thinking it would be easy. And by most counts it was, because of his personality. But at the same time, I had to learn new skills and pay a lot more attention to what I was doing. He never was aggressive in any way, but I'm sure the process would have been easier with some guidance. That the OP's filly is striking and upset tells me that guidance is even more necessary than usual in this case.

Now maybe some have said that more bluntly than others, but knowing people on here its because they've got the best interests of all involved at heart.

[dmalbone]

Please dismiss the rude and disrespectful comments towards you; why people feel the need to be so judgemental and harsh...not sure.

Seriously? Really? You think it's judgmental to warn someone about the perils of "bringing up baby" and to express concern about potential hazards or dangerous moments they might put themselves in and suggest alternate solutions to overcoming a feisty youngster? Really? Because I would hope that if I were putting myself or my horse in a sticky situation or were taking on a task that I wasn't well-equipped to handle that the COTHers would rip me a new one if that's what it took to knock some sense into me. Nobody is name-calling other than simply stating the facts, her knowledge and experience, and the knowledge and experience that she is lacking. Harsh? Maybe, but it was apparent with her deleted OP that she had her mind already made up.

[Threebars]

Well, home again home again, lets see what happened.

That before I return from work tonight:

1) the OP will have one final big blow out post.

The first post was edited away - close enough.

2) the thread will be locked

Nope.

3) The poor filly (if it does exist) will end up on CL or at auction down the road.

The Jury is still out here.

4) Some people will lament how absolutely evil some COTH posters are.

Yep.

5) Hopefully, one or two people will see beyond the 'snark' and realize that these people have GENUINE concern for both horses and their handlers.

Yep.

So two and a half out of three. I need a beer.

The best thing people MUST keep in mind (other than the old salt about 3 horse people, 4 opinions) is that the good folks of COTH are a GOLDMINE of information, even when it's not butterfly farts and rainbows. I am a far better 'horsewoman' (and more informed) for reading the information posted here, even if I don't aways agree with people.

[saje]

One thing I haven't yet seen (though perhaps I missed it) is that striking and rearing are not always signs of aggression, it's how young horses play with each other.

There are many other subtler signs that go along with each variant (play vs aggression), some you can learn to read and some which humans will probably never decipher. There are degrees of ear pinning, there are eye movements, there's nostril tension, head tilts... a humptybillion tiny signs that can give you a good clue as to what's going on between those furry little ears.

You CAN learn this, but for your safety and hers, and to avoid having to undo behaviors (much much harder than installing them correctly in the 1st place!) it really would behoove you to get GOOD professional help here.

She's not mean, more than likely she's bored. (It still is a giant no-no though!)

The #1 thing your girl needs to learn is that you are NOT to be treated like another horse. You are her safe place, but you are to be respected at ll times and looked to for guidance and direction. THAT is love in the horse's sense of things.

Much later on in your relationship things can evolve into a bit more of a 50-50 dialogue, you can possibly give her more say in what happens next. But NOT until you get many many miles under your belts.

And one other thing - if you're going to really work with horses and in the horse world, you need a pretty thick skin





.

[goeslikestink]

I am in desperate need of advice... my fiance recently bought me a just 9 month old filly as my wedding present, we got her January 13th. I was the only one to handel her at 1st because I wanted to be the one to bond with her.
January 9th I went out to her pasture alone in hope to bond with her. I had some treats in my hand that I gave her right away- as soon as they were gone she reared up and stricked out at me, hitting my hip, and continued to chase me right out of the pasture (which I know, your not suppose to back up from them but I had nothing with me to defend myself).
Since then- she has stricked out at me twice (these times my fiance- Mike, has been around). She also pins her ears back at me all the time. Mike has now handeled her a couple times and she respects him and seems to like him (never pins her ears at him)- she even chews when he is around, which he tells me is her thinking and wanting to be part of his heard.
Since last time she stricked at me (just Thursday the 14th 7am) I have got mad- I now make sure to have a rope or something with me to get after her. I chase her away from me if she runs up to me, repremand her for kicking her front feet out at the ground, etc... I'm mad now- so I'm starting to demand respect to.
But she still pins her ears back at me- I honestly feel as if she just hates me. Any advice? Mike's great at giving advice and knows foal & heard behavior- but he takes what he knows and has for granted. I know I have to be tough around her- but feeling like she hates me, is very depressing for me. This is my 1st foal and I expected a different experience. This has just been a aweful experience so far and I want to make it better. I need her to respect me and know I'm in charge but I also need (for me) her to like me and not pin her ears. I guess I don't understand why or how to fix it.
Any advice would be SO much appreciated!

your worse and biggest mistake is your feeding treats you went out there with a pile of treats and fed them to her straight away and when they was gone
she threw a trantrum and to add to that tantrum you runaway

dont feed treats dont feed grain until the horse has settled and you can master her as more often or not its food related

she doesnt respect you as shes not interested in you for you only for what you have in your pocket---
treats especally with youngsters can make a bad behaviour ten times worse so dont feed her any

have a head collar on her with a bit of bailing twine same size as you hand so when shes in the field its easier to grab hold of her,
then learn to lead at the schoulder of the horse with the horse being held under the chin with a lead rope and make her stand at any gateway before entering and once entered said field -- and count to ten before you release her in the field

bonding grooming and bonding handling horses confidently if you hesitate or show signs of lack of confidence ie runaway - lack of confidence , hestation creates doubts in horses mind confusion creates doubts in horses minds
and these doubts become fear factors
1ts is to flee 2nd is to advade you

they are dead simple to work with - once your understand that your creating the fear factor in a horse which in this case the horse has taken that advantage and used it against you
and if you let it carry on then the horse will find her strenght and use that agianst you to then you will have even bigger problems

so

be assertive - dont be a muppet --- the horse is 9,mths old what ever she learning she learning by you
be positive in the way you handle her- as in no hesitatations no handy handy stuff ie go to her head and try to put her head collar on serveral times or go to do something and she moves her head or moves off - or chase her with a rope becuase your frustrated because she wont do xyz for this just all going to make your problem worse as your sending her away from you - your creating the fear in her to re-act how she is

so be positive and direct and give her a direct signal or command
dont talk to her like a baby and coo coo and namby pamby baby stuff shes a horse and doesnt understand such crap way of talking
use your tones of voice as its your biggest asset and aid
like - if a dog brought you slippers you would praze the dog
if it sh-t on your carpet you would tell the dog off

so tones and pitches of your voice are important to a young horse when goood you praze when hurt you sooth, when naughty you say big fat deep NO

talk to the horse as you would another human, as in general conversations when grooming etc encourage the horse always with your voice

teach her to stand and wait and to pick up her feet when asked and groom her always start with lf lh rh rf work around the horse
always be in control of a horse and never let the horse antispate your moves ever


you want the horse to respect you then you sure got to respect the fact the horse is a horse and needs to be respected also

you say your mad at her as she doesnt respect you --- matey shes not being agreessive shes being defensive as you chase her away and have instill in her mind to be scared of you you have instill in her omind the fear factor of fleeing

so you change your attitude towards her, be kind be firm use your voice and dont feed treats or feed until shes doing work warranted for the feed shes getting

[mvp]

Off topic and on topic

The off-topic part.

You guys, what did the OP do in order to incur *such* wrath and contempt? I think it's out of proportion, given the crime committed.

As far as I can tell, the mere act of showing up and confessing her part in getting in over her head was the initial problem. I infer that y'all also didn't appreciate her getting slightly defensive of her good intentions at least. None of you ever did similar? C'mon.

But you didn't read carefully for *how* she got in too deep-- fiance chose the filly, she arrived a week early while her knowledgeable man was out of town, the filly (perhaps out of sorts during her first week at a new place) threw her a curveball.

You also didn't read her later responses that showed a decent amount of contrition (along with defensiveness at other points), plus a willingness to change up her own approach to managing the filly and reasonable follow-up questions.

For all the dumb-a$$ threads asking for advice about show names, hunt coat colors and such, don't you think this type has more potential value? Insofar as the vast majority of the riding population hasn't had the opportunity to work with 0-3 horses, it's great to see that topic discussed here.

'K, on topic and to the OP. I hope your fiance chose a baby with a really, really good mind to be your first one. My colt (whom I bred) was one of these.... on purpose! Despite having worked with other peoples' babies, I knew I'd still make mistakes with mine and that I therefore I needed kind, easy-going "starter horse" kind of mind in a baby in order to help my cause. He still did the crazy, stupid stuff babies do, but his nice mind really helped us out. Of course I spent the second half of his career wishing I had bred "more horse"!

If your filly does prove to be an alpha-mare in the making (watch her with other horses over time to get that sense).... if, after you get to know her, she seems to "react first and ask questions later" pay attention! These are signs of the mind your filly has inherited. These types will need more skilled and systematic handling than the easy-going, casual colts like mine. That's especially true in the beginning where you are laying the ground rules for *how* she will use that mind in connection with people and training.

So, when to really get pro help? IMO, that line is when:

1) You feel that, despite repeated efforts and all the help you can muster, you can't understand, predict and modify your filly's actions. The first rule of improving a horse is being able to figure out how they are thinking. If you can't do this, you'll often deliver the "wrong answer" and screw them up.

2) You don't have the time or facility your horse needs for their stage of development.

3) You simply don't want to the particular phase of the training.

You'd be surprised how many people with horses of all ages don't realize or admit reaching these limits.

"Take what you like and leave the rest" is always good advice for this BB.