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Parelli training...what do you think??

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  • LOL kaluha---it appears I am the one on trial here... I agree with your points...and mine wasn't directed at you.

    There is the constant rinse and repeat of the same criticisms of Parelli-my only point is there are happy and unhappy parelli horses I am sure, happy and unhappy dressage horses, happy and unhappy WP horses...safe and unsafe in all sports, talented and untalented.

    It seems accpetable to name call anyone that finds anything positive about parelli (backyard, old lady training for beginners and those to chicken to ride) and if someone says HEY I like this stuff or maybe it isn't so bad, the war begins.

    I should not even respond I am sure-likely best to let the thread run its course-just gets old-especially one of the main ones criticizing it knows me from another BB...seems she at least would be a bit more polite on the topic. Kinda of a Bb courtesy or something.

    Perhaps I should also request the same of nearly everyone on this thread...please do not be so quick to discredit or inflame?

    Comment


    • kaluha2, I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned gadgets. Gadgets in the dressage ring, gadgets in the hunter ring; there are yahoos in every riding venue. Gadgets allow riders with poor technique to cut corners, not develop their horsemanship properly, and it's all at the horses expense. That's what truly bothers me! Then, they want to blame the horse, LOL. And you're right, it is embarassing.

      Regardless if you like PNH or not, they do try to teach you to ride without the use of gadgets. They do try to teach you to ride properly, with less being more. It isn't the only way to learn to ride, but it does work for some. I simply can't understand all the hostility towards Parelli. To each his own...why can't most people accept that?! We don't all ride/own the same breed of horse, or ride with the same brand saddle, etc., so why ALL that fuss over PNH and the people that get something out of it?

      I do Parelli and my horse loves it and me! She catches me, I don't catch her, and everytime I pull in my drive way she canters over to see me. Hey...maybe I'm not such a bad human after all!

      Savvy Mom
      -Proud Founder of the Appendix QH Clique, member of the OTTB CLique and the I Love My Mare Clique

      Comment


      • SavvyMom you hit the nail on the head as well.

        That is what I try to make my point in these discussions...why do people make it personal?

        I have stated I like Parelli-so when people respond it is only for the ignorant I then take it personally.

        It is no different than if I made a personal attack on all dressage or hunters or whatever-there would be a mutiny on the BB...but bring up Parelli and people feel free to make rude comments-I often wonder if these same people would walk up to me on the street and say the same things.

        It isn't the be all end all-it IS common sense-so why criticize the method? Criticize the marketing all you want if you don't like it-just keep the nasty comments about those that like the methods off the threads. It just isn't nice and tends to make people defensive and bristle-y.

        Comment


        • Oldgraymare - it's a losing battle. I and others tried on at least one other thread to correct mis-information about what certain "tasks" were with regards to PNH and it was totally ignored, all the time.

          The deal about galloping into a trailer - it's NOT about galloping into the trailer. It's about going in the direction YOU dictate, at the pace YOU dictate. It's NOT about having the horse so hyped up about loading that it has blinders on to anything or anyone else. Heck, it's not even about the trailer! I guarantee that any one of those folks you see loading their horse at a gallop, or from the roof of the trailer, could stop their horse on a dime with just a look or perhaps a wave of a hand.

          Oops, Oldgraymare, there I go, trying to correct mis-information!

          Part of the issue with the horses you see on most of their shows on RFD-TV is that the horses are going through the learning process. They are there because they either have not had respect for humans (hence the sullen look when asked to actually do something and pay attention) or because their respect needs to be heightened. Nobody on this board can tell me they have not had their happy-go-lucky horse pin their ears because they simply woke up on the wrong side of the pasture and simply were not in the mood. The TV segments are not meant to be "I will teach you how to do X." and are never touted as such. They are showing you different progressions of the program, what CAN be accomplished, and yes, working through some issues that in the end will lead to better respect from your horse and a more willing, THINKING partner.

          Are there people who over do, do it wrong, do it half way, and do it for-freakin-EVER? You bet. For someone to be "working" on Level 1 for more than a few months is certainly going to annoy their horse to no end.

          Why doesn't someone go have this exact same conversation regarding Clinton Anderson? He does EXACTLY the same things, just calls them something different. He does the "squeeze game", the "porcupine game" the "hide the hiney" the "sideways game", you name it, exactly the same. But hey, he's young, cute, and has an Aussie accent - I guess that makes him better Dennis Reis is exactly the same as well, just calling things by different terms. He even sells the same equipment and *gasp* has 3 different levels of DVD sets for at-home study!

          If people are a "devotee" to PNH, to the point where everything else is wrong and they have blinders on to the rest of what's going on in the world, that is a problem with the person, not the program. Name any other discipline where you don't find those people. And yes, there are "devotees" who spend their entire lives playing Level 1 with their horse for 3 years and never get on them and then go on about how other people do things wrong when they ride or lead or groom or brush their horse in a way that's not Parelli, and yes, that's VERY irritating to anyone, but again, that is a problem with the person, not the program.

          Parelli is not about producing a show-ready anything in the first 3 levels, which is what most people getting involved get to. It's about producing a horse who is capable of moving on to whatever discipline he is destined for in a more emotionally stable frame of mind. Being Western-oriented, it's only natural that the "professional" levels of PNH are currently geared towards Western disciplins. That happens to be changing, with dressage coming right on its heels. Nobody who has gone through the 3 levels expects to have a finished GP dressage horse! They expect to have a horse who has the foundation to go on to learn GP movements.

          People don't have to show to enjoy riding. Why does someone think a person can't be all that good if they don't show? Some people got so fed up with the show scene, of whatever discipline, that they just went back to enjoying riding their horse and improving the relationship between them. Where's the harm? Whether or not they ride with a helmet is totally beside the point. Their choice.

          Someone mention poorly developed backs on PNH horses - hmmm, all the ones I've seen CORRECTLY worked through the program have VERY nicely developed toplines.

          "Jumping picnic tables is a cool thing?" - oh c'mon, and eventers jumping MUCH scarier/dangerous things is?

          kaluha2, your last post is perfect Everything you said could be applied to every single discipline. But, hunters, or dressage, or eventers, or whomever else, don't get bashed like NH does (or Parelli in particular) even though there are SCORES of people who are going through the discipline-specific "program" and doing it wrong, or claiming it's the be-all-end-all to the discipline, or who jump all over anyone who dare to say "there's a better/different way" to do something or *gasp* even a different discipline to practice! Parelli/NH is no different, so I don't understand why it's so heavily bashed, often for things it isn't, not even for what it is.

          Oh well, I'm going to bed now
          ______________________________
          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

          Comment


          • "LOL kaluha---it appears I am the one on trial here... I agree with your points...and mine wasn't directed at you."

            LMH: You could not/do not offend me. I know you have enough "common sense" to keep things civil. I very much am the sort to just smile and nod all the while trying desperately to understand the "disciple like, follow blindly attitude of some."

            "Perhaps I should also request the same of nearly everyone on this thread...please do not be so quick to discredit or inflame?"

            Just in case if you have forgotten, the title of this thread is: " Parelli training...what do you think??

            It is not: " Tread lightly so LMH doesn't get her feelings hurt."

            The OP asked, we gave our opinions, it is your choice to agree or not, afterall, you are also giving your opinion in response to the OP.

            "It is no different than if I made a personal attack on all dressage or hunters or whatever-there would be a mutiny on the BB...but bring up Parelli and people feel free to make rude comments-I often wonder if these same people would walk up to me on the street and say the same things."

            If you revert back to some of your comments, I feel you would find exactly that, attacks. It is all in the delivery. Again that "common sense thing".

            " But, hunters, or dressage, or eventers, or whomever else, don't get bashed like NH does (or Parelli in particular) even though there are SCORES of people who are going through the discipline-specific "program" and doing it wrong, or claiming it's the be-all-end-all to the discipline, or who jump all over anyone who dare to say "there's a better/different way" to do something or *gasp* even a different discipline to practice! Parelli/NH is no different, so I don't understand why it's so heavily bashed, often for things it isn't, not even for what it is."

            JB: Other disciplines are bashed all day long. For instance,"eventers don't do real dressage, EQ riders only pose, dressage riders are old DQ housewives," and that's only scrapping the surface. I wonder how many dressage/hunter/eventer/riders that have done without to give to their horse, and have worked extremely hard through the years, would find LP's comments nice.

            This statement here is one example why the Parelli devotee gets bashed: "anyone who dare to say "there's a better/different way" to do something or *gasp* even a different discipline to practice!"

            You have not been reading the other threads. This is not a new discipline, it is not a different way or even a better way. It is "common sense" and has been around forever. So, calling it "new, different, or better"
            is laughable at best.

            I am not so thrilled with the Aussie either---but he supplys me with a chuckle. JL and his new wife are, for the most part boring and I am tired of seeing her horse with pinned ears.

            Do I need to continue my displeasure with all of them? I don't think so----it's not nice.

            There are those that get much pleasure in following these NH people and using their programs. I don't find this objectionable.

            As stated before, I can think of a few that would benefit greatly by using this stuff. Is it dressage---hardly.

            Does it help those with tough unruly horses? Yes
            So would consistant sound work.

            Do others follow blindly in a cult like fashion---yes, and they are laughable too.

            If you feel the need to dance with your horse by the moonlight then go for it. I have better things to do with my Saturday night. LOL!

            If placing a name on a game makes this more worth while---good. Whatever it takes to get someone interacting with their horse.

            I'd like to wish all of you (even the Parelli "nut jobs") a very Merry Christmas and a healthy and prosperous New Year.

            Comment


            • Merry Christmas Kahlua2 Very well written!

              Comment


              • <span class="ev_code_RED">++QUOTE:
                "Someone mention poorly developed backs on PNH horses - hmmm, all the ones I've seen CORRECTLY worked through the program have VERY nicely developed toplines." END QUOTE.++

                </span><span class="ev_code_PURPLE"> The stable had regular Equine Chiro appoints scheduled as a service to clients. I had started training a few horses at the barn and giving their owners riding lessons. Due to how dramatically the horses improved over the next 3 months, all but one horse no longer needed the chiro, and she was impressed with the entire muscling and toplines of the horses....</span>

                <span class="ev_code_BLUE">That said....3 PNH people also boarded there also... the three PNH people came to me, showing me their horses toplines and asking for help. They were poorly developed. Now let me say, they were no worse than many horses from other disciplines, and because these owners worked with their horse so often and so closely, they noticed. (all the PNH people I know are very attentive to their horse's condition and spend a lot of time bonding with their horses)</span>

                <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Please hear me when I say it was not a problem unique to PNH, in fact in one case it was partly the saddle and the position in which it was placed on the horse-too far forward and the rider was sitting nearly with most of their weight on the cantle. It was a cheap western synthetic saddle that was probably a 15 or 16 inch seat when it should have been an 18 inch seat.</span>


                <span class="ev_code_BLUE">It is not a problem with PNH, I'm simply observing that if LP is going to knock dressage, you would think she had some better way of developing the topline of the horse, if they are so horse Savvy, then their horses backs shouldn't be tough and have muscle atrophy. And I will tell you I have seen much worse in hunter horse... much worse by far. And if you say their backs are developed correctly, can you point me to how back development is addressed? Because I don't think it is and all I'm saying is, next time you have a chance-for the sake of the horses- put it in the suggestion box. The PNH marketing program can reach a huge stage, by passing this on to PNH you could help educate the masses and give many horses back relief- while you are at it, could you mention pinchless bits? I have personally converted many people over to this inovation, though Pat could tell more folks than I could, that is for sure.</span>
                ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
                www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke

                Comment


                • <span class="ev_code_RED">++QUOTE "But, hunters, or dressage, or eventers, or whomever else, don't get bashed like NH does (or Parelli in particular) even though there are SCORES of people who are going through the discipline-specific "program" and doing it wrong, or claiming it's the be-all-end-all to the discipline, or who jump all over anyone who dare to say "there's a better/different way" to do something or *gasp* even a different discipline to practice! Parelli/NH is no different, so I don't understand why it's so heavily bashed, often for things it isn't, not even for what it is."END QUOTE++</span>

                  <span class="ev_code_BLUE">Not only does it get bashed, it get bashed by PP and LP* LP even goes so far as breed bashing+! I will find the link to a quote if you want= she was bashing Trakehners big time. She bashes dressage major big time.</span><span class="ev_code_GREEN">So don't be surprised when she get some backlash. And yes, from a previous post, all horses pin ears at some point, it is just if it is consistantly done, where you should double check if the horse is happy or not. I think people doing consistant work with their horses through a program is great, it needs some tweeking, and then it would be even better! Almost to the point that one could recommend it, in fact there are people I would recommend it to if the safety were higher and the horses were happier.</span>
                  ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
                  www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke

                  Comment


                  • I think some of you missed my point on the "bashing" comments. Yes, every discipline has followers who cannot say a nice thing about another discipline, I don't disagree there. I just meant that NH seems to invoke a super "I've seen freak followers therefore the whole thing must be filled with freaks" mentality that doesn't seem to exist elsewhere (in general, there are always a few). That's what gets people riled up. That and saying "I despise Parelli (or NH in general) because they lunge the horse to death on a teeny circle" when that statement (or pick any number of other statements) are just wrong. I have said this before but I'll say it again - dislike it for what it is, not for what it isn't, and nobody will have a problem with that.

                    I HAVE been reading the other threads, I never said this was new or different or better. Like others have been saying, it IS common sense, NH'ers never claims to have invented this (well, maybe some do, but all the big names I hear always say they didn't) they just present it their way in a way they feel helps people learn. Because face it, it's mostly about teaching the people to teach the horses.

                    Merry Christmas to everyone too
                    ______________________________
                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                    Comment


                    • JB,
                      Very well said.

                      Personal attacks and name calling are uncalled for here. It's just ridiculous.
                      Life is short, do it now. www.dleestudio.com
                      OTTB's
                      My CANTER cutie, Steely Dan - IL
                      My Exceller cutie, Ace (aka FiftyThreeCards)- NY

                      Comment


                      • Some of my scientist friends were sitting around last night. We started discussing the inability of young people to read these days. My work with Scouts ages 11 to 18 brought up the conversation with me saying that kids seem to be less capable overall every year including and in direct proportion to their ability to read. Someone brought up the question of how many books does one have to read before becoming a "good" reader. Everyone thought that around 1000 books was probably the minimum number required.

                        So in light of this idea, how many hours do you think one needs to spend around horses-not on their backs but just dealing with them-to have a good feel for doing things with horses such as ground handling, loading, and teaching manners on the ground? I think around 5,000.

                        It seems like the Parelli's appeal to people who are not comfortable dealing with horses. I wonder how much time around horses those who think the Parelli stuff is great have spent handling horses. Also it looks to me like the majority of "horse people" these days board a horse somewhere and go to ride maybe 1 to 5 hours a week and so have little experience with handling horses on the ground and teaching them to be good citizens. Not criticizing, just speculating.
                        www.HistoricHousePreservation.com

                        Comment


                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom King:
                          I wonder how much time around horses those who think the Parelli stuff is great have spent handling horses. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          I've been handling them for 30 years Owned for 15 years.

                          But you're totally right in the vast majority of horse people are "part timers". They know their horse (maybe) and are scared to handle others, or don't do it well. And yes, those sorts of people are attracted to NH because it seems to be an easy way out. Then they discover it's not (and get hurt or get smarter) or they are scared to continue and spend forever in (Parelli) Level 1
                          ______________________________
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                          Comment


                          • Tom King-I will answer you question as well

                            I have been around horses about 25 years (my gaw-ed time flies ) and have owned my own farm since 97...I have spent this time raising and starting young horses...and before that years of showing at least 2 weekends a month.

                            Though I will agree many drawn to PNH are beginners-those tend to stay stuck in Level 1...however my experience has found many with horse experience travel through the levels pretty rapidly-and have the desire to keep improving and expanding.

                            I have met several PNH followers that are very good riders and good horseman....and I have met many that are not...

                            But I have met many hunter riders that are good and many that are not...dressage as well, western as well and so on and so on.

                            I would think anyone new to horses would look pretty uncoordinated and "beginnerish" no matter what his or her chosen method of learning is.

                            Comment


                            • Now HERE's a thought----all beginners are beginners and look like beginners indeed---maybe the reason so many people think ALL parelli people are beginners is that darn carrot stick...kind of like a Scarlett "A" branded on your chest?

                              Other beginners are simply sitting in backyards looking like fools in private!

                              Comment


                              • I think the difference, in horse sense so to speak is that MAny old time horse folks have started riding when they were small children. I was 7.. GAWD I'm almost 47. I think things you learn as a child are burned into your brain. It becomes second nature. Children, especially young ones learn quickly and never question. Just an observation. I cannot begin to imagine how many hours I have spent around horses. Most of my life. And on a daily basis. So many varied situations from a groom for standardbreds as a 14 yr old to an A circuit Groom to a barn Manager of a show barn, to a Polo Groom, Yada Yada Yada. As in anything we undertake the more exposure and variety we have in a given area the more comfortable and confident we are in said area. Many of the NH followers are never going to get that kind of variety. Just my Humble opinion. OK Well its Christmas eve, God bless all of us and our wonderful horsies, no matter what discipline!

                                Comment


                                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sannois:
                                  Many of the NH followers are never going to get that kind of variety. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  Neither are most hunter riders or dressage riders or WP riders or even most pleasure backyard trail riders

                                  Merry Christmas to all
                                  ______________________________
                                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                  Comment


                                  • <span class="ev_code_RED">Are there any Competitive Trail people on this BB? I havent seen any yet, though will keep lookin'</span>
                                    ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
                                    www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke

                                    Comment


                                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So in light of this idea, how many hours do you think one needs to spend around horses-not on their backs but just dealing with them-to have a good feel for doing things with horses such as ground handing, loading, and teaching manners on the ground? I think around 5,000.
                                      <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Great observation. I would offer 5,000 hours of being exposed to all/many styles, methods and outcomes would make for a great education.

                                      5,000 hours with one style makes you knowlegedable in that style.

                                      Comment


                                      • Well I guess I consider myself very fortunate for all the varied experiences I have had in my life! It has served me well.

                                        Comment


                                        • Not competitive trail riding but I do endurance riding. A PNH rider, Tracey Falcone, finished the grueling 100 mile Tevis Cup Ride this last summer, bridleless. Pretty fantastic.

                                          Comment

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