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Question for RedLine Guy

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Anyplace Farm View Post
    I really need to work on this. And I'm a born and bred southern girl -- I really should have this down. Instead, all sorts of expletives come to mind.
    now now.....ladies never need to really swear....just slow your voice waayyyy down....and speak even softer....and as the chosen words slide from your smiling lips on your tilted head....narrow your eyes ever so slightly....


    they will get the point

    Tamara in TN
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

    Comment


    • #42
      Arnika- He lists his lenses etc. right under the photo. He has a Canon 30D.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by magnolia73 View Post
        Those were HIS photos you posted? I thought they were yours.... my god, not so hot. He must not have good equiptment as Lexinva mentioned.

        http://www.pbase.com/ratsnest74/image/77260551

        that is a photo in the stands at an indoor with a nice amateur set up. That guy looks like he is using a point and shoot in comparison.

        His equipment is fairly standard in terms of what he owns but he could do easily shoot an entire show with his 1D, a 16GB CF card, and the 70-200 lens. I think he may just have the other two for show to make it look like he's just switching gear or to make himself look more professional by having multiple cameras that he will use as needed which is something pros will do when the need arises though his choice in backup cameras leaves something to be desired. Judging from the work I see on his page, the two non-pro level cameras don't seem to be using correct settings for what he's shooting given that one is designed for portraits and the other is a general use camera but that's not surprising given that he's determined to call himself a professional without paying his dues. It looks as if he's putting up EVERYTHING he shot and not actually looking at any of it which is the worst thing you can do as a photographer though he may be doing it out of both ignorance and arrogance. You never ever put anything out in the open for people that you don't stand behind 100% and if he's standing behind the stuff there, someone needs to bring to the attention of those who are organizing the shows because they clearly are getting the short end of the stick. I don't know what exact criteria you have to meet to be selected to photograph a horse show these days but I am starting to believe it is simply the ownership of a camera and some telephoto lenses. He really could benefit from photographing some other subjects just so he could learn how to use his cameras and perhaps even a photography lesson from a real pro or two. I haven't seen him in a while as I don't attend many shows anymore (I've graduated from college, most of my horse friends are gone and none of the ones here are still riding, and my girlfriend isn't a horse enthusiast) but apparently his booming business has allowed him to upgrade his cameras a few times. I'm sorely tempted to raid my bank account and go get a new camera just to show him up but I'm trying to be a mature, responsible adult. Most of the time.
        Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by magnolia73 View Post
          Those were HIS photos you posted? I thought they were yours.... my god, not so hot. He must not have good equiptment as Lexinva mentioned.

          http://www.pbase.com/ratsnest74/image/77260551

          that is a photo in the stands at an indoor with a nice amateur set up. That guy looks like he is using a point and shoot in comparison.
          Actually, he is using nice equipment, he apparently just isn't very talented. But, anyway, I'm with everyone else. What a jerk. I don't know what I would have done. I probably would have said, "Oh, sorry" and kept shooting.
          "No, not anything goes, I said no rules!"

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #45
            Originally posted by RNB View Post
            On second thought.....perhaps he was just trying to get your phone number!!!

            I highly doubt that. But by now, I think several people have his.

            "If you have the time, spend it. If you have a hand, lend it. If you have the money, give it. If you have a heart, share it." by me

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #46
              Originally posted by gothedistance
              Read this:
              http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

              No one can restrict your right to photograph anything if you are on public land, or at a public venue. If you are on private property that is a different issue and you need the property owner's permission if they don't want photography to take place. However, if you are standing on public property and shooting something on private property, you are still within your legal rights to do so. The poparazzi works within these legal guidelines to the letter, even though at times it appears they really are infringing upon personal privacy rights.

              Horse shows are public venue. The management could not have forced you to stop whether you were taking these photos just for yourself, or with the intention to sell. They cannot even have you thrown off the property for doing so. The only thing they could have done is charge you an advertising fee if you hung a shingle up to advertise your product on the horse show grounds.

              So, the best thing you can do when approached by someone like this deadbeat, bullying individual is to just look at them, tell them they are obviously clueless of the law in regards to freedoms and rights, and walk away. Don't get in a confrontation, don't get into discussion. Just find a nice spot where you can keep taking quality photographs.

              BTW - if this guy's work is representative of the thumbnail photos posted on his website index page, he truly is a miserable photographer with bad timing and the lack of ability to position himself where he can get quality shots.

              That was a very interesting document. I am going to keep it in my bag just in case that b@st@rd bothers me again. I'll let him read it while I call the police.

              "If you have the time, spend it. If you have a hand, lend it. If you have the money, give it. If you have a heart, share it." by me

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #47
                Originally posted by gothedistance
                BTW - if this guy's work is representative of the thumbnail photos posted on his website index page, he truly is a miserable photographer with bad timing and the lack of ability to position himself where he can get quality shots.
                When was the show, Stonewall Country in Lexington, VA? Because one of the links I posted from his site on this thread was of shots he took at that show. They are all taken from the stands, which means, he was scamming shots there because he wasn't 'the official photographer' in the ring. Unless there were no other photogs there.

                Augh! I've never seen someone make some of the finest horse flesh in the Commonwealth look so bad. http://www.showpictures.net/gallery.php?gid=330

                "If you have the time, spend it. If you have a hand, lend it. If you have the money, give it. If you have a heart, share it." by me

                Comment


                • #48
                  not taking "his" side

                  but it doesn't look like he had a lot to work with from the riders (Oakhill). His pix may not be that great---but when you jump ahead of your horse...and your coo-coo is well in front of the pommel---IT IS WHAT IT IS...

                  I don't know if my hubby would know what makes a good horse shot or not. I take the pix because I know I want a certain shot. My hubby make think, "Great-I got her jumping" and not realize that I don't want the approach or the landing---but the flight of the jump !

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    You are only stealing his business if he had a viable product before you came along.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      He had the right to protect his territory. Yet when I told him I was not a professional, he should have just backed off.
                      He was an A$$hat, pure and simple.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        It's hard to see how you're "taking money out of his pocket" if he's got the time to bother you - why wasn't he shooting what's going on in the ring?

                        I'm not quite sure how I'd handle such a thing - I also shoot barnmates at shows, and sometimes even <gasp> _sell_ them the prints. But so what? I'd _hope_ the pros are doing a better job than I am, and I do know that I'm doing my barn a service when I shoot *every* fence (and the warmup, too!).

                        And yes, I guess I do feel for the pros a little, now that there's so much (more) competition, but I don't know that my shots have ever kept someone from buying a fabulous pro print.

                        Glad the pros at the shows I go to have better things to do with their time...

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          I would have been extremely upset as well. I love to take pictures at shows and races, but I'm not 100% with them. I do it for fun. Lots of my friends have taken some great shots of my horses and they give me the copies too. I love it when they do that, BUT I'm also a person that if the professional photographer got some great shots I buy them too. I was actually at a show when the professional didn't take shots of me because my boyfriend was taking photos. Smart I guess on her behalf, but she takes great photos and my boyfriends didn't turn out that well. I wish she would have, because then my bill from that show would have been close to 300 - 400 dollars. Catch 22 I guess. I've seen these outfits you mention before too, and some just hire some random kids for the day and hope for the best. I agree they should know how to take an equine action shot.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            As a photog, I can say that the guy was an a$$hole... He has no right to say that to you, legally or otherwise. If he was worried about someone taking pics of their kid/student etc, it is obvious that he is uncomfortable in his job as a photographer. Now, it would be different if you were shooting every single person that was riding and handing out your business cards...

                            A for instance for you: I have a group of ladies that I have become friendly with because I shoot them and their horses at several shows throughout the year (mostly schooling shows). One woman's husband will stand right next to me shooting pics when I shoot... he and I chat the whole time, rooting for his wife to ride a good test... Even though he stands right next to me, they still end up buying pics, and I have made some new friends...

                            Like I said, that photog you dealt with has issues... as a competant professional, a photog should have no problem with someone taking pics when they (the official photog) are there, because they should be confident in their ability as a professional photog... My 2 cents.
                            View my photographs at www.horsephotoguy.zenfolio.com

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              HA! What a twit...

                              Originally posted by Anyplace Farm View Post
                              So, I'm at a little piddly show today -- finally finding time to visit with one of my old students and to hang out with a few friends, some of whom I haven't seen in some time.

                              I'm there on the fence line playing with my new camera, which I have only used once before since I got it as a gift at Christmas (because I never have free time). Because my horse is on stall rest, I thought I'd see my friends, take some pictures, have a nice day.

                              This guy (www.showpictures.net) comes up to me while I'm sitting down erasing all the bad pictures that I just took (I'm not good w/these digitals yet) off my camera and says, "So, playing with your new camera?" How he knew it was new is beyond me, but anyway... I said, "Yeah, and I'm not very good at it." He said, "Are you planning on selling the pictures." Me: "No, just taking some pictures of some friends." Him: "Well, you know, if you share those pictures with your friends, you will be taking money out of my pocket." Me: "You know what? I'm just taking some pictures, I am not a professional, I will not be selling these, and you cannot stop me." Him: "Well, I am the official photographer for this show. I have exclusive rights." Me: "So, are you going to go to each of those parents there w/cameras and tell them they can't take pictures of their kids? Because they are taking money out of your pocket too." Him: "But they are taking pictures of THEIR kids. YOU are taking pictures of your friends. And if you share them, you are taking money out of my pocket."

                              So, I decided to take it up with the show manager, whom I've done business with for more years than this guy has been taking pictures. I said, "So and so, how many years have I been coming to your shows, taking pictures of my kids and my friends? When have you not seen me with a camera around my neck?" SM: "She has brought me thousands of dollars in business through the years so I have no problem with her taking pictures of her friends."

                              So, the man keeps pressing his point and I said, "You know what? I rarely have a free day to spend with my friends. This is my weekend, and you are ruining my day and I don't appreciate it." I swore to the man that I would not share the pictures with my friends. I told him that I respected that he does this for a living (probably not his full time job, otherwise, he's probably starving) and I see where he is coming from. However, he can't go around picking and choosing who can take pictures and who can't.

                              He had me so upset, I was shaking mad. Let's think about it. Every little kid out there has a parent with a camera on the rail. They all did. He has advertised at the secretary's stand. They know he's there. Only my friends knew I was taking pictures and anyone else doesn't know me from Adam and didn't approach me. I'm just a girl out there enjoying my HOBBY and this a$$ - 0 is telling me I can't take pictures of my friends?

                              Yes, I get his point but where is it written anywhere on any show program: NO PHOTOGRAPHY ALLOWED WHATSOEVER BY SPECTATORS -- OFFICIAL PHOTOGRAPHER ON GROUNDS? Because until they do that, yes, it is open season. There are people out there who enjoy taking pictures and it is a free country.

                              The way I see it is, if his pictures are really good, my friends will buy them. But my friends are adults and were few. There were SCADS of parents taking pictures of their kids. THEY are the ones who are in essence taking money out of his pocket. The adult divisions were thin.

                              Unless I was a professional, I don't see how this man can stop me. And no, I did not stop taking pictures. Yes, I know he has to protect his paycheck but just because I don't look like a glowing parent, he picks on me?

                              What's really funny is, when I said I was not getting very good pictures over the little 18" jumps I was shooting, he said, "Why is that?" (this is when I made nice with the man) I said, "Because there's no hang time." Him: "What do you mean?" So I showed him my camera. He goes, "Oh, well, that's a good one." I said, "No its not -- look how the pony's legs are split and I took it too soon. His back feet aren't off the ground yet." I can see why he didn't know what I meant: http://www.showpictures.net/gallery.php?gid=330
                              http://www.showpictures.net/gallery.php?gid=553

                              Finally, while I will not be sharing these pictures with my friends, I cannot stop them from visiting my personal website where I regularly display pictures from my various adventures.

                              It really pissed me off and ruined my day. So, the question is -- am I wrong to think it is OK for me to take pictures of my friends, or anyone else for that matter and do with them as I wish as long as I don't advertise myself as a professional or take money at all, anywhere, any time for my photos? I'm not a professional!!! I am a hobbyist! Is that a crime?

                              Thank you for letting me stew.
                              I would have laughed in his face. Its still a free country, and anyone can take pics. I have been to shows where there is more than one photographer no one cared.. He must be really unsure of his work, cause if he is a true professional his work would sell because of the quality.
                              I have a brand new Digital Canon Eos. The one that you can use all your super duper cannon lenses with. Its awesome. I plan on going to some shows next month and snapping like crazy. Just because ITs a hobby and I am trying to get better at it. I would like to see someone say that crap to me. I have not read a single reply just the OP's post. Sorry if some pros are offended!

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                But so what

                                Originally posted by texang73 View Post
                                As a photog, I can say that the guy was an a$$hole... He has no right to say that to you, legally or otherwise. If he was worried about someone taking pics of their kid/student etc, it is obvious that he is uncomfortable in his job as a photographer. Now, it would be different if you were shooting every single person that was riding and handing out your business cards...

                                A for instance for you: I have a group of ladies that I have become friendly with because I shoot them and their horses at several shows throughout the year (mostly schooling shows). One woman's husband will stand right next to me shooting pics when I shoot... he and I chat the whole time, rooting for his wife to ride a good test... Even though he stands right next to me, they still end up buying pics, and I have made some new friends...

                                Like I said, that photog you dealt with has issues... as a competant professional, a photog should have no problem with someone taking pics when they (the official photog) are there, because they should be confident in their ability as a professional photog... My 2 cents.
                                if you were handing out your cards?? Called free marketing. Ever been to Rolex.. theres lots of photographers they have booths etc.
                                But yes I did not read your post before I posted and I agree he is insecure about his work.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Yikes

                                  I just checked out the link someone posted of his website. His timimg sucks!!! All are still on the ground, I think I saw one over the fence!

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #57
                                    Originally posted by bosox View Post
                                    but it doesn't look like he had a lot to work with from the riders (Oakhill). His pix may not be that great---but when you jump ahead of your horse...and your coo-coo is well in front of the pommel---IT IS WHAT IT IS...

                                    I don't know if my hubby would know what makes a good horse shot or not. I take the pix because I know I want a certain shot. My hubby make think, "Great-I got her jumping" and not realize that I don't want the approach or the landing---but the flight of the jump !
                                    But what about these? My boy doesn't even let the things get off the ground before he shoots, which explains why he didn't understand what I meant when I said the 18" class was tough to shoot because there was no 'hang time'. He didn't know what I meant by 'hang time'. I had to explain.

                                    http://www.showpictures.net/gallery.php?gid=330


                                    I think I'm starting to feel sorry for him.

                                    Naaaaaah!

                                    "If you have the time, spend it. If you have a hand, lend it. If you have the money, give it. If you have a heart, share it." by me

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Even if the rider and horse aren't the greatest, it is still quite possible to take a good picture of them.
                                      "No, not anything goes, I said no rules!"

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Plainly he is insecure about the quality of his photos. If he was any good (and he's not) he wouldn't have given you a second look. Imagine James Leslie Parker wasting time hassling someone in this way!!

                                        I didn't read the thing about photographers rights yet, but I will. But even if he had an exclusive contract to be the official photographer for the show, that doesn't mean the general public can't take thier own.

                                        I take photos of my own at shows. If the pro got (ususally) better shots than me, hell ya, I'll buy them. But if he didn't, atleast I have mine.

                                        Hmm. Once at a wedding, I took a number of photos along side the photographer. My BF was in the wedding party and so I got to tag along to the other wise private photo session outside the reception hall. That photographer didn't even flinch. I got a couple of shots he didn't, include a photo of the flower girl every one else missed. And the photographer didn't make a sound.

                                        The mother of the bride snatched the proofs before the couple got a good look, so it was a good thing I was there! An artsy album was part of my gift to them, and it was the only thing they had for almost a year.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by Anyplace Farm View Post
                                          Wow, those are bad. I'm amazed any sell.

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